Topic
Rogue openers?
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So i was watching some rogue openers on youtube and almost all of them had cheap shot as their first opener,so i tried this on my rogue and noticed that cheap shot will reduce the duration on my kidney shot by 2 sec,so i was thinking it wasnt worth opening with a cheap shot.
Instead i opened with a Premeditation+Recoop--->Garrote(mainly for the bleed DoT)--->Hemo--->Backstab--->Shiv(for cripling poison)--->Rupture--->spam Shiv or Backstab--->Re-apply Hemo bleed--->Recoop--->again spam Shiv and Backstab until 5 combo,wait for full energy pool,then full Kidney shot--->Shadowstep+Shadow dance--->Spam Ambush. I find this more effective,to spam with Shiv and not Hemo mainly because it will allow the Hemo bleed to tick freely instead of refreshing it over and over again with no bleed damage ticks. Yes i choose Rupture instead of a SnD,because i dont find 50% more haste that effective then a DoT and i choose to open on any Class with a Garrote for the bleed DoT,compine this with Hemo bleed and Rupture bleed,it will deal a sufficient amount of damage in total and save the Kidney shot once hes low on health,with a great help from my bleeds ofc. So what do you guys think? Plz no immature comments and trolling,we wanna keep it on topic :) |
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Depends on the class you're opening on, it's a bad idea to open with garrote on a rogue for example.
But shiv is only used to apply crippling, or if a rogues got evasion up and you need combo points. Don't spam it as it does no damage and uses a huge amount of energy. Also, the damage from hemo bleed is pointless as well, so spam it all you like. If you want to open on a priest for example, a good opener is premed (macro premed into your openers), garrote, hemo, backstab, full kidney. Or, garrote, hemo, backstab, full recup, dance cheapshot. Then you can spam ambushes all you like. Rupture isn't worth using ever, unless you need to keep someone out of stealth. Use it on evis or recup or snd. |
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You gimp yourself major by attacking with shiv instead of hemorrhage or backstab. It doesnt matter if you refresh hemorrhage dot because its not what does the most damage, it is the direct hit. Shiv is only worth using at start if you are afraid someone will kite you before you got your crippling up.
Slice and dice is tons better than rupture if you can stay on target. Open with premeditation and recuperate can be good since it will give you energy in your cheap shot or garrote. A good thing you do is to have high energy before you kidney shot, then you´ll do a lot of damage while they can't defend themself. If an enemy is aware you are there cheap shot is great (mainly on melee) even if it's duration is 2 seconds shorter than kidney shot since they can't run away from you before crippling is applied. If it is a caster it is (almost) always better to open up with garrote followed by kidney shot so they can't do anything for more than 10 seconds. Ambush have some uses to open up with but most of the time either a stun or silence is better. I seen a lot of rogues open with shadow dance but that is for me a bit stupid since you´ll do A LOT more damage if you got both slice and recuperate up while they sit in a 6 second stun and most of the time is forced to burn their trinket or another big cooldown. |
Stuns are affected by the "diminishing returns" rule, which means that if you don't wait about 15 seconds after a stun wears off to apply a new one, its duration will be halved. If you follow CS with a full KS without waiting it will last 3 seconds instead of 6 (not 4). If you spam CS during Shadow Dance for example they will last 4 -> 2 -> 1 -> target becomes immune. CS is the "good for [almost] all" opener at level 85 because it gives you 2 combo points for an early finisher and it gives you time to apply Hemorrhage and poisons. At lower levels it's not that attractive because Ambush deals a lot of damage and with KS you can finish them off, but when people don't die in a few seconds you usually "begin slowly", building combo points for Recuperate and maybe SnD, then land a KS when needed. Garrote is good in mid fight as a powerful silence, so opening with it is not always good (it's also affected by diminishing returns), but if you have the glyph you can Garrote into KS to lock down a caster for 4.5+6=10.5 seconds. Add Blinds, Kicks and things like that and you can annoy healers pretty nicely. |
Yes it is a fairly weak DoT,but compined with Garrote+Hemo bleed+Rupture=decent damage. And Shiv costs around 20 energy,plus it will remove any enrage,for example if you fight against a class that has enrage buffs you can disspell it without the player from noticing it being removed or when the player uses a ability that will remove movement impairing effects,then spaming shiv will always apply cripplin,but i wont just spam shiv 24/7 i only use it when i cant get a backstab. Plus i almost never use SnD and Evicerate i only use when the player has low health for a finisher with 5 combos up. |
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Edited by Frostjack on 26/06/12 18:23 (BST)
I really dont know if it is,because most players dont actually explain why its alot better than rupture or in most cases better than Evicerate. Could you explain this to me? |
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I seen a lot of rogues open with shadow dance but that is for me a bit stupid since you´ll do A LOT more damage if you got both slice and recuperate up while they sit in a 6 second stun and most of the time is forced to burn their trinket or another big cooldown. The point of opening with Shadow Dance is to force defensive cooldowns quicker and so that Dance comes up again quicker in the duel. If you hold dance you have to wait until next stun dr by which time your opponent may have gained some momentum and will be more likely to trinket your dance potentially wasting it. Opening with Dance on melee classes is very advisable because it forces them to either trinket or hand you a huge advantage by eating a full dance with a premed>recup ticking. You can even do a Neilyo and Cheap Shot to Gouge, run away and restealth and then open with a full five point Recuperate and premed Slice & Dice, which gives your dance opener massive burst. |
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If you hit a target dummy and have rupture up your white attacks still do much more damage than your bleed even without slice up, add around 150% to that damage |
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Spam shiv against rogues with evasion up to build combo points.
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Edited by Amaxí on 07/07/12 08:38 (BST)
Cheap shot is often the safest choice for an opener. Let's say you play with a ranged in 3v3, you wanna open on the enemy team healer and he's close to a pillar, if you open with garrote in this situation he might be able to move around the pillar and LoS your ranged partner and thus avoiding dot/opener burst and this can basiclly ruin a powerful opener for you, there's also the risk of you getting slowed or cc'd before you can even shiv on a crippling. If the target is already slowed and not close to LoS and what not it is usually the most ideal to open with a garrote into a kidney shot tho. (to appropriate targets ofc)
In the case of duels, if you open with anything but cheap shot on another rogue he could shadowstep+ shadow dance cheap shot you instantly, practicly ruining your opener and getting a powerful opener on you instead. Just a few examples. In arena you can use use your redirect to kidney someone else for cc or to swap aswell. Short version: Cheap shot is a good opener, and often the best one. |
