Alliance favored battlegrounds

90 Goblin Shaman
20160
Alterac Valley. Since vanilla/classic WoW this battleground has given an unfair advantage to the Alliance. There are so many things wrong with this battleground. So let's point them out.

The map: It is not symmetrical. Sure, Blizzard wants the world to be realistic but the bridge on the Alliance side gives them an unfair advantage over the Horde. This isn't as big an issue as it was back when people didn't rush to the opposing team's base but it's still an issue. It is the only way to enter the Alliance base. If the Alliance would want to they could just station an elemental shaman or a balance druid on the bridge to knock down anyone who tries to cross it.

The Horde have several entrances to their base. They're supposed to only have one which is the main gate, but there are small bumps on the ground that allow players to jump over the wall. People may not see this as a big problem but it is a problem, even if minor.

The towers/bunkers: As a Horde player it's really annoying to destroy a bunker. The way to get to the actual banner isn't a big deal, but since the Alliance bunkers are so open all the archers can just shoot at you and interrupt you from capturing the banner. The only way to actually destroy the bunkers is to kill all the archers, or kill most of them and then find a perfect place to line of sight the remaining ones. The open space also gives Alliance players the same advantages as the archers.

For the Alliance it is a complete different story. The Horde towers are so poorly designed and the Alliance can just run into the room where the banner's located and just take it immediately without having to worry about any interference from the Horde archers. The archers are simply dumbstruck and just stand there and look towards the room.

The lieutenants/generals: Giving Balinda Ice Block was not a good idea. She will become immune for several seconds while the Alliance are free to push on and the Horde are just waiting for her Ice Block to end. I'm not sure if a priest can Mass Dispel it, but it shouldn't be a requirement to have a priest with you everytime you kill her. This has also led to that many people want to skip her because they feel she's a waste of time.

What does Galvangar have to make him immune to damage? Nothing. He has a very bad whirlwind ability that even results in him doing less damage than he would do without using it at all. The whirlwind gives the Alliance time to heal up their tank(s) and while Galvangar is using Whirlwind he's just taking free damage. I would like for this Whirlwind ability to be removed or given a Herod treatment ("Blades of Light!"). But that would also mean that he should use it much less often, if not just once.

The generals. Vanndar Stormpike is far more superior to Drek'Thar. He doesn't have a single useless ability, all his abilities do a lot of damage and he even has a buff which makes him even stronger called Avatar.

Drek'Thar has the exact same problem as Galvangar - Whirlwind. Drek'Thar is a very strong melee fighter but when he uses Whirlwind it's the same issue as with Galvangar, he does too little damage for Alliance to even have to worry about it. When he uses this ability the Alliance can just sit back and heal up whoever's low on health and Drek'Thar just spins in place like an idiot.

These issues combined are gamebreaking in AV and results in the Alliance having a much easier time to win than the Horde.

Those are my issues with Alterac Valley. Moving on to Battle For Gilneas.

Battle For Gilneas is a relatively new battleground and I can understand why it has its flaws. But these need to be fixed as soon as possible. As many have pointed out in other threads the graveyards are completely bugged for Horde players. No matter what bases the Horde are holding Horde players will always get sent to the graveyard at their ship near the mines, unless of course they hold the mines. They have no graveyard at the lighthouse at all even though they are probably supposed to have one. During my time in the Battle For Gilneas I have not even been resurrected at the waterworks even when it's under control by the Horde. I have always been sent back to the boat or to the mines which results in the Alliance capturing the base I have just died defending.

When I kill an Alliance player at the mines and they still have it under control they will resurrect at the mines giving the Horde no chance to clear it and recapture it as the Alliance just keep flooding in. This is mainly an issue when the Alliance is holding both the lighthouse and the waterworks and the Horde are trying to get back in the game.

Another thing about the Battle For Gilneas is that the Alliance, just like in AV, have an unfair advantage because of how the map is designed. The Horde has to swim across a river in order to get to the waterworks if they come from the mines, or alternatively take a detour around the mountain/cliffs on the left and run that way, while the Alliance can just run all the way without any hindrances. There is a broken bridge there that is supposed to stall them, yes, but if you just run without jumping you will land on the small rock in the river and from that rock you can just run onto land and then take the waterworks. They even have a Speed relic/buff on the bridge to give them mount speed while on foot if they happen to dismount. This gives the Alliance several seconds headstart to start capturing the waterworks and position themselves nicely.

Lastly I will bring up a very minor advantage that the Alliance has in Arathi Basin. They have a shorter distance to the stables than the Horde has to the farm which results in them capturing the stables 1-2 seconds before the Horde captures the farm. Very minor like I said, but a very minor problem is still a problem.

Those are all the issues I have to bring up now. If anyone has anything else to point out please do so. Hopefully this thread gets some attention and brings about some fixes to these issues.
Edited by Rakshata on 18/06/2012 07:50 BST
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85 Night Elf Hunter
11200
18/06/2012 07:24Posted by Rakshata
Since vanilla/classic WoW this battleground has given an unfair advantage to the Alliance. There are so many things wrong with this battleground. So let's point them out.


Even though this topic has been beaten to death, i'll tell you where its wrong. You'll find during tbc horde base was actually move quite far back as av was horde favoured, meant to even it out but imo pushed it too far back

Ally bunkers can easily capped by standing on the outside ring of bunker, which los's the archers and enables you to cap them, although i agree its much much easier to cap the horde version there is no reason to kill every archer.

But yes, battle for gilneas is pretty messed up, can never understand the reason to make horde have to swim the river to get to waterworks, even from both approachs.
Edited by Eggs on 18/06/2012 08:08 BST
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85 Blood Elf Rogue
1185
The only thing wrong with AV is the Horde tactics.

Gilneas actually favours Horde:-

Mines is easy to hold because it's so close to the spawn point. Then the slight rise between WW and Mines is a perfect vantage point to group and launch a defensive strike at whichever is threatened. So the key for Horde is to ignore LH, take mines then WW with an overwhelming attack, then fall back to that middle rise and sit there with a couple of defenders at each base.

That tactic only fails if Alli have a VERY significant gear advantage. Even if only a few players get the idea it works more often than not. I have something like 65% win on Gilneas.

PS. Never heard of 'Path of Frost'? Rogue glyph of Blurred Speed? Priest Levitate? Frightened to get your dress wet?

EDIT typo
Edited by Anthor on 18/06/2012 09:21 BST
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84 Tauren Druid
12145
Be grateful we don't have two waterway exits in TP as Alliance does. I don't really see the point in that but it equals out any minor disadvantage the Horde might have.
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85 Blood Elf Rogue
1185
18/06/2012 09:46Posted by Flyinghawk
Be grateful we don't have two waterway exits in TP as Alliance does. I don't really see the point in that but it equals out any minor disadvantage the Horde might have.


I dislike TP (as Horde) because I always seen to lose there. The waterway seems to be an equal obstacle to both teams and I've spent a lot of time floundering in it.

Biggest problem I find with both TP and WSG is that Horde have at best one healer while Alli have at least 2 or 3. Always, plus a blood DK or Palladin FC.
So we lose but that's not the fault of the bg layout.

BUT on the OPs point. AV is definitely Alli biased. Everyone knows it. I don't really see the point of bringing it up again but that's human nature I suppose - keep picking at the scab.
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But yes, battle for gilneas is pretty messed up, can never understand the reason to make horde have to swim the river to get to waterworks, even from both approachs.


Horde players tend to take the lower path to get to WW from Mines instead of the upper path where the boots of speed are available. Using said boots or any other speed ability (like Dash) allow players to jump and reach the edge of the WW "island". Engineers can use their cloak to fly over too. Anthor listed other abilities that can be used to pass the water...

As for AV, most battles are won by whoever is clever with attacking and defending towers as well as graveyards. Once the boss is engaged, it doesn't take more than 20 secs to take him down provided there is a proper tank (which isn't always the case). So the boss abilities really don't make a massive difference...
In the rare case when the Alliance decides to defend the bridge to turtle the game, Horde is much better off blocking Stonehearth and farming Alliance players there. In reality both factions can block the map: it is just done at different place according to the faction you're in.
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85 Blood Elf Rogue
1185

As for AV, most battles are won by whoever is clever with attacking and defending towers as well as graveyards. Once the boss is engaged, it doesn't take more than 20 secs to take him down provided there is a proper tank (which isn't always the case). So the boss abilities really don't make a massive difference...
In the rare case when the Alliance decides to defend the bridge to turtle the game, Horde is much better off blocking Stonehearth and farming Alliance players there. In reality both factions can block the map: it is just done at different place according to the faction you're in.


That's very true.
In saying AV is biased, I was thinking of the 'zerg-option' that seems to be the only thing Horde are able to think of despite the fact that it will lead to an almost-inevitable loss.

A turtled AV is much more unpredictable and therefore entertaining. The problem is to turtle it without capping SH GY and ideally to cap SP GY.
IMO the best strategy for Horde would be to eliminate Bal and fall back to FW, resisting the temptation to leave the Keep area, which is a virtually impregnable killing ground.

But, I ramble...
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