Please Bring Back Attunements

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85 Human Warrior
5915
Agree Ghostile but that would suck of me since I took a long break after Cataclysm release, nowdays there is no BWD & BoT raid running on my server, It's a dead server (i know).

I agree on the attunements they were fun, some extra world PvP existed.


Return the difference between tiers to the level it was back in TBC and you get this covered.
It would make sense to raid older content again.

For example: Some people passed on tier 5 pieces because they had full tier 4 and so on.
90 Troll Warrior
16880
attunements bring more dept in the game it rewards players who do take effort, attunements like the lvl of tbc raids is one thing i miss in wow..instead of farming endlessly for points. and without much effort getting gear..

the game exp from doing those attunements which made you farm and get to learn the raids and progress in order to kill the last boss and get the vial to get the first part from attunement it made me a better player understanding the meaning of certain spells and knowledge about your class spec talents and your oponents, ofc it was the boss mechanics that also gave you a huge reward.
i think attunements can only add more, then it offers now; without it.
see it as a motivation to go into raids.
90 Dwarf Rogue
15800
attunements bring more dept in the game it rewards players who do take effort, attunements like the lvl of tbc raids is one thing i miss in wow..instead of farming endlessly for points. and without much effort getting gear..

the game exp from doing those attunements which made you farm and get to learn the raids and progress in order to kill the last boss and get the vial to get the first part from attunement it made me a better player understanding the meaning of certain spells and knowledge about your class spec talents and your oponents, ofc it was the boss mechanics that also gave you a huge reward.
i think attunements can only add more, then it offers now; without it.
see it as a motivation to go into raids.


Is this 'effort' not just an arbirtary time-sink though? As I said before, I only started raiding in ICC so I don't have experience of doing attunements for current content. At the time, it was when our guild as a whole started raiding with a couple of exceptions who were quite experienced. Now we launched straight into ICC. If attunements existed we would have had to go back and do all the previous tiers which to me would have bene completely pointless. Sure, we were mostly totally new to raiding, but I learned everything progressing in the current tier. I don't think forcing me to do certain raids would have helped since I could learn my class just as easily playing the current content.

I suppose the only think I can compare it to (and a very loose comparison at that) is having to find the entrances to the cata dungeons before doing them. In theory this was a good idea but it just got annoying when one person hadn't even been to vashjir and had to go out and swim to the entrance. They wisely removed this requirement after a few months.
85 Gnome Rogue
5910
1
Edited by Ununhexium on 30/10/2012 05:57 GMT
90 Human Warrior
17740
I will quote myself again, since no one seems to be reading it.

I will say this again since you repetedly seem to disregard it; Attunements are something you do ONCE EVERY TIER. Not at the start of every raid.


Imo prerequisites are still the best option, raiding has changed greatly since T6 content, the only downside back then was if people rerolled or you recuited someone new, which meant you had to go back and attune them.

This is considerably easier now with Blizzard contiously nerfing previous content of this expansion so that "everyone can see it". Meaning any decent guild should be able to just watch the bosses roll over and die and get their new players attuned. This would also mean that casual would be able to do all the content still, only that they would have to do the old content first before being able to step in to the newest content, that way the explore the content that Blizzard wants "everyone to see", which means everyone gets to see the content, be it nerfed or un-nerfed. I think that a major roll in that the "no lifers who play 24/7" wants to see this change go through is so that you don't have to deal with nerfs to harder content that is suppose to be hard, just because Guild X is filled with people who rushed the content and are unable to kill it.
90 Human Warrior
18725
Why do you want attunements - but so the weak that they don't count?

A guild that has progressed through contents going back and then going back and facerolling through it to get a new raider attuned gives no real sense of accomplishment. Just an hour wasted on not progressing and reducing the fine memory of the previous progression to an empty shadow.

Giving an award to those that have progressed through some form an attunement (previous tier; some other quest-line; rep-grinding as for Naxx) is better, since it still gives the player the benefit without totally blocking the guild.
[Edit: Grammar.]
Edited by Norogil on 04/07/2012 07:45 BST
90 Human Paladin
17820
I liked attunements aswell, they didn't take much time or skill to get done but atleast you had to do something. Now it's just.. run inside a raid and do nothing. Not just TBC attunements, but also the ones you needed for onyxia, molten core and blackwing lair. Especially onyxia one was really fun to do.
90 Human Priest
5580
Why do you want attunements - but so the weak that they don't count?

A guild that has progressed through contents going back and then going back and facerolling through it to get a new raider attuned gives no real sense of accomplishment. Just an hour wasted on not progressing and reducing the fine memory of the previous progression to an empty shadow.
[Edit: Grammar.]
I don't get how this is really relevant. It is up to a guild to take on someone not attuned and if they decide to do so, they weigh that it is worth it.
04/07/2012 04:47Posted by Nancy
Not just TBC attunements, but also the ones you needed for onyxia, molten core and blackwing lair. Especially onyxia one was really fun to do.


Although we might look at them with rose-tinted glasses these days, some players back in the days complained that these attunements were too long. Guilds would also complain, eventually, as they had to pick up new recruits and basically run them through "old content" in order to get them up to speed (memory might be playing tricks on me, but I remember this happening when Tier 6 was live).

For those that miss them for the lore they brought, be sure to check the Lorewalker faction in Mists of Pandaria :-)
Edited by Draztal on 04/07/2012 11:01 BST
90 Human Priest
5580


Although we might look at them with rose-tinted glasses these days, some players back in the days complained that these attunements were too long. Guilds would also complain, eventually, as they had to pick up new recruits and basically run them through "old content" in order to get them up to speed (memory might be playing tricks on me, but I remember this happening when Tier 6 was live).


Yeah, running people through SSC and TK for the vials was a little painful when guilds progressed past it. Those attunements were lifted at some point though my guild did have to do this.



For those that miss them for the lore they brought, be sure to check the Lorewalker faction in Mists of Pandaria :-)
This sounds good, though does this mean a definite no for attunements for the foreseeable future? Even small ones with shorter easier quest lines?
Edited by Daaemon on 04/07/2012 11:09 BST
90 Blood Elf Paladin
16310
Not just TBC attunements, but also the ones you needed for onyxia, molten core and blackwing lair. Especially onyxia one was really fun to do.


Although we might look at them with rose-tinted glasses these days, some players back in the days complained that these attunements were too long. Guilds would also complain, eventually, as they had to pick up new recruits and basically run them through "old content" in order to get them up to speed (memory might be playing tricks on me, but I remember this happening when Tier 6 was live).


Yeah...

No.

When you actually see people even more casuals (and by all mean I am a 3 hours/day kind of player, not even close to hardcore) complain about how the game has nothing in it anymore to do, which -before you counter with "end expansion time" arguement- happens EVERY tier now, then there is something seriously going wrong.

I understnad dishing raiding/dungeon content faster is a hard thing and I rather getting less raids with more quality on them to farm, let's think back to t8 or t11 for example. Attunements, while might not be the only answer to this, WILL give the whiners something to do. People who are opposing them are not the people with less time, as I said, I play mere 3 hours a day if anything, but they are the people that refuse any sort of coordination or even the slight meager effort to earn their rewards, and also the same people that will complain later that their character "stopped developing beyond certain point" after they deck themselves up with LFR gear. :)

Also the same people are mind boggling wrong when they relate getting heroic raid content on farm is a time consuming process. You will get your heroic experience in the same relevant tier with 2 nights a week of raiding with the current model. They just don't want to put the slightest effort to learn, so asking them for the slightest effort in doing few quests or group quests or dungeon quests or raid quests which was actually amazing way to tell the lore of the game also feels like a great effort for said people, which isn't.
Edited by Dahlia on 04/07/2012 12:13 BST
90 Human Paladin
12320
Gues many people dont know what attunement mean !

Ok lets see what you do today before you start raid? (If you have a little conscience)

you do some quests/daily quests for items or rep enchants
then you farm dungeons or LFR DS... again for items or rep

after you get decent ilvl you start to raid, low raids (in cata ilvl 359 raids like BH/BD/BOT)
after you finish normals you start with HC

so what is attunemens .... you do all that but with some storyline, not just random dungeons you get from LFG
you will spend about same time (maybe a little more) than today but you need to do it right

ofc, you dont do that if you are lazy !@#$head who want all with minimum effort...
...like today people can pay for HC DS title / mount / items etc (personally I have no idea why people pay such a thing)
... or people just wait for 80% of guildmates to get raid ready and then they jump in (with all green/blue items) because they know there is not enough poeple in guild to fill raid

04/07/2012 11:01Posted by Draztal
For those that miss them for the lore they brought, be sure to check the Lorewalker faction in Mists of Pandaria :-)


Throwing dust in eyes and hide the problem under the carpet.
Edited by Windlove on 04/07/2012 12:30 BST
88 Pandaren Warrior
7560
04/07/2012 11:01Posted by Draztal
Not just TBC attunements, but also the ones you needed for onyxia, molten core and blackwing lair. Especially onyxia one was really fun to do.


Although we might look at them with rose-tinted glasses these days, some players back in the days complained that these attunements were too long. Guilds would also complain, eventually, as they had to pick up new recruits and basically run them through "old content" in order to get them up to speed (memory might be playing tricks on me, but I remember this happening when Tier 6 was live).

For those that miss them for the lore they brought, be sure to check the Lorewalker faction in Mists of Pandaria :-)


Sure, the old attunements were bad, are you claiming it is only possible to do long boring ones? They can be updated for 2012 without being the same as vanilla TBC, attunements should introduce players to playing their class well to progress this journey of character progression is much more engaging and enjoyable than the current 'see the content' journey.
90 Night Elf Priest
6080
Doing attunements does not make a player better!

All it does is show that you have played enough to do some dungeons - you can still be an awful player but hey you were there!
88 Pandaren Warrior
7560
Doing attunements does not make a player better!

All it does is show that you have played enough to do some dungeons - you can still be an awful player but hey you were there!


Yep you are right enjoy LFR MoP first day burn out.
90 Pandaren Priest
12945
Although we might look at them with rose-tinted glasses these days, some players back in the days complained that these attunements were too long. Guilds would also complain, eventually, as they had to pick up new recruits and basically run them through "old content" in order to get them up to speed (memory might be playing tricks on me, but I remember this happening when Tier 6 was live).

For those that miss them for the lore they brought, be sure to check the Lorewalker faction in Mists of Pandaria :-)

With account-wide mounts and achievements, isnt it possible to have account-wide attument for raids?
04/07/2012 12:08Posted by Dahlia
When you actually see people even more casuals (and by all mean I am a 3 hours/day kind of player, not even close to hardcore) complain about how the game has nothing in it anymore to do, which -before you counter with "end expansion time" arguement- happens EVERY tier now, then there is something seriously going wrong.


The end expansion time argument, like it or not, it's one that can't be just put aside. It happened with Wrath of the Lich King, TBC and Vanilla. We've seen this in the past, in the exact same shape as now.

04/07/2012 12:08Posted by Dahlia
Attunements, while might not be the only answer to this, WILL give the whiners something to do.


The devs would rather give something fun to do to the players than something that might be repetitive, not as attractive, or even problematic in the long run (as it happened with attunements in the old days).

That's something that Mists of Pandaria will try to improve through various means both when players get to the cap level and on their way there:

-Pet battles
-Daily quests (there's roughly, around 300 daily quests in Mists of Pandaria. Although these are randomized, you'd have around 48 quests available on any given day, and you can do as many of them as you wish).
-Scenarios
-Normal/Heroic dungeons
-Challenge modes (which might be especially appealing to the more hardcore crowd)
-LFR & 10/25 man normal/Heroic raids.

04/07/2012 12:08Posted by Dahlia
They just don't want to put the slightest effort to learn, so asking them for the slightest effort in doing few quests or group quests or dungeon quests or raid quests which was actually amazing way to tell the lore of the game also feels like a great effort for said people, which isn't.


For some players it might've been an amazing way to tell the lore (for me it certainly was); but for some others it was just getting in their way, preventing them from entering into raids. It's not as simple as arguing that those players didn't want to put the effort. In some cases, that content was just not attractive to them, in the same way than for a more PVP-minded player, PVE content is not as appealing as playing, for instante, a Ratted Battleground if given the choice.

Sure, the old attunements were bad, are you claiming it is only possible to do long boring ones? They can be updated for 2012 without being the same as vanilla TBC, attunements should introduce players to playing their class well to progress this journey of character progression is much more engaging and enjoyable than the current 'see the content' journey.


There're almost infinite perceptions of what's considered "playing a class well". What might be acceptable for you as an individual, might not be even close to what should be acceptable for another player, or might be even way too much for a completely different player.

If you ask what's playing a class well to a hardcore PVP player, a Hardcore raider, a casual PVP player, a casual raider... you'll get different answers from all of them.
Edited by Draztal on 04/07/2012 13:30 BST
85 Blood Elf Rogue
11295
Tbf, people adapt. So if attunements were brought back, there would be more of a prestige and value to entering these raids. I also think recruiting someone would add more value, so you don't end up mass recruiting (like many guilds do nowadays) and basically pick and chose, and no one really matters.
I think decisions to take a recruit in should have a little more thought, so you don't just take anything you can to fill that slot.
It's also easier to properly test someone this way.

I don't understand why everything has to be so simplified. By limiting access (or atleast adding "barriers") the content lasts a lot longer.
From my experience, the people complaining at the end TBC (for example), were the hardcores. Cause they'd had content on farm, while the casuals got a chance to work towards something throughout the whole expansion.. And at the very end, they had a chance to see it all, with the 30% nerf.

I also feel this policy applies for everything.. Like values of epics. In Cataclysm's beginning days people valued blues the same way they value epics now.. It's really just a color, and I don't see the problem with epics remaining epics. Them being too available once again makes content last too short, and people end up bored.

I really wish they'd go back to the raid and instance style of TBC. It has a little for everyone. Not everyone can be best at everything, it's time we accept that.

Why nerf instances, because people can't be bothered to press an interrupt or a CC button? What's the problem with effort and teamwork?

In the end, I think the problem is the load of people who started in WOTLK and got used to the easy way. Blizzard should never had gone from such an extreme contrast from TBC. Now there'll be far too many whiners if there's anything added that offers a challenge. Cause if you first got used to WOTLK, then anything is bound to look pretty damn impossible in comparison.

I really wish they'd add attunements, in the end. I never had a problem with this in TBC, and that has nothing to do with nostalgia.
I was really casual back then, but it surely felt satisfying when I knew I had put a lot of effort into content. It felt rewarding itself, and the main focus of the game was not how many epics I could obtain.

The game is what they design it to be.. If the journey is designed to be completed in x amount of time, then step 1/100 will feel thereafter. If step 1 is meant to take 10 minutes, then you won't care too much when you progress. If step 1 is meant to take 60 minutes, it already feels a little more rewarding as you progress. Atleast imo.

I don't think they're gonna go back to this direction though. Blizzard is trying to please everyone (from a naive pov, from a cynical pov they're trying to make the most money possible). Pleasing everyone is never possible.
In the end, I hope they're designing they game the way they want it to be. It's their artwork, and we're just users. I hope they're happy with their product, and that they go their way, no matter what "we" say and want.

Tl;dr = I want attunements back :(
90 Human Paladin
12320
[That's something that Mists of Pandaria will try to improve through various means both when players get to the cap level and on their way there:

-Pet battles
-Daily quests (there's roughly, around 300 daily quests in Mists of Pandaria. Although these are randomized, you'd have around 48 quests available on any given day, and you can do as many of them as you wish).
-Scenarios
-Normal/Heroic dungeons
-Challenge modes (which might be especially appealing to the more hardcore crowd)
-LFR & 10/25 man normal/Heroic raids.


LOL
and what we have today ? ...only thing we dont have is Pet battles ... and wow is boring as hell for last 4-5 months

you think Pet battles will bring that FUN you are talking about ?

The devs would rather give something fun to do to the players than something that might be repetitive

-Daily quests (there's roughly, around 300 daily quests in Mists of Pandaria.
-Normal/Heroic dungeons
-LFR & 10/25 man normal/Heroic raids.


What I want to say is , there is more than enough time for casual and hardcore raiders to finish all thay want with attunements. People who dont want attunements are not that hardcore raiders, its people who are just lazy.
Edited by Windlove on 04/07/2012 15:17 BST
88 Pandaren Warrior
7560


There're almost infinite perceptions of what's considered "playing a class well". What might be acceptable for you as an individual, might not be even close to what should be acceptable for another player, or might be even way too much for a completely different player.

If you ask what's playing a class well to a hardcore PVP player, a Hardcore raider, a casual PVP player, a casual raider... you'll get different answers from all of them.


No sorry, playing your class well can be easily outlined

-timings
-group awareness
-boss awareness
-using all your tools
-positioning
-maximising your roles...role!

Any other 'interpretation' is a lazy one, as missing any of those out is not playing your class well. You bring up PVP, this is where it shines the most, someone isn't aware of abilities? They stick at 1500, they learn or they stay they, they do not get boosted to the same level of gladiators simply because they pay a sub.
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