Hagara HC - I don't need a mic, right?

20 Orc Shaman
9110
So I'm having an issue with Hagara currently.

My guild is 3/8 and we're progressing on Hagara, our first night of progress was fine but we don't have very long raiding nights and as such we didn't get to kill her, got her down to 35% or so.

My Guild Master is insisting that I need to have a microphone in order to be part of the raid team. He says that we need to shout out on Skype when we get the debuff and need dispelling. While I do see his point, it is surely much easier to use macros or an addon. For various reasons I do not have (and cannot get) a microphone so I told him that I made a macro that will tell the raid that I have the debuff and need to be dispelled.

Surely it is much easier to hit one key on your keyboard (I keybound the macro to F, so that I don't have to move my hand to do it) than to say on Skype, "I have the debuff, and I am player X".

He is either misunderstanding what I mean by saying I made macros, or he is being arrogant; I fear it is the latter.

Any help on what I can do in order to convince him that my macros will work fine?
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90 Human Mage
0
No, you don't -NEED- a mic, but it would be considerably easier if you did.

I don't see why he is against macros though, that should be more than a fine replacement. He should give you an assist so you can /rw.

However, to be honest, your healers should dispell without having people shout out, seems like slacking and laziness on their part.
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20 Orc Shaman
9110
02/05/2012 17:01Posted by Beldanor
However, to be honest, your healers should dispell without having people shout out, seems like slacking and laziness on their part.


That was also something I was wondering. They are perfectly capable of looking at their raid UI and dispelling people they see with debuffs; or however addons for healing work.

I've spoken to the raid's healers about it, and they said a macro would be perfectly fine.

The healers are certainly not slackers; it seems like a recurring pattern in the GM's attitude now. He's not the friendliest of folks, and it doesn't surprise me at all that just before I joined there were lots of people who left the guild to go somewhere else.
Edited by Uh on 02/05/2012 17:08 BST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12925
I find it easier to heal/dispel when people don't yell on Vent "DISPEL ME!". I don't yell "DPS THE CRYSTAL!" after all, everybody has their own pair of eyes...

I don't think we ever used Vent for dispels on Hagara. Whoever gets the debuff gets inside the bubble so it is pretty easy to spot when to dispel, rather than adding 2secs of wait time to it by waiting that person to say "Dispel me!"... Although the boss mods /s'ing or /y'ing helps a bit too and it's more than enough.
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90 Human Priest
17335
However, to be honest, your healers should dispell without having people shout out, seems like slacking and laziness on their part.


Well, that depends on the tactic though. We always have people going inside the bubble to get a dispel, so there won't be any slowing ice patches around. That's why we need people to shout "Dispel XXX" in vent, so we actually know when it's safe to dispel. Now, obviously this can be done with macros too, so I don't think a mic is necessary unless your healers are unable to read ;)

If healers just immediately dispel people, they risk dropping an ice patch on someone and having them run into trouble with getting away from ice walls.

EDIT: Personally I find it much easier to simply have people say "dispel me" instead of having to keep track of their movements myself. :>
Edited by Kirvbanana on 02/05/2012 17:11 BST
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90 Human Warrior
18725
I agree with Kirv that if people go inside it's easier to call out for dispells when you are inside.

But just say '<Player Name>'; instead of 'dispell <Player Name>' or 'dispell me' (at least we insist on that); you keep the voice clear for more important information in that way and avoid the delay.

If everyone else calls out on skype/vent and healer have to also look for raid-warnings it becomes messy. There are also other parts where voice chat is good on Hagara: swapping chain-thing players when it bugs out; combat rez, and just explainining tactics etc.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12925

EDIT: Personally I find it much easier to simply have people say "dispel me" instead of having to keep track of their movements myself. :>


My guess is you're raiding 25s? That might cause the difference.

I don't know how frequent it is on 25s, but on 10s we pretty much only have 1 debuff at one time (and 15 less people of course) so I find it easier to see it myself. Although at first I was going with only the bubble-debuff for dispels...
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90 Orc Death Knight
12315
I've always been the type of player that know what to do when its needed.
And i've never been interested in voice communications.

Do not get me wrong for a guild voice communication is a big key for success.
But when you know the play style of your mates and the bosses are down to pracs you shouldn't really be needing any one to tell you "dispell me now" or "give me a cd now"..

There are no longer instant gimmicks that can kill people so there is no excuse of people been lazy and not doing the jobs they have been asigned to do.

How ever theres the thing that alot of guilds/players work better when they are controled by the raid leader.
You know some one that keeps them in track of whats going to happen next.

So if your healers are ones of those types of players the a mic would do wonders for both you and them and the guilds progression.
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90 Troll Mage
9960
Mic is never needed for planned tactics. Mic is needed when things go wrong or for RNG events. Mostly by the raidleader, but IMO, any good raider should have one, as it greatly helps communication, and me personally, NEVER read chat during an encounter.

I've always been the type of player that know what to do when its needed.
And i've never been interested in voice communications.

Do not get me wrong for a guild voice communication is a big key for success.
But when you know the play style of your mates and the bosses are down to pracs you shouldn't really be needing any one to tell you "dispell me now" or "give me a cd now"..

There are no longer instant gimmicks that can kill people so there is no excuse of people been lazy and not doing the jobs they have been asigned to do.

How ever theres the thing that alot of guilds/players work better when they are controled by the raid leader.
You know some one that keeps them in track of whats going to happen next.

So if your healers are ones of those types of players the a mic would do wonders for both you and them and the guilds progression.


Communication during progress helps a LOT, and should not be underestimated. "There are no longer instant gimmicks" what? Maybe with 20% buff not so much, as I haven't raided for 2 months, but when I did DS hc, assault, the last bounce on zon'ozz, the beam on zon'ozz, impale on madness, etc, were all pretty one-shotty.
Edited by Dutchmagoz on 02/05/2012 17:47 BST
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
7560
02/05/2012 17:09Posted by Kirvbanana
Well, that depends on the tactic though. We always have people going inside the bubble to get a dispel, so there won't be any slowing ice patches around. That's why we need people to shout "Dispel XXX" in vent, so we actually know when it's safe to dispel.


Uhm, you definitely should not need people to shout for that. Any healer's raid frames should be displaying both the frostflake debuff and the bubble one. As such, it is safe to dispel when both debuffs are active. It does not have to be harder than that.

What voice communication does help for is discussing tacticts before the pull and communicating improvisations when things go wrong.
Edited by Nattälva on 02/05/2012 19:19 BST
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90 Human Priest
17335
To be honest, I never even thought that you get a debuff from the bubble, and I could check it from that, haha :> So yeah no, never had that debuff visible.

And no, I raid 10man actually, but I just simply find voice comm easier so I can just tunnel grid :D
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89 Blood Elf Rogue
10645
I was a much better raider before we started using vent as a guild personally. Was checking everything on my own timers cd's, tactics pretty much all i needed to know about a boss. Nowdays i slack and expect everything to get called on vent tbh i rarely watch timers and i also catch myself getting angry if raid leaders miss anything.

Anyway purely on topic you dont need a mic unless you have a special role to perform that requires you to communicate flawlessly and even then you can work around it.

We lead 25 man guilds in Sunwell and Ulduar pre nurf without vent hell there was a world 40-50ish 25 man guild (Borked i think?) that never even used vent openly.

It definitely helps. Its not really mandatory.
Edited by Hrista on 02/05/2012 20:57 BST
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90 Tauren Druid
17000
I was a much better raider before we started using vent as a guild personally. Was checking everything on my own timers cd's, tactics pretty much all i needed to know about a boss. Nowdays i slack and expect everything to get called on vent tbh i rarely watch timers and i also catch myself getting angry if raid leaders miss anything.


Which is an issue on you are solely responsible for, not the fact that you use vent.

In any case - while some of our raiders doesn't have microphones, yes, I'd require any new trial to have a working mic and be able to communicate with the raid. Prior to 20% nerf of doom, you did need communication. I don't know what class you play, but if you're a tank, a healer, or anything with a raid cooldown, you need to be able to communicate and coordinate the other raid cds with the other players in the raid. If you're not, then there's also these fights where communication is neccessary for ANYONE:

Zon'ozz (dispelling of debuffs - shout dispell <Name> when you're far enough away from everyone).
Hagara (dispell in the bubble, coordinate ice-lance soaks).
Warmaster (coordinate soaks - this is mostly important in 10 man, as 25 man has a much lower cooldown on the debuff, so there's only a low chance that the person standing next to you can't soak).

Of course, that was before everything was nerfed to the ground ;_;.
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
15355
I do not have mic, and not missed a single dispell either. But it's also because they have (apparently) showing on their grid (or whatever they use), when people get the bubble's debuff. They have noted that it be easier if their MT has a working mic, but sometime in wotlk I stepped on it and I have been lazy to buy new. :'(

Actually it's quite interesting how since me starting MTing on this character people started to spot DK cooldowns and such since I rarely speak. When guild did 25 mans and had DK tank. Healers always were spoonfed. Now they have to see if and when my AMS, dancing weapon, and army's summon ends. And I naturally have to understand their cool downs better since I have to pre-agree most of it.

Didnt stop me solo-tanking most of it since 5% nerf, it was when I started raiding again in cata :)

But if I'd ever get working mic I might actually communicate. But that be for MoP then :D
Edited by Azriyel on 03/05/2012 01:08 BST
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85 Orc Shaman
8820
Your healers need to be adding Watery Entrenchment to their Grid debuffs so that they know when it's okay to dispel somebody, and if they're not using Grid... I dunno, whatever healing addon they deem necessary as long as it's an addon that allows them to see this debuff, otherwise they've no business dispelling anything on this fight (or doing heroic fights at all).

Basically you don't need a microphone if your healers don't have grid and the watery entrenchment debuff added... I dunno. Install a mic/addon if necessary but for this, it shouldn't be necessary.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
15915
Verbal communication is easier and more efficient than any other means.

We have a person like you in our raid who yells for a dispel with a macro. In my opinion its a pain in the !@#$ when one special snowflake can't or won't speak. It means other people have to pay more attention to make up for that.

I'm with your raid leader on this one.
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90 Goblin Mage
14510
Mic is super convenient and I'd expect it from any person really, but in this situation - as been mentioned many times - get your healers to sort their things. I don't see how yelling on vent could ever be easier/better than watching debuffs on grid and dispell when you see both. Only thing we shout out there in frost phase if we have a person fall behind, so we have another healer fall back with him/her, and even that could be spotted rather quickly by healers due to out of range issues.

Doesn't mean I disagree with the raid leader to get a mic though. Not being able to talk ever can likely cause some extra wipes in a spot where you could've shouted out something when things didn't go as planned.

Edit: macro's are meh. Only works when it's a raidwarning in a pug for "melee move" on Zon'ozz or something. Apart from that most people rarely watch stuff in /y or /s or /whatever when raiding. And I sure as hell wouldn't alter my UI so that I could definitly spot one person's macro because he won't get a mic, sorry.
Healing is watching surroundings and your grid (or similar add-ons). When the tactic of your guild is to call something out on vent, and you can't/won't, then by insisting on using some sort of macro you put unnecessary strain on healers by having them also check chat.
Edited by Spamz on 03/05/2012 05:08 BST
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
15355
Verbal communication is easier and more efficient than any other means.

We have a person like you in our raid who yells for a dispel with a macro. In my opinion its a pain in the !@#$ when one special snowflake can't or won't speak. It means other people have to pay more attention to make up for that.

I'm with your raid leader on this one.


Majority of vent communication has none to do with combat. Didn't when I raided high - end with supposed pros, even less so when I raided with muppets and even less now, when i raid with whelps (people new to whole raiding scene).

Problem with vents and things is that some vocal people think we give a s**** of their opinions and comments. Sometimes those : "OMG WATCH TANK HP" and similar are just bloody annoying. And using grid to dispel is not a bloody rocket science. Or using range locator on zonozz.
Edited by Azriyel on 03/05/2012 06:02 BST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12055
02/05/2012 17:09Posted by Kirvbanana
Well, that depends on the tactic though. We always have people going inside the bubble to get a dispel, so there won't be any slowing ice patches around. That's why we need people to shout "Dispel XXX" in vent, so we actually know when it's safe to dispel. Now, obviously this can be done with macros too, so I don't think a mic is necessary unless your healers are unable to read ;)

This is farily easy to do without saying anything, if you're using boss modes addons you will /say frost(whatever the name is) on me, which makes it easy to locate the person by looking around for a second.

However OP you should get a mic no matter what. :P It will make everything so much easier, I must say its damn annoying raiding with people who won't use a mic or speak on vent. For instance if someone calls out for a cd which quite isn't ready yet, you won't have as much free time typing it as you would have announcing its beeing on cd "insert time here" (typing during combat might also result into dps loss and reduce your preformance or even kill you).
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
15355
03/05/2012 07:32Posted by Ducianna
However OP you should get a mic no matter what. :P It will make everything so much easier, I must say its damn annoying raiding with people who won't use a mic or speak on vent. For instance if someone calls out for a cd which quite isn't ready yet, you won't have as much free time typing it as you would have announcing its beeing on cd "insert time here" (typing during combat might also result into dps loss and reduce your preformance or even kill you).


I survived 4 globules in heroic Yor (raid didnt) and i do ponder - if the content is THAT hard, why you need voice communication anyway ?
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