Topic
WoW is becoming too easy.
How is giving up on endgame raiding making me a bad player? Like I said before it's too time consuming, but above all I grew bored of it. I've spend 4 years hardcore raiding during Vanilla and TBC, more then most can say. And I grew tired of it. Now I would like to enjoy other aspects of the game, but they provide no challenge. And that's where the problem lies. |
|
How is giving up on endgame raiding making me a bad player? Because you ask for more just because you set your rib too low. Now I would like to enjoy other aspects of the game, but they provide no challenge. And that's where the problem lies. 6 years of experience of a game makes it easy. It wasn't so in the beginning. As you said, "is becoming too easy". Its always been the same, its just that after time we get much knowledge and things seem more boring- |
|
That's the thing. It's going in circles. First it's about raids being too easy and LFR being a stupid addition, and then it's about questing and leveling. Surely I'm not to blame for that confusion?
Either way. Name a list of difficult things in Vanilla that made you enjoy it, that had nothing to do with raiding and was able to be done by everyone if they wanted. I am not saying that didn't exist, but I just want your ideas on what it is especially that you miss, personally. One rule to this is that things that are just a grind or horrible boringly time-consuming/time sinks don't count. Only things that are fun and challenging to you. 'Cause tedious and repetitive != fun. The stage is yours. |
|
Story quest: Learning the lore of the game, knowing who you fight and why you fight them
Exploring: Going in to higher level zones, just the thrill of knowing every mobs might kill you if they see you. Grinding the rep to your finaly getting that item you so wanted to get for so long Class quest (absolutly loved the quest chain to get my pally and lock the lvl 60 mount and not to mentioning the legendary quest for mages... tada! you get new water oh and polymorph nagas in to baby sheep) Group quests: (loved the part when you finaly where able to kill that elite after dying multiple times, just to be satified that you where able to solo it) Community: When you knew who where the hard core raider/pvp'er and you looked up to them and wished that one day you where able to be there too. The ding! The thrill of getting new talents and new spells, just to see that you can blast mobs a bit faster, then the last time you tried. Instances: When you needed a tank and a healer to actualy do them and there where no "gogogogogogog" because you knew that without a CC you might actualy kill the tank or wipe the group. This is what I miss about wow... This was what made wow fun to me. Not the end game raiding. Yes I've raided, but mostly because out of respect for my guildies and my friends. Gear? pah! I've passed on more gear, then actualy got some, because to me raiding isnt about getting loot, but about doing something together with friends. I've been on beta and had a look around and it made me sad. Everything which I held dare about wow is basicaly gone. I totaly agree with you Jeane, this game has become to dull now and that makes me wanna cry :( |
|
Edited by Jeane on 06/05/12 14:57 (BST)
That's the thing. It's going in circles. First it's about raids being too easy and LFR being a stupid addition, and then it's about questing and leveling. Surely I'm not to blame for that confusion? First of all I want to say that Vanilla WoW was far but perfect. I will never claim it was. Classes were unbalanced, dungeons took hours and hours to complete and so on. But they have gone too far with making changes to make this game more accessible and whatever there trying to achieve. The amount of effort you to put into something, determines the fine line between fun and utterly boredom. And for me, Blizzard has crossed that line some time ago. Also I’d like to state that: Adding more challenge to the game does NOT automatically mean it has to be more time consuming. It can satisfy everyone. So heres a list you asked for: - CC in dungeons, tactics, communication between players to prevent wipes (thus, overall difficulty in dungeons) This doesn’t mean you’d have to spend hours to complete one, blizzard can simply shorten the runs. - Having a useful role within a group, where people actually rely on your skill and abilities (for instance they need your CC, buffs or leadership skills). Obviously today it doesn’t matter what level of skill you have, or what class you play. Everyone is the same, everyone can be replaced within a minute. - Epics being rare - Chain mount quests (the feeling when you finally obtained yours, was epic) - Having to explore flightpaths, instead of having instant access to every zone - Being able to do orange/red quests, to raise the bar when you’re bored (removed in cata) - Groupquests (so fun if you manage to solo it) - Class quests (getting that unique weapon or ability specially made for your class) - Having to level a hunter’s pet (gives a feeling of realism and satisfaction when you trained it), or at least bring back the levels of loyalty, which they also removed. -Having to travel towards an instance to enter it. Nowadays most people haven’t even seen 40% of the content, such a waste. - Having to explore the map. Now these are all things that were reality during vanilla and TBC, and they do not make the game annoying or extremly time consuming. On the contrary, they add a sense of adventure, thrill and realism. Which makes it epic. And what if SOME things would take you a little longer, is that really so bad? Would you rather have everything handed over to you on a plate, then feeling a sense of pride when you finally managed to complete something? |
|
People thinking they know everything about millions of individuals make me laugh. |
|
|
If the game is too easy, then by all means stop playing and find something that's challenging. But perhaps it'd be an idea to actually clear the most challenging content in a game before calling it easy. Herp a derp a hurr durr.
WoW is fine, EVERYTHING becomes easy as you learn how to handle the basics of it. Same goes for all other games. |
|
It's interesting how every time it's mentioned that wow is easy they say "well you didn't clear hardmode". Raids may or may not be considered easy, but the rest of the pve game has no challenge. Where is the solo player challenge? Where is the 5 man challenge (yeah, mop stuff....what am I to do until then)?
|
|
I forgot one point:
- attunement quests for raids, loved those!! Also I miss the world PvP, I'm not a Pvp'er but I did enjoy attacking a horde city every now and then. Man, that was fun. Even if we wiped, still had a blast. Why on earth blizzard made the capitals so heavenly guarded these days, I would really like to know. |
Early Cata, CC was indeed essential for fresh 80-85s. The majority whined, and they nerfed the content. Then outgearing came.
There's a reason I get a raid place every single week, and it's not simply based on throughput.
Heroic is the new Rare Epic. And Heroic pieces are fairly rare on the whole.
Totally agree with this - While I first started early WoTLK, I remember spending god damn ages grinding for the mats for the quest to get my Charger. Felt so proud after I got it.
Eh, I just find that to add a little bit of time to questing. I can't say I agree with having every flight path available at the start, but I just don't feel it that big an issue either way.
I've heard a lot from both sides of this - That when they had a group quest, even in TBC and Vanilla, they couldn't find a great deal of people to help out with them. I like them, and I agree - I wish there were harder, 5+ Group Quests. Closest I get is Knucklerot and Luzran.
I hated Happiness and Loyalty on the pet, that's why I never levelled one. I just thought it was a little bit of an annoyance. The pet is a DPS weapon, and having to tend to it is just an irritant. Levelling the pet, I feel, was just like levelling weapon skills.
It sounds nice in theory, but what used to happen was: Two people go there, and summon the rest. As before, they were going to have this as a requirement for Cata - You had to have visited the entrance to be able to queue but they got rid of it.
What stops you now? Because I quite often like to have a fly and see what I see. The Mushroom-Faerie Dance in the Ghostlands, at every 4th hour for example.
Elsewhere, or artificially made by you - This is an MMO don't forget. PvE content is not that challenging, barring end-game but then that is a challenge to work towards - And HC Endgame is damn challenging.
If I had to guess, I'd say griefing on PvE servers. They should have just made guards powerful on PvE Servers, and kept them the same on PvP - Everyone is happy then no? |
|
the people blizzard is targeting for there game, will be seeking guild to join in mop
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3915743/Mega_Bloks_Summer_2012_World_of_Warcraft_Product_Line_Revealed-30_03_2012?page=2 |
|
Ok i`m back because a friend of mine said it was a laugh and hes right....this htread was about other challenges than raid but time and again the fanboys (sorry but thats term i`m gonna use) are using the age old hc raid arguments....which was not that OP started the thread on.
SO STOP BRINGING UP THE RAIDS AND TALK ABOUT THE OTHER STUFF!!...or is it that the op is right and the rest of the game is to easy and you can`t argue it? :P Some of the ppl that are saying the game is not easy that the playerbase is better is a lot of crap, Blizzard have made the game easier for the simple reason MONEY!!!! don`t believe anything else its all about money, mass appeal means more players for players means more money its as simple as that. Bring back class quests Proper Group quests mount Quests Bring back the fact you have to explore so ppl actually see the content Atunments for dungeons make ppl work a bit their rewards and for the love of god stop handing out epics like sweets in a sweet shop bring back CC make classes more unique (seems like everyone has fears and stuns these days) Are just a few of the things i can think of at this time but i`m sure theres loads more that others can think of. |
|
Basically, when Cataclysm was released, the universal goal in WoW became this;
Get to level 85 as soon as possible. To achieve this, all quest chains will provide a decent amount of EXP and reward to encourage players to follow them. The quests are quick, so as to reduce the time it takes to get to level 85. The difficulty is low, so that there's no need to wait for hours asking for help in General chat, where chances are the responses will fall into the harassment category which is never pleasant to new players. The Random Looking For Dungeon system has been granted a substantial EXP boost plus a very nice Superiour Item to encourage players to use them. This allows for quick leveling through instances that are, for the most part, clearly layed out with helpful pointers to the bosses' locations. Battle Grounds have also gotten a substantial EXP boost and offers the first real challenge for new players as they'll no longer be playing against predictable NPCs, but potentially also veteran players decked out in heirlooms. Once they reach level 85, players' iLevel should be high enough to start doing Random Normals which should supply with the appropriate iLevel for them to start doing Random Heroics which should supply them with the appropriate iLevel to start raiding. And that's basically become the goal. Get to level 85 as soon as possible. Start farming PvE so you can start raiding. Or start farming PvP so you can get a high ranking arena team. The immediate, unfortunate downside to this system is that everything until end-game PvE/PvP is singleplayer which rarely if ever gives you the feeling of playing with other people, which is what us old school noobs who have been QQing since 2006 gets angry about. When we hear MMO, we want there to be an M for Multiplayer. **Warning, boring nostalgic melancholy ahead** The highlight to me about WoW when I truly fell in love with it was in the Barrens in 2005. I was a complete n00b and simply couldn't manage to get close to the quest kill I needed before getting swamped by other NPCs until a random player the same level as me came over, asked if I was on the same quest as him, which I discovered I was. So we teamed up, two warriors, helped each other through the quillboar with bandages and kills and managed to get to our destination where a brutal fight ensued, but where eventually we were victorious. And then we continued to quest together for the remainder of the day. This was the first person I put on my friends' list and really gave me a feeling of what Multiplayer was supposed to be about. And I liked it. |
Ok i`m back because a friend of mine said it was a laugh and hes right....this htread was about other challenges than raid but time and again the fanboys (sorry but thats term i`m gonna use) are using the age old hc raid arguments....which was not that OP started the thread on. WB Banknbeans ^^ |
. I know exactly how you felt. Epic moments. And no, this not only 'pink nostagia' as many claim. It's a classic example of how socialising with others makes the game more fun. |
|
Thanks Jeane...and the war goes on :D
|
|
Group A: We dont wanna spend entire week on WoW, so make 90% of the game (lvling, dungeons, etc, etc,...) as easy as possible so we can start raiding and get our free epics as soon as possible. (BS imo) BTW, in case u didnt notice, raiding IS time consuming.
Group B: We dont wanna spend entire week on WoW, so make 90% of the game challenging again so we have something to do thats not so time consuming. (Were i am situated) On top of that cata has a bad raid mechanism (doing same raid in 3 modes, gear worthless when next patch comes out, no sense of progress) and LFD (and RF) ruined the immersion in the world. Those 2 things put together makes a bad expansion for me. The ppl saying OP is whining and he should stop playing, right back at ya: If u dont like lvling, grinding and everything that comes into play, WHY ARE U PLAYING AN MMORPG???????? THIS IS NOT AN FPS!!!!! |
|
I concur, leveling was one of my favourite parts of the game, it was hard, it was challenging, you didnt know where you were on the map so you had to figure it out... Now its all gone, recruit a friend and easy questing and maps have ruined it... I mean maps now tell you where Flight Paths are even if you haven't explored it, Flight Paths = Towns. Towns = now you know where to hand in your new quest. Its too easy, the gear is too over powered, I remember when if you had more then 3 enemies against you, your screwed... But now... Well lets just say my level 45 Mage can kill 5 NPCs of his level.
|
|
|
Group A: We dont wanna spend entire week on WoW, so make 90% of the game (lvling, dungeons, etc, etc,...) as easy as possible so we can start raiding and get our free epics as soon as possible. (BS imo) BTW, in case u didnt notice, raiding IS time consuming. As a matter of fact I am quitting until MoP comes out. Depending how good MoP is will decide if I will rejoin. |
