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How about the attunements for SSC and TK that became Guild wide? Why not implement such attunements? I really enjoyed doing those questchains, it gave a story to the game which has completely disappeared now. Today it is just mindless grinding for valor and conquest points. /4 LFG: LFM Jailbreak! haha those times.. |
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Edited by Azamaan on 01/08/12 14:35 (BST)
On a seriouse note; I can make input on both sides.
I was a GM and a raid leader in vanilla. I started my guild semi-late (after the release of Zul'Gurub) and attunements first came to be a massive problem for me - and us - when we were going to do Onyxia. I'd like to add that well geared and attuned people were hard to come by since there were alot of end-game guilds on Darksorrow. For those who didn't play vanilla or did the attunement - You had to travel to UBRS (upper black rock spire) and finish the last boss in order to get a drop so a player or two could get attuned. This took a massive amount of time but would have been fine if it were attractive enough for people to do it. Alas, it was not. I personally DRAGGED my guildmates there and ran UBRS 12-days straight, all day, all evening and into the night to get our guild attuned. Needless to say, not many people in their right minds would do this, but I felt obligated after gathering all these people and to make the guild progress. In the end, the reward for me and my guild was a massive sense of accomplishment after many nights of raiding we finally downed Onyxia and were being able to start downing her every week. In my opinion attunements can be good as long as they are fun to do. What I just wrote is a good example of when attunements become straight up problematic for a guild because it's not fun enough for the casual guy to do in his spare time. I am for attunements, just make them fun enough for people to do them, they can't become a hardship. (the travel time from Orgrimmar to Burning steppes in vanilla didn't help either). |
On a seriouse note; I can make input on both sides.I feel your pain. I was the GM durning Vanilla as well. However, instead of dragging, we had a very attractive guild. At that time it was easy to say to everyone "be attuned before next week, or be looking for another raiding guild since you don't seem serious about it". Way more effective and time consuming then dragging people :D |
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Edited by Cutiepi on 01/08/12 14:50 (BST)
More good news from developers! I really am starting to like you recently. No sarcasm intended I think such trivial matters are a waste of development time. |
That really is a shame. The progressive model as it was in TBC was the best choice in my opinion. You really felt like you accomplished something when you were finally eligible to enter the next raid tier and the best positive aspect directly connected to this is that every content actually mattered. It wasn't like today that the old raid tier becomes obsolete as soon as a content patch hits. Nobody does BWD, TotfW or BoT anymore at this point. Back in TBC at the end of the expansion there were still guilds doing Karazhan, Gruul or Magtheridon. Of course you say: "But you still have the possibility to go there." - that's right, but nobody does that, because there ain't no incentive. And by the way, my whole post has nothing to do with nostalgia or your "rose colored glasses", it's just that I had the best experience playing the game back in the day. I liked the feeling of accomplishment and the first time I entered Black Temple when I thought "Me and my group made it to finally be in this awesome zone." beats my Madness of Deathwing HC firstkill a dozen times. |
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Thats why we now have LFR, and the so called "old content" wasn't that onld in TBC because you had multi tier raiding with steady ilvl progress instead of the current "raid the last tier only cause everything you had became immediately obsolete with the new free loot you get from LFR and LFG" policy mess. Fix that ilvl bloating stupidity, make LFR what it should be (easy PUG into the normal raids) and then the "attunements" will actually be a good thing for the LFR system to work better, helping new players to 'experience content' in the Lore order of events wile teaching them how to play with a progressive learning curve. or just keep shoving us with your crap saying 'everything is ok' until you end up out of a job like many other colleagues of yours early this year... |
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Honestly, I would support the return of Attunements for the purpose of proper integrity in the end-game content.
However, an attunement as I have seen as being perceived in this topic is not the way it should be handled. Since the word is too traumatizing to some, lets call it a layer barrier and lets call the process of moving through in acquiring them as a layered progression. First and foremost, with the addition of LFD and LFR, the main problem that made those layer barrier frustrating was the complex access mechanism to keys and instances. Why? You needed persistent groups to complete these layer barriers, as it did take long and pre-2.1 every group member needed a key. Even though this was everyone can loot the key post-2.1 it still had its ups and downs. The key problem was that, you had to be spending too much time grouping up and clearing these instances to progress through each different layer and player replacement due to its manual nature was a main problem. However, now it has all changed. Do you need to enter an instance to get something, you just queue up and can do other things in the meanwhile rather committing to a guild or screaming in the trade chat for hours. The only part that would be reminiscent of the past experience would be that you would need to beat the relevant end-game content to see the newer things and get shinier things. However, with the current model this is not case as a player can access the newest content without having to see any other content(aka no need to do t11 and t12 to access t13). The very concept of having to skip content is something that essentially kills the game as in how it those players not play the game. Frankly, this plays out as if the new tier is just a blockbuster and a conclusion to an epic series that the audience get to watch only to spit on as how nothing makes sense to them due to not watching the previous parts of the series. I don't know about you guys but I would feel disheartened if someone would have such an attitude towards my work due to their failure in being a proper audience or playerbase. The game needs the attunements or any form of proper layered progression. |
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Seriously Draztal, which players? I don't remember it taking more than a night to do the Arcatraz runs for my entire raid roster. Karazhan attunement was good for my guild as they really had a sense of being working together towards a goal outside regular raiding. If you wanna go further I don't remember to spend more than a week to get everyone ready to enter Onyxia's lair back in Vanilla. You know this depends directly on how much a guild want to organize itself. Don't make it appear like it took ages to get those attunements done. Cause your blue word is stronger than regular words and players who entered World of Warcraft after them being removed may think that it was a pain to get them done. Your memory certainly is playing tricks on you, because most of semi-hardcore guilds had from nothing to absolutely zero trouble attuning a new member since it took one day of SSC&TK while still progressing through Hyjal and Black Temple. Who complained? SK-Gaming? Nihilum? Don't make it appear like it was a wall for guilds, cause it wasn't for most of us. For my guildmates it was a motivation.[/quote] For those that miss them for the lore they brought, be sure to check the Lorewalker faction in Mists of Pandaria :-)No comment about this. |
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Edited by Aragnon on 01/08/12 17:00 (BST)
I hated attunements way back in classic, and in BC they were even more evil. Good that they removed all of these things nowadays.
The best of these things at least i think was back in Naxxramas in Classic: No requirements if you were exalted by the Argent Dawn, but very expensive if you were only friendly with them. If something like this would return; attunements even doable solo (even if it is extreme hard), this would be ok. But not like in BC; they were simply bad. I think the best way for "attunements" would be not to punish people who don't have it; instead reward player that have them. A Questline that finishes in the raid-instance, and if you have the quest, there is some extra-loot. This loot is like the loot in LFR: everyone that have the quest done have a chance to get the extra loot; shared loot that is class and spec or some vanity-items. It should not kill someone who don't want to do this sort of attunement, but people who do it get some extra reward. |
Your memory certainly is playing tricks on you, because most of semi-hardcore guilds had from nothing to absolutely zero trouble attuning a new member since it took one day of SSC&TK while still progressing through Hyjal and Black Temple. Who complained? SK-Gaming? Nihilum? Don't make it appear like it was a wall for guilds, cause it wasn't for most of us. For my guildmates it was a motivation. Yes, because normal people have the time to raid SSC&TK in one day. Maybe it works for something who don't have a life, but not for the average player. Back in the day it was so: Your tank is ill: ok, that's all folks, because even a good tank that have at least gear that is good enough cannot come with you to the black temple, because he didn't have the vial of SSC. Even more, the guild already did Caverns of Time, so even if you did SSC for only one player for one night, you cannot attune him to the black temple, because you need the phylactery of the first boss to get to the black temple. Attunements were crap, nothing more, nothing less. The only thing i miss on attunements is the lore behind it, but this is even doable without this attunement-crap. |
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Edited by Lyme on 01/08/12 17:15 (BST)
Could you ask them why they think artificial solid wall road blocks seem like a better route to them? This new gating system they're proposing is even worse than the old attunements! |
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Edited by Oomb on 01/08/12 17:14 (BST)
How about the attunements for SSC and TK that became Guild wide? Why not implement such attunements? np they will need to plan better after Activision Blizzard Q1 2013 Conference Call, as they will need to explain why there is downgrade/stagnation in subs while in TBC they had growth. numbers dont lie.... |
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Attunements are a needless barrier, especially if they come with a Burning Crusade style gearing system, personally I never want to see that again.
Having to do a quest through the heroic dungeons to open up the *first* raid, that's fine, but after that it gets horrible. I for one would not want to run through the whole of Blackwing Descent, Temple of Four Winds, Bastion of Twilight and Firelands (especially having to kill Raggy) every time someone new wanted to raid with us in Dragon Soul. It's just a colossal waste of time for the other 9/24 people. |
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That does not mean that guild wide attunements would be a bad idea. |
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Edited by Droïn on 02/08/12 13:15 (BST)
Well, you're looking at the implementation of an attunement in the current situation. Attunements are an old given which only counts for old, long going content. Ofcourse today it would be a huge waste of time. Because once a new patch is live, the previous content is worth crap. However back in classic and tbc all the content from start to end was considered as current content and was played from Molten Core to Naxxramas or for TBC Karazhan up to Sunwell plateau. Doing an achievement back then wasn't a waste of time because the content was still very actively played. If you want to implement an attunement today it will be very hard. People are lazy and don't wanna work for their gear and 'to see the content', and on the other hand, who wants to get an attunement for content that will only be good for few months or even weeks? |
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I completely agree with bringing back attunements i've just come back from a year out and it doesn't feel like i've missed anything. The raids i've missed don't matter, I can go straight to the last raid after a tiny bit of gearing, thats just laugh out loud funny and not enjoyable, more than that I can do it all without people i've never met in game and am not likely to see again or remember.
Attunements meant you had to work with other players from the same realm to prove you were good enough for a raid or dungeon heroic and that made sense. Not within a month I can take on Deathwing, apparently a super hard dragon in special armor who can cause massive damage all over azeroth tearing the land apart. Lets make people feel good for finally getting into higher level raids rather than "right, i'm item level 370 lets take down Deatwing". Lets say "i'm item level 370, time I can finally get that attunement done". It felt so good entering Kara for the first time then and knowing when the guild was geared enough we could enter SSC and TK so on, of course this meant people were pleased with upgrades no matter who it went to it benefitted the whole guild rather than an individual. It also meant there was always something to look foward to and work for. Bring back attunements, bring back the life essence of wow, create unity not division. |
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Didn't the community make it clear enough already? Bring them back in some sort of better form, I personally don't know how, but just bring em back. Bring the journey back we had to accomplish to feel like a hero.
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