Please Bring Back Attunements

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29 Gnome Warlock
8760


The devs would rather give something fun to do to the players than something that might be repetitive, not as attractive, or even problematic in the long run (as it happened with attunements in the old days).

That's something that Mists of Pandaria will try to improve through various means both when players get to the cap level and on their way there:

-Pet battles
-Daily quests (there's roughly, around 300 daily quests in Mists of Pandaria. Although these are randomized, you'd have around 48 quests available on any given day, and you can do as many of them as you wish).
-Scenarios
-Normal/Heroic dungeons
-Challenge modes (which might be especially appealing to the more hardcore crowd)
-LFR & 10/25 man normal/Heroic raids.



How exactly are Dailies and multiple versions of the exact same Instance not repetitive?

In fact, their whole purpose (now) IS to be used as repetitive content, content you'll be doing time and time and again to collect some bogus points that most of the time the next Patch will make 100% worthless.

Sorry, but saying that having to finish a Questline just ONCE per character (attunements, Keys) is more repetitive than the gated abomination of Dailies and the point-grindhamsterwheel of doing the same 'Heroic' Instances time and time again over the whole of an Expansion is rather incredidulous.

And of course: perhaps it's for players to decide what they think is fun content?

Look, I undnerstand the issues with the Raid content: it makes no sense to keep sacrificing so much of the game for it (levelling has been ruined because of it for example), and so to justify it a bit, as many people as possible must be rushed to max level to sit in a queue and (hopefully) 'Raid' , and so Raids must be made as accesible as possible.

Which means attunements etc. got the axe.

But the real lesson of those 'only 1% saw naxxramas' figures is that perhaps it makes much more sense to stop concentrating so redciulously much effort on Raiding, and more on the other apsects the game used to have.

If the vast majority of the player base does not Raid

(e.g. http://thegrumpyelf.blogspot.nl/2012/06/is-raid-content-really-compelling.html but there are plenty of other sources)

and in fact the vast majority of the subscribers doesn't even have a single character camping the last bracket
( http://childrenofwrath.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/numbers-20-insight-into-design-theory.html , same) ,
it becomes pretty clear that instead of GC c.s. forcing others to have the same interests, the devs should satrt spending more attention to other parts of the game - and/or to hire new people that can develop such content well

Given the popularity of PvP content

(check Blizzard's own Poll http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1679609273 ; over 70% of the respondents liked one or more types of PvP, the option 'I don't like PvP' was included)

doing a much, MUCH better job with the PvP content and balance (ie the stupid WSG GY change, Heirloom-caused Gear imbalances in regular Battlegrounds etc.) would be far more logical, for example.
90 Draenei Shaman
7780
04/07/2012 13:30Posted by Draztal
Daily quests (there's roughly, around 300 daily quests in Mists of Pandaria. Although these are randomized, you'd have around 48 quests available on any given day, and you can do as many of them as you wish).


Oh good so the inflation issue can get worse with all this extra gold being pumped in...
90 Blood Elf Paladin
18635
agree +5, my vote, w/e thumb up
Bring back Attunements i agree it was fun and ssc/tk raid system style was really Great and it was true challange not like now keal and vashj hardest boss in game well i really like TBC style miss old days </3
90 Worgen Warrior
6530
Surely people are missing the challenging instances rather than the attunements themselves? I find it hard to believe that this many people are missing an arbitrary !@#$-block, for what? If completing shadow labs gave you a sense of achievement there is something wrong with you...
90 Worgen Druid
9355
You know recently i heard a lot of talk on this topic and it seems people(and Blizzard) are mostly bothered by the fact that you have to finish the previous tier to be able to go on to the next one.

In a way it is troublesome but if it were to be brought back it could be done in a better way i mean instead of just farming heroics the devs could come up with a system that instead gives us quests and after a questline through all the heroics(whitch we would do anyways)would reward with the appropriate gear or gems/enchants to move on to the first raid tier.(bare in mind i came up with this idea on the spot so it might be missing some stuff but this is the general idea)

For me the real bother is that i enter a raid instance like a nobody i mean in lore terms i have no reason to be in there so if attunements are not coming back then at least i hope for raid questlines you know kill X boss for rewards maybe ensure people get something even if they dont win rolls, something to tell me"hey ,hey Soilets that guy needs to die and burn or we are screwed"
90 Troll Druid
13520
Not just TBC attunements, but also the ones you needed for onyxia, molten core and blackwing lair. Especially onyxia one was really fun to do.


Although we might look at them with rose-tinted glasses these days, some players back in the days complained that these attunements were too long. Guilds would also complain, eventually, as they had to pick up new recruits and basically run them through "old content" in order to get them up to speed (memory might be playing tricks on me, but I remember this happening when Tier 6 was live).

For those that miss them for the lore they brought, be sure to check the Lorewalker faction in Mists of Pandaria :-)


Attunements don't necessarily need to be as we all remember them, you could even go to the extend of making it a 1-player quest, or against a single mob designed to test the players usage of abilities, after that the latest tier is open.., if anything it would work a whole lot better then the current cheesing ilvl attunement.
Edited by Banzhe on 05/07/2012 08:43 BST
85 Undead Warlock
2380
I remeber when attunements where here I also remember when they were removed. Guess which guikds were happiest? Raiding guilds, for the reason of the blue reply they were getting sick and tired of pulling people through old conmtent to get them attuned only to have some of them jump ship, poaching was a common thing back then.

If attunements were to come back they would as others have suggested have to be different and account wide. Which going by some in the htread would not be what they want they want the old system back.

Time spent does not equal effort or work.
LOL
and what we have today ? ...only thing we dont have is Pet battles ... and wow is boring as hell for last 4-5 months

you think Pet battles will bring that FUN you are talking about ?


Scenarios and Challenge modes are brand new as well. And LFR will be available on every raid at the release of Mists of Pandaria. So it's not exactly the same scene we have currently.

No sorry, playing your class well can be easily outlined
-timings
-group awareness
-boss awareness
-using all your tools
-positioning
-maximising your roles...role!

Any other 'interpretation' is a lazy one, as missing any of those out is not playing your class well. You bring up PVP, this is where it shines the most, someone isn't aware of abilities? They stick at 1500, they learn or they stay they, they do not get boosted to the same level of gladiators simply because they pay a sub.


That's your perception. A PVP player doesn't care about either boss awareness or positioning (not in the same way a PVE player does, at least); and how well you execute your rotation is probably secondary to them as compared to being able to adapt quickly to what your opponent is doing.

How exactly are Dailies and multiple versions of the exact same Instance not repetitive?


If you do just one of those, sure, it'll get repetitive eventually. But if you consider every option, I'd argue there's much more room before you feel you're being repetitive in what you do in-game.
While I'm against Attunements that are just there to block players from content, I really miss the TBC Attunement questchains. Right now they don't deny access to anyone, but they are still there.

That was the thing I missed most with the wrath expansion, huge questchains that route you through all the end content while providung great lore and a reason to go there.

Especially with the raid and dungeon finder, there is no reason at all to not bring back those giant chains that route you through everything an expansion has to offer (at pve)
85 Tauren Shaman
8215
Lawl Instances nowadays are easy for some reason.
Back then Attunements were hard, because there were a small amount people playing and Raids were 40 mans. And we didn't have PUGs Back Then.

You can create Attunements Soloable or even 5-man progressing, because 4.3 5mans are extremely easy and I didn't have any wipes with PUG-s (I made 40-50 runs (DBM Counts)).

And Blizzard are nerfing raid to roots.

Or Blizzard are Blind or I don't know.

Raids and instances were hard and not nerfed back then.
We didn't had LFR and LFG Tools.

05/07/2012 09:22Posted by Draztal
A PVP player doesn't care about either boss awareness or positioning (not in the same way a PVE player does, at least);


PVP Players play PVP Dogdammit not PVE or You now Care about PVP doing PVE without learning basic tactics?

05/07/2012 09:22Posted by Draztal
Scenarios and Challenge modes are brand new as well. And LFR will be available on every raid at the release of Mists of Pandaria. So it's not exactly the same scene we have currently.

Do you think Speedrunning 5man is funny? Don't we have Zul'Aman?
LFR isn't funny at all. It's just Loot Whining. And LFR mechanics doesn't compare with Normal or Heroic.

I thought Deathwing would be badass and we can encouter LAST
Boss and World Destroyer on Heroic only. But Now you can easily kill puny world destroyer in LFR. Besides all Deathwing is not badass. Don't you remember Kil'Jaeden? M'uru? How hard was that.

Even Sinestra (Consort of Deathwing) is harder than Him.

Everything now is casual and we can't do anything about that.
Edited by Гвоздевик on 05/07/2012 09:52 BST
85 Worgen Warlock
13750
Yes for attunements! While the original Vanilla/TBC design for entering raids was maybe too restricted for the general population of players we are seeing these days, it gave every single raider the feeling that they have achieved something worth noting (Hand of Ad'al title anyone?). I realise that the design for content has shifted towards allowing as many people to see as much content as possible, but isn't that the purpose of the staggered nerfs you've been introducing into the Normal and Heroic raid instances? As it stands, clearing 8/8 in Heroic Dragon Soul isn't an acomplishment. It seems like endgame raiding is being catered for too many people than it should be, but bringing back attunements, even to a lesser extent of having to clear previous content and complete a quest to advance, would definitely fulfil a massive hole for a lot of players who are struggling to find reasons to turn up for raids. Sure when new content is released everyone wants to be a raider, but when you see "LFM DS Hc 6/8" on everyone's alt in Trade chat, it's rather disheartening for those who struggled or are still struggling to play their main at even only a slightly higher standard than pugs.

All I'm really trying to say is attunements should be something required to enter the next tier of raids, which would allow almost every person who wishes to raid to be able to enter these instances and see the content you want them to. But for the more serious raider or raiding guild, it gives them something to prove that they cleared this content when it was currently the most challenging content in-game and they are rewarded with instant access to the next raid. So what if pugs or alts need to spend a week or 2 trying to finish their attunement for previous raids before being allowed into the newest raid, don't make it too hard but still make it a requirement. I think you'll find people will still do them and not so many will whine about the effort required because they are earning something out of it. I think it's wrong that new alts have access to almost instant Dragon Soul raiding after being freshly-dinged and attunements could be a way of asking them to try a little bit harder and experience all the content you intended them to.
Edited by Stonedeads on 05/07/2012 09:55 BST
90 Gnome Warlock
11130
Ill never forget the great adventure I had with windsor - nor the horrific ending at the hands of nefarians foul descendant..
When I first went into that lair I felt like jumping through the screen to show that dragon whats what.

All arguments of repetitive dungeons aside, ( I mean weve had meta achievements instead of 'challenge mode' before .. theres only so many times you can put a new sticker on 6 instances before you get bored). The attunements really did bring you up to speed of what was atually going on, why are you taking a group of ppl,jump in a lake and swim down a giant pump ?(ssc anyone?)

And whilst im very reluctant to go with 'people complained on the forums' argument , just because a very select few actually voice their crisism here, I can only imagine the attunements felt obligatory if you had to do them on multiple characters .. also , the attunement quests were all very soloable - rendering the 'o guilds were complaining (srsly how do you confirm a guild is complaining btw) mute.

anyways, attunements were awsum ; recycling the same content over n over isnt fun (albeit a possible neccesity) and pet battles will most likely be like the plants vs zombie quest that was so hyped, fun for a day then hardly used... ever.

PS. id like to add that both LFR and multiple servers on a zone are my top 2 worst ideas ever.. absolutely horrible, guaranteed server community killer ( or whats left of it)
Edited by Erfan on 05/07/2012 09:56 BST
90 Human Paladin
12320
And LFR will be available on every raid.


GOOD, we have crap LFR for ''casual'' players ... right ?

what stops you from initiation attunements again for ''normal'' raids?

05/07/2012 09:22Posted by Draztal
If you do just one of those, sure, it'll get repetitive eventually. But if you consider every option, I'd argue there's much more room before you feel you're being repetitive in what you do in-game.


its like you lvl random char every day ...
...first night elf...I do all quests (about 40) in Teldrassil
...second draenei...I do all quests in Azuremyst Isle
...third human... all quests in Elwynn Forest
...fourth gnom... all quests in Dun Morogh
...fifth dwarf ... same as gnom

After the fifth day repeat all over again...yea its not boring and they are not repetitive...sure
90 Undead Warlock
10905
05/07/2012 09:22Posted by Draztal
If you do just one of those, sure, it'll get repetitive eventually. But if you consider every option, I'd argue there's much more room before you feel you're being repetitive in what you do in-game.
With all due respect, waiting the better part of a year for the devs to roll up an expansion (which will need to be paid for), and that being used as an excuse of not adding any content to the current game.... Stale comes to mind over repetitive, but both are valid.

Also, during that year, for some reason HC gets nerfed to the ground? For what reason again (genuine question)?

If the nerfs are "so that everyone gets to experience the instance", wasn't LFR for those purposes and normal mode?

You effectively took all the challenge out of the game, leaving a game without reason to log.

You're welcome to look at my user account history to see my activity since this game went live. It's not that I've become bored with the concept of the game, I like the game.
But I'm not offered any content. No challenges left, no hope for a content update due to the upcoming release. sure there's a lull between expansions, but this one is different in concept due to the game's perpetual changing nature.

Those changes aver the whole are fine. However, with that the attitude should change as well.

I'm left with nothing but the disrespectful "soon" meme. Which is quite frankly a bad attitude at this point.

I'm sure your secret metrics will show that not that many are interested in playing anymore, and when you can't retain your playerbase, it's going to be next to impossible to get those people to come back again.

Draztal, you argue there is more room. I'll counter argue that pigeon holing us while degrading the content and not taking measurements to prevent people from getting bored or fed up makes your statement quite truthfully a bit insulting.

Take it as you like, I'm not attacking you, just strongly expressing my personal experiences versus my worries in the chosen path. I would like to enjoy the game I like. I really would, but you're making it hard for me. Currently the only thing keeping me here are the social bonds, but guess what, they feel the same and are leaving one by one too, effectively eliminating my need to log.

An open discussion about this with the devs and management of this game is not in this company's nature, I know, but perhaps it's time. They already do so to an extend in the US, but EU players seem left out here completely but for the token gesture every blue Monday..

Take it as you want, but things are not moving up, and repeating "MoP" as a mantra will not solve these issues.
85 Night Elf Druid
1905
if LFR will be available on every raid. its good for casual players so they dont qq about attunement system and if blizzard bring back attunements for normal/heroic mode will be fun again i want attunement back again really was fun :)
Edited by Forestsoñg on 05/07/2012 10:09 BST
if blizzard bring back attunements for normal/heroic mode will be fun again i want attunement back again really was fun :)


I doubt it was very fun for the players that were being told "no, sorry, you need to get these attunements to join our guild" and was being rejected when he said "but noone is running these right now because it's not current content anymore".

Was it fun when it was current content? For some. For some others it was just another unnecesary wall preventing them from getting to the content they really wanted to do (raiding).
90 Human Warlock
14085
if LFR will be available on every raid. its good for casual players so they dont qq about attunement system and if blizzard bring back attunements for normal/heroic mode will be fun again i want attunement back again really was fun :)

Still fun on the 5th alt you dragged through it?
90 Draenei Hunter
13355
doubt it was very fun for the players that were being told "no, sorry, you need to get these attunements to join our guild" and was being rejected when he said "but noone is running these right now because it's not current content anymore".

Was it fun when it was current content? For some. For some others it was just another unnecesary wall preventing them from getting to the content they really wanted to do (raiding).


you can change it to "guild attunements"
Edited by Portogas on 05/07/2012 10:45 BST
85 Tauren Shaman
8215
05/07/2012 10:27Posted by Draztal
I doubt it was very fun for the players that were being told "no, sorry, you need to get these attunements to join our guild" and was being rejected when he said "but noone is running these right now because it's not current content anymore".


IF THERE WILL BE ATTUNEMENTS, PUGS WILL MAKE A RAID TO COMPLETE IT.

BRING RAID PROGRESSION BACK LIKE IN VANILLA AND TBC THEN
Edited by Гвоздевик on 05/07/2012 10:55 BST
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