Veteran Players

90 Orc Hunter
8515
31/07/2012 01:57Posted by Rorcanna
No, it didn't. It took more time and more people and everything was new, not as much theorycrafting, not as many abilities and so on. Saying that it took more skill than the evolved World of Warcraft with the boss mechanics we see today is just...wrong.


No it did, you had no questhelper addons, you had no flying mounts, you needed to know what you were doing a damned sight more than you do now, and that took skill, Those days you had to look for quests, work on what you wanted to do, not get led along like you do now. That did mean more skill, more planning, more dedication to an extent. I would like to imagine the uproar if Blizz brought back those quests that took hours to do due to the fact that the chain took you from one continent to the other, running all the way.
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90 Orc Rogue
14110
31/07/2012 06:49Posted by Spiketcat
No, it didn't. It took more time and more people and everything was new, not as much theorycrafting, not as many abilities and so on. Saying that it took more skill than the evolved World of Warcraft with the boss mechanics we see today is just...wrong.


No it did, you had no questhelper addons, you had no flying mounts, you needed to know what you were doing a damned sight more than you do now, and that took skill, Those days you had to look for quests, work on what you wanted to do, not get led along like you do now. That did mean more skill, more planning, more dedication to an extent. I would like to imagine the uproar if Blizz brought back those quests that took hours to do due to the fact that the chain took you from one continent to the other, running all the way.


you had no boss mods, no threat metre etc etc

The good old, "ok tanks go, wait wait, wait are 5 sunders up yet?" ok dps go, but easy dps"
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90 Orc Hunter
8515
ou had no boss mods, no threat metre etc etc

The good old, "ok tanks go, wait wait, wait are 5 sunders up yet?" ok dps go, but easy dps"


Exactly, not to mention knowing how to CC, actually knowing the tactics needed to take the boss down, the dedication to run LBRS due to its length, Alot of the skill involved in Vanilla has been lost due to addons. And it didnt have bloody recount, which was another good thing.

lol and the 5mins Pally buffs
Edited by Spiketcat on 31/07/2012 06:58 BST
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85 Goblin Shaman
11870
Gives some people a false sense of importance. When really, no one gives a crap.
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- World of Warcraft
100 Gnome Mage
14790
As a "Bannana" player I approve of this thread...

...carry on


High five!! o/\o I think it will catch on soon!
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90 Human Warrior
18725
31/07/2012 06:49Posted by Spiketcat
No, it didn't. It took more time and more people and everything was new, not as much theorycrafting, not as many abilities and so on. Saying that it took more skill than the evolved World of Warcraft with the boss mechanics we see today is just...wrong.


No it did, you had no questhelper addons, you had no flying mounts, you needed to know what you were doing a damned sight more than you do now, and that took skill, Those days you had to look for quests, work on what you wanted to do, not get led along like you do now. That did mean more skill, more planning, more dedication to an extent. I would like to imagine the uproar if Blizz brought back those quests that took hours to do due to the fact that the chain took you from one continent to the other, running all the way.


You had no in-game questhelper so you searched for Jame's Alliance/Horde Guide; and then someone made in-game addons. Similarly with dungeon maps, boss guides etc.

Basically internet killed the concept of such discovery and blizzard had to adapt. Yes, they could introduce new unknown quests (with randomized drops etc) - but it will just be a short time before someone makes a guide listing the place(s) for drops etc. They could ban addons, but then it will just be a web-page, etc. Regardless of whether you see the change as good or bad, it is not possible to turn back the time.

So to make players fly around the world they instead introduced achievments, archeology and pet-battles.
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90 Night Elf Druid
11930
30/07/2012 18:54Posted by Fránco
I do not understand why the people that supposedly played in vanilla feel the need to brag about it all the time. It doesnt seem like that big of a deal. Sure vanilla might of been cool but if it was that good blizzard would surely take it back.


Just ignore those who praise vanilla above all else in wow.

It's not the game that is bad , it's the players .

People don't care to wait for a raid to be full , people leave after one wipe, people care more about their dps metters in dungeons then with the tactics.

So what I'm trying to say is , it's the players that kinda killed the feeling of mutual help and friendship in-game.

P.S: Cataclism was really bad to tell the truth!
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90 Night Elf Priest
6080


Just ignore those who praise vanilla above all else in wow.

It's not the game that is bad , it's the players .

People don't care to wait for a raid to be full , people leave after one wipe, people care more about their dps metters in dungeons then with the tactics.

So what I'm trying to say is , it's the players that kinda killed the feeling of mutual help and friendship in-game.

P.S: Cataclism was really bad to tell the truth!


This Night Elf speaks the truth.

It is/was the players more than content that made that time special.

Todays culture is driven by rubbishing anyone else who has a thought different than their own. It seems to be a weakness to like others.
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90 Undead Death Knight
15715
I've played since Straciatella and I think Vanilla players just think they're better than Mango-Strawberry players because they want to feel superior although they are usually god-awful.
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76 Undead Priest
1010
31/07/2012 01:57Posted by Rorcanna
The reason is because the game required more skill in Vanilla and TBC than it does now


No, it didn't.


Ye, it did.


/got 2 brothers who raided Vanilla up to Firelands HC. They just laugh at the people acting high and mighty and trying to make Vanilla WoW out to be the pinnacle of gaming.


Cause it isnt.
But it sure as hell required more from players then the game does now.
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90 Pandaren Hunter
13770
31/07/2012 02:42Posted by Pilspetsen
Stop dragging your two brothers into the discussion, if they feel the need to troll then let them do it themselves.


Troll? Because they keep a healthy outlook on this game? Hah. How about YOU stop trying to police and tell others to not post? It doesn't belong on a forum you know. As you know, it's impossible to post on the forums without being subbed.

Vanilla was not more demanding in skill due to mechanics, it was more demanding due to time needed to get someplace, players being new to the concept and there being a need for much bigger groups of people to coordinate. THAT'S it. You and others just want Vanilla to be seen as the pinnacle of gaming in order to demean what we have today and the players that began playing later on. That's all there is to this discussion.

Saying that the game took more skill back then is just being unable to differ between memories and reality. The game was extremely different in layout and features, it doesn't take SKILL to grind for hours and months to get a reward. It takes patience and lots of free time. I'm confident that as a player who began in Wrath, I'd have no problem going to Vanilla and raid. Did the best players back then have skill? Of course, just as today, but claiming that just existing in the World of Warcraft back then took immense skill is so silly.

The discussion really reminds me of old people trying to preach about how hard it was for them to just live back in the days, as if todays generations wouldn't have been able to handle it.
Edited by Rorcanna on 31/07/2012 11:47 BST
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90 Pandaren Hunter
13770
31/07/2012 06:49Posted by Spiketcat
No it did, you had no questhelper addons, you had no flying mounts, you needed to know what you were doing a damned sight more than you do now, and that took skill, Those days you had to look for quests, work on what you wanted to do, not get led along like you do now. That did mean more skill, more planning, more dedication to an extent. I would like to imagine the uproar if Blizz brought back those quests that took hours to do due to the fact that the chain took you from one continent to the other, running all the way.


It doesn't equal to needing MORE skill. It was different and people adapt. If the game had remained the same as back then to this day, then people would be INCREDIBLY bored by now with the mechanics, time requiered even for the smallest of progression and the lack of mechanics.

I know for a fact that there was plenty of bad players back then as well who made it to level 60 and even saw content. As long as they had time to spare. Just as today, they never got to the top of the content.
Edited by Rorcanna on 31/07/2012 11:48 BST
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90 Night Elf Priest
6080
As a "veteran" player I can confirm what Rorcannna has just said. It did not take skill to progress only time.

It took far longer to do quests due to the runaround nature of them and no mounts until 40 AND the flight paths being few and needed to stop at each flight point to go to the next.

There were still people who afk'd raids then and BG's so nothing really has changed except time taken to do things.
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94 Human Paladin
15510
Let's complain about the old heroes who fought in 'Nam now we're at it shall we.

"Back then we didn't have those fancy radar thingies, those hand-held weapons of mass destruction, those heat seeking scopes etc, we had to use our basic instincts to stay alive, use common sense and good co-ordination in order to take down the enemy."

"Oh, so that means you where a better soldier does it? You make me sick thinking that you are more experienced, more wise and dedicated than me who sits in a HQ waiting for the next dot on my screen to appear, which I then click on to win at this war.. You are a disgrace!"

Having played since Vanilla, I know what I'm talking about.

On a more serious note tho, Vanilla players who actually played SINCE Vanilla and not IN Vanilla tend to be more experienced and dedicated, and most of all more patient that "new" players.

I speak from experience, leading a guild where my players range from Vanilla players to Cata starters, and I can easily tell from the attitude of 99% of those players, when they actually started playing.

I have TBC/Wrath players who gives up on HC progress after 3 wipes whereas my Vanilla players just shrug their shoulders saying that we eventually will get it down. I have Cata babies thinking that LFR is end-game content and similar to Normal/HC (doable with brain turned off).
Overall, my Vanilla players are more punctual, shows up for raid when they are supposed to, where Wrath/Cata players tend to be late or stays away.

I am not saying that "new" players are bad players, nor do I think that the majority of the people saying they played in Vanilla is trying to.
I'm just saying that I would pick any Vanilla player over a Wrath/Cata player, mainly due to the experience they have with the game.

What I don't get, is why you feel butthurt over someone saying they played since Vanilla, thus having experience from 7-8 years of this game. Does that make you feel small and un-experienced in comparison? If so, it might be true.
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31/07/2012 11:46Posted by Rorcanna
No it did, you had no questhelper addons, you had no flying mounts, you needed to know what you were doing a damned sight more than you do now, and that took skill, Those days you had to look for quests, work on what you wanted to do, not get led along like you do now. That did mean more skill, more planning, more dedication to an extent. I would like to imagine the uproar if Blizz brought back those quests that took hours to do due to the fact that the chain took you from one continent to the other, running all the way.


It doesn't equal to needing MORE skill. It was different and people adapt. If the game had remained the same as back then to this day, then people would be INCREDIBLY bored by now with the mechanics, time requiered even for the smallest of progression and the lack of mechanics.

I know for a fact that there was plenty of bad players back then as well who made it to level 60 and even saw content. As long as they had time to spare. Just as today, they never got to the top of the content.


I have only played since Wrath, (so I am sure my opinion means bugger all to some people) but my other half who got me started on this game has played WoW since Vanilla - and although he loved it, he pretty much feels the same as you, judging from your quote here, which somewhat confirms (my own personal view) that back in Vanilla, WoW was new, amazing, fresh and the community was a lot smaller - so naturally, original players look back with fondness and - let's be honest - a certain amount of rose-tinted nostalgia goggles when discussing certain aspects of Vanilla WoW.

I heard about how you used to have to wait for ages to construct a dungeon or a raid group then after all that wait, someone would drop out, just before you got started - therefore you would have to start the search again - repeatedly running back and forth to the LFG channel in the cities and back to all the instances whist trying to faff around with organising people who kept dropping out must have been a nightmare, and as you say, time consuming and for other stuff ridiculously grindy. With no flying mounts. Which, as you correctly point out, is not really down to skill, but down to people having a lot more free time and patience!

However, having said that, I am sure boss fights then were a different story which required more knowledge than today, to be honest.
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60 Human Paladin
5360
Vanilla was a different game to what it is now.

My concern is how much easier it gets with each expansion and how they cater way too much for casual players.

Fingers crossed for MOP
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90 Human Mage
8875
Lol vanilla sucked balls, was a no lifer game.

Not that cata is better but atleast you don't have to be 24/7 365 for gain a pvp rank now.
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85 Blood Elf Hunter
850
The only thing vanilla players have on anyone else is obviously bottomless wells of grind patience.

I started playing in TBC and I got to lvl 51 after 4 months before I ran out myself.

They probably buy into the grandfather concept.

For thousands of years working knowledge was preserved by men and women who had used it their whole lives, thus older players are handy for specific questions about the game (where do I find this, etc).

Shame Wohead, Google and the cataclysm on vanilla rendered them obsolete.
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Community
You're right, that actually tends to happen, it's easy to fall into that kind of discourse, although it doesn't necessarily make anyone's opinion more valid than anyone else’s, and quite often that kind of speech tends to be very nostalgic and distorts reality, making it hard to show an impartial opinion.

Still, for the players that experienced it, myself included, it is quite a big deal, and naturally so, but that doesn't mean that the game was better back then, on the contrary, the game has improved immensely since then. It is only normal for players that experienced it to sometimes claim that they miss certain features or actually miss the lack of them (flying mounts, 40man raids, no LFR, no content skipping, etc.).

I must admit that occasionally I say the same thing as well, but not with the intention of making my opinion seem more important, it frequently happens when I'm talking about the game’s evolution.
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90 Gnome Warlock
0
Hah, I get to have my PvP replica gear for bragging rights and that's as far as it goes. :P
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