World of Warcraft®

and if they fix shamies in mop?

11/07/2012 21:33Posted by Ragarr

and if they fix shamies in mop?

Then the sky is the limit. If we end up working well with what we got, I wouldn't react strongly to people wishing for some extra dimension. What bothers me here is that there are (combined) like 3-5 threads about tanking and 2H viability on the front page.

What that tells me is that the people asking for this are not playing their class in endgame and have no experience with the real issues, or if they are, they are playing it in normal mode at best.
After I wrote the above scentence, I went through this thread and looked at the progress of all the "PRO tanking" supporters, followed by "ANTI tanking" posters (posts in wich the message is clear) to see if I was being too liberal in my assumption.
These are the results:

1st supporter poster: level 52.
2nd supporter poster: morchok normal, nothing else.
3rd supporter poster: level 57 (you).
4th supporter poster: cleared it normal (1x DW kill).
5th supporter poster: A druid.
6th supporter poster: 3 bosses killed in LFR mode, nothing else.

I will then add the ANTI tanking posters:

1st anti poster: Full HC exp.
2nd anti poster: Full HC exp.
3rd anti poster: Full HC exp.
4th anti poster: 6/8 HC exp.
5th anti poster: Full LFR exp only.
6th anti poster: Full HC exp.
7th anti poster: Priest.

You see the pattern forming here? The reason why we are so outspoken about this is because we need all the attention we can get, and we don't want that attention to be mislead by a bunch of semi-to-not serious players creating threads that might lead the developers to believe that this is something we all want.

I just wanted to make that clear.

6/8 hc, or even 8/8 hc at this % is not a serious player. I'm 6/8 with some guildies at 8/8 despite it being a fairly casual guild that does about 1 DS raid a week often mixing random alts and socials in the run, whom generally all dislike the thought of wiping on a boss more than 5 times in a night (blackhorn fire bugs gave us issues and so we didn't even try spine tonight).

12/07/2012 00:53Posted by Raiju

6/8 hc, or even 8/8 hc at this % is not a serious player. I'm 6/8 with some guildies at 8/8 despite it being a fairly casual guild that does about 1 DS raid a week often mixing random alts and socials in the run, whom generally all dislike the thought of wiping on a boss more than 5 times in a night (blackhorn fire bugs gave us issues and so we didn't even try spine tonight).

Well it also depends on WHEN you got to that point, I mean 25% nerfed as it is today means that its about as hard as normal was around its release. What your friends do is irrelevant to this topic though and I must underline that everything in DS is a complete walk in the park right now, except for Spine and Madness.
The point is that the "hardcore" Enhancement players seem to generally have come to the conclusion that we need alot more attention twoards the spec's issues (same probably goes for any serious Elemental/resto player aswell) before we start crying for something that can only be viewed as a gimmick at this point.

Fix what's broken, then everyone can debate wether Shaman should be able to tank, or get a glyph that turns them into unicorns instead of wolves (equally important).

And if they fixed the class your oppinion would be?

(btw why u wearing that strange helm? doesn't look wery shamany!)

Also, i dont argue about shamies being broken(actualy kind'a agree about that)but to me it doesn't seem you have told me about any of the issues and let me know EXACTLY how bad it is!

12/07/2012 02:58Posted by Ragarr

Also, i dont argue about shamies being broken(actualy kind'a agree about that)but to me it doesn't seem you have told me about any of the issues and let me know EXACTLY hod bad it is!

.........................................all i can say to that....

12/07/2012 02:52Posted by Ragarr

And if they fixed the class your oppinion would be?

I already answered:

11/07/2012 22:23Posted by Masztaar

Then the sky is the limit. If we end up working well with what we got, I wouldn't react strongly to people wishing for some extra dimension

12/07/2012 02:53Posted by Ragarr

(btw why u wearing that strange helm? doesn't look wery shamany!)

Its from my PVE set that looks the same except its all green (I'll relog with that one on later), and I don't want to look very shamany, wanted a more unique evil theme. EDIT: Like a Space Marine who hunts Spacegoats such as Solex.

12/07/2012 02:58Posted by Ragarr

Also, i dont argue about shamies being broken(actualy kind'a agree about that)but to me it doesn't seem you have told me about any of the issues and let me know EXACTLY how bad it is!

This thread for starters: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3548315133
Magically enoug that issue seems to be getting fixed in MoP, together with gearscaling. The next huge worry I have now is how Elemental Blast will work in our rotation and that our attacks seems to be tuned too low, with nothing to make up for the incoming loss of 20% attackpower and the 549 agi buff.

This is a thread about:how i think shaman tanking should work if they are added in the future
Not about:i think it's a good idea what u guys think?
About everything you said has nothing to do about what the thread is about, you are just arguing about my oppinion cus i'm no hardcore gamer and you think shaman tanking is bad idea but have i said WHEN i think it should be added? You have just been disagreeing about something i want blizzard to add in the FUTURE not the upcoming expack

Btw sry if it sounds stupid wrote on an Iphone :p

12/07/2012 19:44Posted by Ragarr

Iphone :p

And that was the final nail in the coffin, congratz.

This is a thread about:how i think shaman tanking should work if they are added in the future
Not about:i think it's a good idea what u guys think?
About everything you said has nothing to do about what the thread is about, you are just arguing about my oppinion cus i'm no hardcore gamer and you think shaman tanking is bad idea but have i said WHEN i think it should be added? You have just been disagreeing about something i want blizzard to add in the FUTURE not the upcoming expack

Well then by all means feel free to imagine-craft. Thing is, reading it the way it looks at this point in time (pre-MoP), it very much looks like this is some last minute plea for a 4th spec, and considering how many threads that pop up about the subject it just gets annoying. I do all I can in order to try and steer these threads away, because I think they are completely pointless and lack real substance (feel free to disagree, as many obviously do).

The new abilities and talents are already in place for the upcoming expansion, what I feel everyone should help out with is to steer those abilities and talents in the right direction by giving opinions and feedback, aswell as helping to shed light on things that are broken ingame. That is why it strikes me as odd that 4ish threads about something that is so irrelevant to the game at this point in time appear now.

Its not that I hate the idea in itself, its that I hate that I read so much about it when a new expansion is just around the corner.
Let me describe the way I see it as best as I can:

Imagine a crippled guy in a broken wheelchair, with no money (Enhancement, impopular). The doctors (Blizzard) have a way of fixing both, but there are alot of other, less injured people with more money (other, more popular classes) that also want their problems taken care of. What the crippled guy needs to do, is to convince the doctor that his issues are bad enough to be given the utmost attention.
To get said attention, he must fill in a chart (this forum) where he describes his illness - now here is my point; I would write "My spine is broken and my wheelchair is not working" (Problems with spec) in a passionate way on that chart.
However, what people who are passionate about shaman tanking are collectively writing is "I like ice cream and walks on the beach" on the same chart. While the doctors might think that's nice and interesting, they are not going to make it their priority to take the guy out for ice cream on the beach when patients are getting restless.

Hence, I wish we could all be more focused on the problems at hand instead of focusing on something like this. Thats all.

OP I highly suggest you re-read everything Solex has said.

Enhancement would be replaced by tank, therefore one less melee DPS in an already Caster DPS heavy game (mechanics of raids and PvP success rate - See DoT Cleave for more info). Enhancement as a spec gets very little attention, even in comparison to the Shaman class so I really think that however creative your ideas may be, they're not worth it in the long run to the class or the game, apologies if that seems offensive.

What i am sating is that i never expected shamytanks to be added before the class is fixed i'm only trying to make a usable concept for when it IS fixed so that blizzard have something to work with when(if)they add it. Also,if the fans make the concept blizzard can use more time on the rest of the class while also making a new spec!

(Btw there's probably some more spots left if u wanna work for blizz and save the long-dead shaman class!)

(btw would appreciate if you could be a bit posditive now that you know exactly what i wanted to accomplish)

You misunderstand me;

- I have no intentions of working for Blizzard, I am a consumer not a supplier.
- What they do with the game rarely is sourced from the consumers in a positive way, as in they won't listen to a level 57 posting on a character he's put a very small amount of effort in. Hell they barely listen to the loyal players.
- One extra tank class in place of a DPS class will not change queues, if anything Enhancement Shamans will just switch to Warriors, Feral Druids, Rogues or Death Knights if they enjoy playing melee that much.
- It's difficult to respond to a post in a positive way when I have nothing positive to say. Especially when, with all respect to you as a human being, your using at least 4 items with intellect and spirit. One is a Heirloom item, it's very difficult to take a person's point of view seriously when they aren't playing correctly, are nowhere near end-game content and haven't witnessed what Shamans, let alone Enhancement Shamans have gone through since Classic.

I was talking to Maasztar!

13/07/2012 01:43Posted by Ragarr

(btw would appreciate if you could be a bit posditive now that you know exactly what i wanted to accomplish)

Once MoP hits and if the class, or enhancement in particular for me plays out nicely (and by nicely I mean alot better than in Cata), then I promise that I won't interfere and try to put a stop to anything regarding Shaman tanking or 2H viability.
I used to wish for shaman tanking in vanilla to an extreme, my guild even allowed me to tank onyxia once (wich actually worked I might add), and I wanted the Enhancement tree to get more defensive abilities and work more like the Feral tree did.

However once the pre-TBC patch hit, I scrapped that notion completely as it showed wich direction they wanted Enhancement to go (wich was really unclear before then). I really liked what they did to it aswell, as most enhancers do enjoy the fast-paced attacks we've always had.

Since then, Enhancement has been left further and further behind for some unexplainable reason, and it's time they fixed the spec so that it becomes a force to be reckoned with again *fingers crossed*.
After we have gotten the proper attention that we so desperately need, I will have nothing against these threads, as they are really innocent but become really provoking when so much else is wrong. Sorry to say that I'll never be enthusiastic about them, but they wouldn't sting people's eyes as much if we were in a good place.

I hope you haven't been offended by anything I've written here, I may come off has harsh but all I'm trying to do is to draw a line in the sand saying "this is NOT important".

I'll end by saying that I'm really positive that you are enthusiastic about the class.

Btw i'm a casual player,compared to how much i play and how slow i gain lvls i have put a lot of effort in this char!

And i NEVER said replace enchant! That would only be stupid, btw why are you arguing when i have just explain why u should NOT argue? Do i have to explain AGAIN what this thread is about?

(btw if u faction changed(wich would be stupidest thing ever sence draeneis are just wierd) u gotta tell me so that i dont think ur some random draenei wearing a ugly hat)