What purpose does LFR have?

3 Human Mage
0


no they wont. this boils down to other people being allowed to see the same content for nothing. while its relevant you should work for the right to see the content.


Content is tiered. They see watered down versions of the bosses and receive watered down rewards. The harder they work the more challenging and enjoyable the content and the more desirable the rewards.

Blizzard throw them a few scraps like this because they like the money that 90% of their customers give them. You are being blown out of the water in a bidding war. You can't win, you can't even lose gracefully. From a financial perspective you are being annihilated.
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90 Human Hunter
9250


So the majority wants to be bored much faster than before 4.3?


More people are using DS now than were using FL at its peak.


Yes, because they are coerced to. Inflated numbers because of a different progression environment than before 4.3.

FL had no LFR, DS does. You can't compare them that way.
Edited by Karlotte on 06/08/2012 18:12 BST
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85 Dwarf Hunter
1710


no they wont. this boils down to other people being allowed to see the same content for nothing. while its relevant you should work for the right to see the content.


Content is tiered. They see watered down versions of the bosses and receive watered down rewards. The harder they work the more challenging and enjoyable the content and the more desirable the rewards.

Blizzard throw them a few scraps like this because they like the money that 90% of their customers give them. You are being blown out of the water in a bidding war. You can't win, you can't even lose gracefully. From a financial perspective you are being annihilated.


You came from Wall Street or what?
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3 Human Mage
0


FL had no LFR, DS does. You can't compare them that way.


Hello McFly (*taps on your head with my knuckles*), anyone home? Think McFly!!!

What purpose does RF have?

Turning content that is a financial disaster and a complete flop into something with a viable future with lots of people using it!
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81 Blood Elf Paladin
4715
LFR is really like firing up your PlayStation / Xbox.

i.e You pop your disc into your console, play it for half an hour. Turn off console.

i.e = Pop LFR, play it for half an hour. Log out WoW.


...I'm sorry but when the hell did the best selling MMORPG of all time cater to the console player? Talk about dumb the game down... where on Azeroth has the challenge gone?

If certain player types don't have the time for this, then sincerely, put down & p*$$ off. You are ruining it... all of it... every last god damn aspect of it.

I crave the day I die a bazillion times levelling and cant ride a damn ground mount until level 60. I crave it. I don't want god mode any-more... it's pap!!!
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90 Human Hunter
9250


FL had no LFR, DS does. You can't compare them that way.


Hello McFly (*taps on your head with my knuckles*), anyone home? Think McFly!!!

What purpose does RF have?

Turning content that is a financial disaster and a complete flop into something with a viable future with lots of people using it!


Thank you, Captain Obvious, for your contribution.
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Community
I think this is an extremely sensitive topic and I would like to approach it very carefully.
First I think we have to realize that WoW is not just any game, it unleashes very passionate feelings on its players. It’s been a part of everyone’s life for so long that it has acquired a status that sometimes can rival many things in real life, it’s an amazing game, it really is, and you know this, otherwise you wouldn’t be here wasting your precious time discussing about how to improve it.
But you do take that time to help us improve our games, and you deserve to be heard, more so, we really want and need to hear what you have to say, you are the reason we have a community department. One of the biggest advantages of having this level of interaction is that we can act as intermediaries between you and the developers, and this is where your feedback comes in.

We realize that LFR is a controversial feature and you can rest assured that we are paying full attention to the impact it has over our community. Some of us do share a lot of your concerns, but as always, we’re all different players, with different perspectives and objectives, so opinions on the matter will vary greatly.

What I really want to emphasize here is that we really do hear all of you.
As a company we obviously need to have a common vision, planning, strategy, and goal, but understand that individually, most of us play our games just as passionately as you do. We all experience what you experience and this includes developers, game designers and project managers, and most importantly, we all have our own different opinions. It’s from the gathering and discussion of these opinions and the ones from our players that together we can reach a common vision with the common goal of making our games the best that they can possibly be.
Still you must realize that game designers can’t take in all feedback and apply it directly to the game, that’s why they were selected as game designers, they are great at making decisions, and these can be really tough to make sometimes, which is why changes usually cause controversy.
When LFR came out I too had quite a few concerns about it, just like I’m sure many of you had, and obviously, still have to this day.
LFR is still considered a new feature, we’re constantly evaluating its receptivity and its role on filling the gap between casual players and raiding without having it ruin anyone else’s game experience, it’s currently being tweaked for MoP and I’m sure it will continue to be adjusted until devs are completely satisfied with it.

Having said that, I would like give a few updates about LFR and its future in MoP.
We know that currently some guilds will feel that they aren’t maximizing their potential if they don’t run LFR to get particular pieces of gear and tier set bonuses when they’re starting to progress through DS, but for MoP you can expect LFR to provide very little competitive advantage (if any) to those guilds and here’s why:
  • We’re delaying LFR by one week, we don’t think there is a real need to delay it further than that. It would be an unnecessary punishment to players not in organized guilds because chances are that the real hardcore guilds out there will be able to clear Mogu'shan Vaults on normal difficulty within the first week of its release, which by the time they will be eligible to run LFR, they will also be eligible to start progressing on Heroic mode.
    So within a couple of weeks, LFR should serve almost no purpose to any hardcore raiding guild.
  • We must not forget that there is also another reason why those guilds feel that they’re currently “forced” to run LFR, and that reason is, because they can increase their members' chances of winning items by playing the loot system, which they won’t be able to do anymore in Mists of Pandaria with the changes we’ve introduced to the looting system.


Also here’s a brief plan about how raids will open on the LFR:
- Mogu'shan Vaults will be split into two tiers, and each tier will have three bosses. Both of those tiers will be available one week after the release of the normal raid, and you will have to clear the first tier before being able to queue for the second one.
- Heart of Fear will work in a similar way and will be split into two dungeons for LFR, each with three bosses.
- Terrace of Endless Spring will be one single dungeon queue.
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A game need to be difficult so the players will have something to look forward to. With LFR all players will be able to see the same content and they don't even have to work to get there. In TBC you did a great job because some of the raiding dungeons were too difficult and that's just good, because people will work harder too see that content.
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
15355
07/08/2012 13:35Posted by Bawser
A game need to be difficult so the players will have something to look forward to. With LFR all players will be able to see the same content and they don't even have to work to get there. In TBC you did a great job because some of the raiding dungeons were too difficult and that's just good, because people will work harder too see that content.


MGT was difficult, but not fun for half of the players due to the mechanics that forced you to take classes with CC. There's fine line between challenge, work and becoming boring via nuisance and boring and forced mechanics.

And class stacking in SWP was far from being fun if you happened to play non leatherworker and happened to be a class that did not match with the ideals of stacking.

And in MoP there's still that melee hate in general in raids....

There is a lot of tweaking in balancing department to do.
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85 Gnome Warlock
8000
The reason people are getting burnt out so quickly in my opinion is because of the looking for raid feature, people are allowed to raid so much that they get bored allot easier.

For that reason I would suggest adding shared lockouts for normal herioc and looking for raid instances ór removing tier set bonusses from raiding. why? Else you still have to do the lfr raids for you tierset bonusses and I seriously don't want to be forced to raid to stay atleast a little competitive in my guild & get raiding spots.

But if I don't do LFR my guild will take the guy who does and that is the major flaw of the system.
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90 Human Paladin
7900
We’re delaying LFR by one week, we don’t think there is a real need to delay it further than that. It would be an unnecessary punishment to players not in organized guilds because chances are that the real hardcore guilds out there will be able to clear Mogu'shan Vaults on normal difficulty within the first week of its release, which by the time they will be eligible to run LFR, they will also be eligible to start progressing on Heroic mode.


They will still run it for gear. Nobody is going to get a full set of normal gear in that first week, much less the entire raid force. So, as LFR gear is likely to be better than anything on offer elsewhere, they will still go.

However, the new looting system will be a very welcome change.
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90 Troll Hunter
16875
07/08/2012 13:34Posted by Taepsilum
We’re delaying LFR by one week, we don’t think there is a real need to delay it further than that. It would be an unnecessary punishment to players not in organized guilds because chances are that the real hardcore guilds out there will be able to clear Mogu'shan Vaults on normal difficulty within the first week of its release, which by the time they will be eligible to run LFR, they will also be eligible to start progressing on Heroic mode.


A "Hardcore" guild will clear normal first week and win a maximum of 12 items (on 10) or 30 (on 25 man). When LFR is released the "Hardcore" guilds will push heroic modes and will have max 2 valor point epics and depending on luck 1-2 epic normal drops... which means that they will still need LFR...

This 1 week delay does nothing to remove the need for LFR for raiders. Only solution is to make LFR share a lockout with normal/heroic or delay it 2-3 weeks.
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85 Draenei Warrior
0
I don't get it, why can't the Hardcore raiders do LFR?
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90 Human Paladin
0
Having said that, I would like give a few updates about LFR and its future in MoP.
We know that currently some guilds will feel that they aren’t maximizing their potential if they don’t run LFR to get particular pieces of gear and tier set bonuses when they’re starting to progress through DS, but for MoP you can expect LFR to provide very little competitive advantage (if any) to those guilds and here’s why:
  • We’re delaying LFR by one week, we don’t think there is a real need to delay it further than that. It would be an unnecessary punishment to players not in organized guilds because chances are that the real hardcore guilds out there will be able to clear Mogu'shan Vaults on normal difficulty within the first week of its release, which by the time they will be eligible to run LFR, they will also be eligible to start progressing on Heroic mode.
    So within a couple of weeks, LFR should serve almost no purpose to any hardcore raiding guild.
  • We must not forget that there is also another reason why those guilds feel that they’re currently “forced” to run LFR, and that reason is, because they can increase their members' chances of winning items by playing the loot system, which they won’t be able to do anymore in Mists of Pandaria with the [url="http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3954511/"]changes we’ve introduced[/url] to the looting system.


So you honoustly think that raiding guilds don't feel obligated to run LFR in week 2 for set bonuses because you delay it with 1 week?

Does this mean all of our 25 man members get their 4 sets as a garantueed drop in normal the first week then? Of course they won't, therefor they 'need' to run content they don't really enjoy.

If the loot from LFR offers any viable upgrade all raiders will run it endlessly till they have it. Delaying the LFR with 1 week will solve nothing, in fact it will only hurt the players that actually enjoy running LFR because they can't at that time.

On the other hand I really do hope the new loot system changes the general behaviour of players in LFR for the better.
Edited by Dekliko on 07/08/2012 14:25 BST
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85 Gnome Warrior
13230

Having said that, I would like give a few updates about LFR and its future in MoP.
We know that currently some guilds will feel that they aren’t maximizing their potential if they don’t run LFR to get particular pieces of gear and tier set bonuses when they’re starting to progress through DS, but for MoP you can expect LFR to provide very little competitive advantage (if any) to those guilds and here’s why:
[ul][li] We’re delaying LFR by one week, we don’t think there is a real need to delay it further than that. It would be an unnecessary punishment to players not in organized guilds because chances are that the real hardcore guilds out there will be able to clear Mogu'shan Vaults on normal difficulty within the first week of its release, which by the time they will be eligible to run LFR, they will also be eligible to start progressing on Heroic mode.


They will simply clear LFR and then start heroic progression. LFR gear is needed until everyone is full of at least normal gear, which is not going to happen in one week, neither in two or three. Even after a month LFR will still drop some upgrades for a lot of raiders.
This is obvious, isn't it?
Edited by Niiro on 07/08/2012 14:27 BST
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
15355
07/08/2012 14:12Posted by Monkylord
Only solution is to make LFR share a lockout with normal/heroic or delay it 2-3 weeks.


No it isnn't. Only solution is to make LFR not atractive to raiders via lower iLevel loot than previous heroic tier and remove any possible set bonuses and not add overpowered proc trinkets into the game/LFR.

Allow raiders get gear improvements from actual raids or outside LFR and none the raiders will run the LFR.Also LFr and normal shared lockout would cause more problems than solve it.
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49 Goblin Hunter
10795
I think this is an extremely sensitive topic and I would like to approach it very carefully.
First I think we have to realize that WoW is not just any game, it unleashes very passionate feelings on its players. It’s been a part of everyone’s life for so long that it has acquired a status that sometimes can rival many things in real life, it’s an amazing game, it really is, and you know this, otherwise you wouldn’t be here wasting your precious time discussing about how to improve it.
But you do take that time to help us improve our games, and you deserve to be heard, more so, we really want and need to hear what you have to say, you are the reason we have a community department. One of the biggest advantages of having this level of interaction is that we can act as intermediaries between you and the developers, and this is where your feedback comes in.

We realize that LFR is a controversial feature and you can rest assured that we are paying full attention to the impact it has over our community. Some of us do share a lot of your concerns, but as always, we’re all different players, with different perspectives and objectives, so opinions on the matter will vary greatly.

What I really want to emphasize here is that we really do hear all of you.
As a company we obviously need to have a common vision, planning, strategy, and goal, but understand that individually, most of us play our games just as passionately as you do. We all experience what you experience and this includes developers, game designers and project managers, and most importantly, we all have our own different opinions. It’s from the gathering and discussion of these opinions and the ones from our players that together we can reach a common vision with the common goal of making our games the best that they can possibly be.
Still you must realize that game designers can’t take in all feedback and apply it directly to the game, that’s why they were selected as game designers, they are great at making decisions, and these can be really tough to make sometimes, which is why changes usually cause controversy.
When LFR came out I too had quite a few concerns about it, just like I’m sure many of you had, and obviously, still have to this day.
LFR is still considered a new feature, we’re constantly evaluating its receptivity and its role on filling the gap between casual players and raiding without having it ruin anyone else’s game experience, it’s currently being tweaked for MoP and I’m sure it will continue to be adjusted until devs are completely satisfied with it.

Having said that, I would like give a few updates about LFR and its future in MoP.
We know that currently some guilds will feel that they aren’t maximizing their potential if they don’t run LFR to get particular pieces of gear and tier set bonuses when they’re starting to progress through DS, but for MoP you can expect LFR to provide very little competitive advantage (if any) to those guilds and here’s why:
  • We’re delaying LFR by one week, we don’t think there is a real need to delay it further than that. It would be an unnecessary punishment to players not in organized guilds because chances are that the real hardcore guilds out there will be able to clear Mogu'shan Vaults on normal difficulty within the first week of its release, which by the time they will be eligible to run LFR, they will also be eligible to start progressing on Heroic mode.
    So within a couple of weeks, LFR should serve almost no purpose to any hardcore raiding guild.
  • We must not forget that there is also another reason why those guilds feel that they’re currently “forced” to run LFR, and that reason is, because they can increase their members' chances of winning items by playing the loot system, which they won’t be able to do anymore in Mists of Pandaria with the [url="http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3954511/"]changes we’ve introduced[/url] to the looting system.


Also here’s a brief plan about how raids will open on the LFR:
- Mogu'shan Vaults will be split into two tiers, and each tier will have three bosses. Both of those tiers will be available one week after the release of the normal raid, and you will have to clear the first tier before being able to queue for the second one.
- Heart of Fear will work in a similar way and will be split into two dungeons for LFR, each with three bosses.
- Terrace of Endless Spring will be one single dungeon queue.


Thank you Taepsilum for taking the time to post a very carefully thought out reply, it is very appreciated and it is good to hear that there is an internal debate within Blizzard in addition to the community debate out here.

As others have said, LFR is not just for players who don't have access to a raiding guild, it is also used as another avenue for normal and heroic raiders to acquire high ilevel gear that will assist them with raiding for their guild and additionally for completing tier set bonuses. ( I assume LFR gear will be epic, and higher ilevel then heroic dungeon gear, therefore making it an attractive upgrade or stepping stone and giving the guild a greater chance of success).

If you wish LFR to have zero impact on normal/heroic raiders, then you should give them a shared lockout.

It is exactly the same problem as when you had 10 man and 25 man all on different lockouts, and players felt too pressurised into having to raid multiple times in order to maximize their chance for item upgrades.

You effectively contribute to making players burn out, aswell as increasing the rate at which they can get geared up. Hope this feedback makes it to the game designers and they consider it carefully. Thanks.
Edited by Blackcoin on 07/08/2012 14:47 BST
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85 Human Priest
10605

Still you must realize that game designers can’t take in all feedback and apply it directly to the game, that’s why they were selected as game designers, they are great at making decisions, and these can be really tough to make sometimes, which is why changes usually cause controversy.


I have yet to seen them taking a great decision in recent times, all decisions they make is things that make the game more easy and that everything should be for everyone, regardless of how much time you put into the game.

I could stand LFR if I wasn't forced to do it but I am. And so is every semi to hardcore player out there, and dont say different because that's just really retarded to say.

LFR GIVES UPGRADES MEANING PLAYERS WILL HAVE TO DO IT, it is that simple.

Put it on same lockout as normal/HCS and the problem will go away. Delay LFR with 4 weeks from launch so players who can't clear normal the first weeks aren't forced into this version just to get upgrades.

You have to remember this isn't Firelands or Dragonsoul release, where every decent guild will clear the normal mode in the first week.

This is a new Expansion and if it's anything like the start of CATA ( which I hope it is) only the absolute top guilds will clear it the first week.

How can you not see this as a problem!?
Edited by Timestamp on 07/08/2012 16:55 BST
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1 Gnome Rogue
0
The blue post is in my opinion a step in the right direction. Keep it up!
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