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Hierlooms were fine in WotLK, cata ruined the talents which have made abilities scale out of control.

Giving rogues shadowstep at 10 instead of 70, penance for discos, aimed/explo shot for hunters etc.

Remember it's lvl 70 abilities at 10 which is the bane of low level pvp and all thanks go to dev team for coming up with that smart idea.

Hierlooms were fine in WotLK, cata ruined the talents which have made abilities scale out of control.

The talent changes made the issue worse and we all know MoP will bring changes to the talents wich leaves the loom problem untouched.

(Oh and PLEASE no revisionism about Heirlooms not being an issue during WotLK, it was one of the most often recurring topics on the pre-cata Forums - even more than Heirloomers complainting about 'AV Twinks'/Expansion Capped Twinks)

QFT

The talent changes made the issue worse and we all know MoP will bring changes to the talents wich leaves the loom problem untouched.

I personally think MoP low level battlegrounds will be far worse then cataclysm. Have you not seen some of the abilities some classes now get a 10, when they get their amazing passive talents now at a lower level, have you seen the talent tree for some classes it's insane... Feel so sorry for new players entering battlegrounds.

The talent changes made the issue worse and we all know MoP will bring changes to the talents wich leaves the loom problem untouched.

I personally think MoP low level battlegrounds will be far worse then cataclysm. Have you not seen some of the abilities some classes now get a 10, when they get their amazing passive talents now at a lower level, have you seen the talent tree for some classes it's insane... Feel so sorry for new players entering battlegrounds.

Well yeah, i agree with you there i was merely talking about hope and stuff that it will be better then it now is, but i fear for the worse.

Hierlooms were fine in WotLK, cata ruined the talents which have made abilities scale out of control.

From what I remember Hunters were still retarded at low levels, and heirloomed players still wrecked those without

Hierlooms were fine in WotLK, cata ruined the talents which have made abilities scale out of control.

From what I remember Hunters were still retarded at low levels, and heirloomed players still wrecked those without

I bet to differ. Blue items on the same Ilvl are as powerfull as heirlooms.

From what I remember Hunters were still retarded at low levels, and heirloomed players still wrecked those without

I bet to differ. Blue items on the same Ilvl are as powerfull as heirlooms.

You are entiteled of your opinion but facts state otherwise. There is a search function if you use it is entirely up to you.

Sorry but this has to be done:

It's low level PvP; Nobody Cares!

You level the way you level, if you hate being killed in 1 shot, then stop pvp'ing to level, go quest & dungeon instead, don't try and say ban something because of its apparent overpoweredness, that's kinda sad.

From what I remember Hunters were still retarded at low levels

Hunters have been retardedly OP below level 30 for the past 7 years.. heirlooms have nothing to do with that.

Also this is true:

You level the way you level, if you hate being killed in 1 shot, then stop pvp'ing to level, go quest & dungeon instead, don't try and say ban something because of its apparent overpoweredness, that's kinda sad.

Just gear up for leveling bg's if you want to do leveling bg's. Whining about twinks, heirlooms, and whatnot just because YOU are a lazy baddie is just sad. You don't expect to do well in max level bg's if you're using green crap 10 levels below you do you?

Pve dungeons, that way -->

The talent changes made the issue worse and we all know MoP will bring changes to the talents wich leaves the loom problem untouched.

I personally think MoP low level battlegrounds will be far worse then cataclysm. Have you not seen some of the abilities some classes now get a 10, when they get their amazing passive talents now at a lower level, have you seen the talent tree for some classes it's insane... Feel so sorry for new players entering battlegrounds.

Not surprising - the same people are in charge, and others had to bear the brunt of their failings - yet very disappointing.

There was some earlier, similar news from 60-64 Twinks that had copied their toons in the Beta, would be nice if for a change they took notice of such things (though admittedly Beta's nowadays are drowned by non-testers).

Though no doubt we'll see ''It's not the Heirlooms, Heirlooms were fine during Cata, it's the MoP Talent change' revisionist crap plastered next year or so.

Equally non suprising perhaps (same with the 'equal to Blues' nonsense, like others have said: SEARCH, that myth has been debunked for ages now, good luck finding e.g. caster weapons that come even close before Outland & the Vanilla 60 Epics, The Shattering is an appropriate term in so man yways)

06/05/2012 07:59Posted by Siedel

Whining about twinks, heirlooms, and whatnot just because YOU are a lazy baddie is just sad.

Whatever your personal feelings may be, that doesn't take away the fact that Twinks were removed because of posing similar issues, even though 'old skool' Twinks actually DID use Gear every toon of that level could use -unlike Heirlooms, most notable the rediculous Head ones.

As Vaneras explained back in May 2010:

We want everybody to have fun in the battlegrounds, and that includes those people who do not twink their characters... and getting steamrolled again and again by twinks is just not fun. Allowing twinks to play in the same Battlegrounds as regular players would be unfair for those who are levelling their characters for the first time, and normal players in general should not be punished for not having the time or resources to spend on gathering the best in slot equipment and top enchants for their low level characters.

http://woweuarchive.yg.com/thread.html?topicId=13516702439&sid=1&pageNo=3

So yes, levelling Battlegrounds were designed so that people could just jump in without much preperation, that was the whole idea behind it.

The 'lazy baddie' card may have flied when there was no XP in Battlegrounds - they were quite argueably a minigame on their own - but the XP-Patch made them a full part of the levelling experience, one Twinks would impede upon yet Heirloomers are continued to being allowed to impede upon.

With of course the greatest 'irony' (hypocrisy is of course a more appropriate word) that many of those Heirloomers are alt-levellers that complained about Twinks themselves, even when they had been removed from all but one Battleground (AV) in two brackets (then 51-60 and 61-70) that only regularly 'popped' in just two Battlegroups (the one with Draenor in it and my 'home turf' Misery) - unlike is the case with Heirloomers, which have been fouling up all Battlegrounds in practically all Brackets in all Battlegroups (now Regions) since the XP-Patch

(and before in a sense, as making Twinking ask less and less commitment means more and more problematic twinking, and WotLK was a motherlode even compared to TBC, though of course Cata would be even worse)

So in a sense Blizzard should just find the (to quote the term) 'testicular fortitude' to have a consistent policy, and balance Heirlooms better by making them unEnchantable, operate at 5 to 10 levels lower than they currently are (ie 'Greening them up') and/or placing the same marker on Heirlooms as reaching Level Cap and Locking a toon's XP do.

There already is a system that prevents Deleting a toon if he has an heirloom in his mailbox (insert crack at target audience of Heirlooms) so already there seems to be a way the system spots Heirlooms in place.

The 'lazy baddie' card may have flied when there was no XP in Battlegrounds - they were quite argueably a minigame on their own - but the XP-Patch made them a full part of the levelling experience, one Twinks would impede upon yet Heirloomers are continued to being allowed to impede upon.

Actually, now that you get XP from bg's (which is a good thing) and that bg's are more "part" of the game, the "lazy baddie" card is applicable more than ever before.

Why do the lazy scrubs expect that they can enter a bg in their crap gear because they are too lazy to get proper items? They are just sponging free XP off the people who have made the teeny tiny effort to gear up, so they indeed are lazy.

And concerning the power of heirlooms? Despite whiners saying they are more powerful than blue items, I recently leveled an alt, and stopped using heirlooms around level 50+ because "normal" items were far superior at that point. And even at lower levels similar level blues are pretty much the same, with the weapons being the main exception in many cases. So nerfing them wouldn't really make any sense (and about the enchant, the enchants start sucking after you get past level 30 or so due to lvl 1 restriction.. so nothing wrong there).

Like said before: it only makes sense if a completely new player would complain about getting oneshotted... but then again, he'd get oneshotted at low levels even if there were no looms in the first place... and come to think of it, I've never seen a new player complain about bg's before max level (not in gchat, forums, /trade, nowhere).
Anyone else (ie. an alt leveler) whining about this is just a lazy baddie.

Look, heirlooms made me level another two characters, so I'm thankful for that and I don't want them removed or banned.

But honestly they are ruining it for new players. Nothing sucks more when entering PVP for the first time in a game you barely understand and get destoryed in exactly one second by some guy who has a main.

Twinking was removed and thank God for that. It was killing low level PVP. Herilooms might not be doing the same, since a lot of people have them, but there are plenty of new players who don't.

Give new players something to be able to at least stand up to heirlooms. A buff, temporary heirlooms, something to make them want to come back rather than leave upset.

Can i ask you a question Siedel if you still have any twinks and playing locked bg?

If you want everyone to be on equal footing regardless of time invested in the game, go play CS.

This is an RPG. Character advancement is what defines it, and gear is an essential part of that.

Can i ask you a question Siedel if you still have any twinks and playing locked bg?

I stopped twinking in early wotlk, way before the locked brackets were implemented iirc, cos I wanted to level my twinked chars.

I recently rolled a mage (tons of fun, but gets instagibbed by hunters) which is (mostly) twinked+loomed at level 19 with XP lock on atm, all my other chars have been at max level now for quite some while.

This is an RPG. Character advancement is what defines it, and gear is an essential part of that.

Also this. Gear is the main thing that matters in this game, and that goes for leveling too.

06/05/2012 14:08Posted by Siedel

instagibbed by hunters

You need to arcane barrage harder/quicker.

06/05/2012 14:36Posted by Arcanewins

You need to arcane barrage harder/quicker.

With 4 secs cd? Can't even survive autoshots for that duration.

I'm playing frost (for what it's worth with those 6 talent points lol). Can even kill flag-carrying healers solo with lucky shatters.

[quote]
Also this. Gear is the main thing that matters in this game, and that goes for leveling too.

Gear us the main thing that matters in this game? Oh how about we put all those nice arena rating requirements back on all the gear then. No more free gear for everyone.

If you want everyone to be on equal footing regardless of time invested in the game, go play CS.

This is an RPG. Character advancement is what defines it, and gear is an essential part of that.

Pff, don't make me laugh.. time investment. You are leveling an alt in an 8 year old game and look you are level 11 ???? Seriously, if you invested time in this game, you would allready have 10 level 85s on your main server and you wouldn't have any need and room to level an alt like me and many others.

Yeah time invested benefit... right. Sorry but I just hate newbs who shout nonsense like this on these forums. According to your logic i would have more benefits as i started in classic and invested alot more time then someone who started in wotlk, but i don't see it.

What y'all doing without realising is using a sugardaddy wich is a part of twinking without actually aquiering gear on the toon itself. This has nothing to do with character advancement but account/server advancement if you look at boa. You are twinks aka the people who don't want to play on equal terms in battlegrounds aka the griefer kind, rotten apples and annoying others over and over wich blizzard doesn't really want you to do according to the quote i will repost:

We want everybody to have fun in the battlegrounds, and that includes those people who do not twink their characters... and getting steamrolled again and again by twinks is just not fun. Allowing twinks to play in the same Battlegrounds as regular players would be unfair for those who are levelling their characters for the first time, and normal players in general should not be punished for not having the time or resources to spend on gathering the best in slot equipment and top enchants for their low level characters.

source: http://woweuarchive.yg.com/thread.html?topicId=13516702439&sid=1&pageNo=3

If y'all boa-heroes actually started to pvp at level 10 for your looms i would have had respect for you but not in this sugardaddy/twinking way. Sadly blizzard will make the gap even bigger with those new looms comming with MoP and its pretty much the opposit of the quote above. Blizzard rather wants to destroy their game instead of making pvp fun for all and more competative, we have boa's here as proof that they want to screw up their game pvp wise below classic/tbc level cap.

I don't understand it anyway. You all want this game to be better and more fun right? for everyone? why can't people see that this is the wrong way to reach this goal. It's also pretty much the reason these threads are popping up since wotlk and there can't be enough of them if you ask me.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2098161008

If y'all boa-heroes actually started to pvp at level 10 for your looms i would have had respect for you but not in this sugardaddy/twinking way.

It ain't that hard, I actually "grinded" the honor for my Exquisite Sunderseer Mantle in ~15 bg wins (and probably the same amount of losses) on said lvl 19 mage. Didn't even need it really, but had to spend the honor on something. :p

And the rest of the BiS stuff just comes from dungeon runs with locked XP. Come to think of it, that was the only* thing you even needed a "sugardaddy" or a booster in the good old days, since there was no locked XP back then, heh.. now you can do even that on your own.

*not including head enchant.