LFR is good, but maybe just needs a new take?

90 Draenei Shaman
17085
I apologise in advance as I am sure this has been suggested before, after a quick search did not find a dedicated thread so posting now for some thoughts and opinions on something I feel strongly about.

The problem I see with LFR atm is that players, and by players for this I am taking most of my friends and those I play with, is that LFR is viewed as a step INTO normal raiding atm and was supposed to be intended to be for those who cannot raid regulary and experiance what those can.
Myself and friends/guildies mostly believe that the removal of tier gear from LFR would go a long way to stop this problem. Why does LFR have to drop the same gear in effect as norm and heroic? (with just a lower ilvl ofc).

Why not have LFR drop the same ilvl gear as the heroic 5 mans? This in turn will not 'force' people into the route that is currently in cata :

Ding 85 > buy pvp gear/run old heroics > Run HoT till LFR ilvl > Run/Farm LFR (then normal/heroic onwards etc if char raids)

If tier gear was removed and ilvl of LFR gear was matched to heroics then surly would be something like this?

Ding 85 > buy pvpgear/run old heroics > Run/farm HoT heroics = LFR > Then normal/heroic raiding

I still strongly believe that would not tunnel players on alts/mains etc to have to run LFR each week, it would allow players of all skills a variety of choice to raid or dungeon without punishment and in turn mix up the content.
The only problem as I can see is the gear in LFR, while a loot table would be too time consuming for developers to create new a table without tier gear would have to suffice, still not a problem imo.

With this system I can ofc see people not being happy with not being able to obtain tier gear outside of raiding, but as content continues players have many more chances to run normals, at least this way everybody can experiance the raiding content and not be forced into doing 1 thing, and having more choice.
Just to add btw, I like the idea of LFR, I think it was a great addition to wow but not quite in its current format.

Thoughts would be appreciated :)
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85 Blood Elf Priest
1870
I can understand your point but i have to say i prefer the drops. All that has really happened is that there as been an additional step into raiding.

Instead of going straight from hc's to raiding (with the risk of not getting in cause your a casual), you can not only get a little taste for a sense of raiding and progression but you also boost your chances of being able to get into the normal runs.

I had always been hesitant when asking to join ICC for instance cause my gear was from merely a few hcs and the tier (11?) Alot of people will complain that blizzard are holding the players hand into end game but I ( and probably one of the only ones) feel like its helped me when it comes to applying for normal raids. Actually completing them was a different story (Just for the people who would probably end up checking the profile)
Edited by Daishy on 31/07/2012 18:07 BST
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78 Blood Elf Death Knight
7500
My own opinion is the current gearing up progression path is badly in need of a restructure.

Giving the same gear level from lfr as HC's would definately be a step in the right direction, along with the lowering of stats on gear obtained from heroics introduced via patches, which at present is doing a great job of making older raids worthless wastes of time.
Edited by Dagar on 31/07/2012 18:36 BST
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90 Human Rogue
6495
Couldn't agree more. It is essential for players, that Raid finder isn't aimed to please, to run it for tier pieces. It kills the content.

Remove the tier pieces as loot, and make it lower item level. Make it share a lock with the other difficulty modes too. This would solve the problem, and solve a lot of the issues with the game at the moment.
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90 Worgen Druid
8960
But if LFR is to allow people to experience raiding, isn't better gear and tier drops an integral part of that? I do agree with your point though.
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90 Human Warrior
5990
LFR is like communism, a good idea but poorly implemented.
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90 Human Paladin
5215
LFR is just the 'next step' after heroics.

For some, the last station.
For others a bridge to normal raids.
For a few a step they will skip and go from heroics straight to normal raids.

Will it make Heroics obsolete? No, because everyone is required to do them (or spend loads of money on BoE gear/crafting).
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The problem I see with LFR atm

There is no problem with LFR. The problem is solely with people who either have issues taking responsibility for their own actions and feel Blizzard is forcing them to run LFR (to those: grow a pair) or who feel like special snowflakes and can't handle it when other people get to see similar content and get similar gear (although worse..).

Stop trying to 'fix' something that isn't broken.
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Community
While LFR difficulty requires less coordination and organisation than normal raids, it still generally takes more effort than completing a heroic. Therefore, shouldn't the rewards be greater?

Also, I think people generally like the normal dungeon>heroic>LFR>normal raid setup. Removing a step would give people less diversity.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
10665
02/08/2012 09:51Posted by Takralus
Also, I think people generally like the normal dungeon>heroic>LFR>normal raid setup. Removing a step would give people less diversity.


so, why dont it have a sharred lockout with rest of the levels, Norm and HC?

I remember you did use the . we dont want you to run to many instances.. when made 10 and 25 man raids sharre the same lockout. so, why is LFR not?
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90 Troll Hunter
16875
02/08/2012 09:51Posted by Takralus
Also, I think people generally like the normal dungeon>heroic>LFR>normal raid setup. Removing a step would give people less diversity.


No. It has been said many times that this forcing of Actual raiders to do LFR and "help casuals" is contributing to much quicker attrition and faster Burn out... Have blues ever looked at the 200 page "we consume too fast" thread?
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90 Gnome Mage
15100
02/08/2012 09:51Posted by Takralus
Also, I think people generally like the normal dungeon>heroic>LFR>normal raid setup. Removing a step would give people less diversity.


I don't like this setup. I'd prefer if 5 mans were on a separate progression path. I don't like the fact that you have to farm the 5 mans to begin raiding and that once you've begun raiding, 5 mans are no longer fun because you're overstuffed for them (so once you've unlock raiding, you only play one raid once a week)
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9320
While LFR difficulty requires less coordination and organisation than normal raids, it still generally takes more effort than completing a heroic. Therefore, shouldn't the rewards be greater?


Takes more effort? I dont think so you can play half afk, nothing can kill you and even if, you dont care because its enough to finish the bosses with 15 people wich means 10 people could die and it still isnt a problem.

I think its even less effort then a 5 man. Removing Set Pieces would be a good thing and sharing the raid lock out with normal mode and Heroic would be even better.
Edited by Gothdir on 02/08/2012 10:15 BST
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85 Troll Hunter
9105
02/08/2012 10:01Posted by Sihino
Also, I think people generally like the normal dungeon>heroic>LFR>normal raid setup. Removing a step would give people less diversity.


so, why dont it have a sharred lockout with rest of the levels, Norm and HC?

I remember you did use the . we dont want you to run to many instances.. when made 10 and 25 man raids sharre the same lockout. so, why is LFR not?


This. Put LFR on the same lockout and many of the "perceived" issues will disappear.
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Removing Set Pieces would be a good thing and sharing the raid lock out with normal mode and Heroic would be even better.

i agree

my suggestion:
all of above + making LFR loot ilvl equal to 5man Heroic

LFR was implemented for casual players to experience content, not as step to gear up between 5man HC and normal raid
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90 Undead Warlock
10905
02/08/2012 09:51Posted by Takralus
While LFR difficulty requires less coordination and organisation than normal raids, it still generally takes more effort than completing a heroic.


Blue sees gear now as a reward instead of a means for progression too?

A sad day indeed :(.

And be prepared to see the "While LFR difficulty requires less coordination and organisation than normal raids, it still generally takes more effort than completing a heroic." used a lot.
Edited by Darkangle on 02/08/2012 10:31 BST
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90 Pandaren Shaman
17955
Ding 85 >>> hit the AH or an alt for BoE crafted blues >> join LFR >> Afk on boss >>> repeat next week untill you have your gear you want.
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85 Undead Warlock
10640
Maybe I am overlooking s.th - but my guild was perfectly fine going normal 5mans-heroic5mans - normal raids.

Even a raider who comes late can go normal 5mans - AH gear/Pvp crafteables - HoT 5 mans and join our normal raids.

People in my guild do additional LFR on alts and to cap valors quicker (or in a different way)
Edited by Nerghul on 02/08/2012 10:36 BST
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
8000
While LFR difficulty requires less coordination and organisation than normal raids, it still generally takes more effort than completing a heroic. Therefore, shouldn't the rewards be greater?
Also, I think people generally like the normal dungeon>heroic>LFR>normal raid setup. Removing a step would give people less diversity.


Uh. LFR requires far LESS effort than heroics, even the nerfed dungeons in their current state. How exactly would you say it requires more effort? Even if you fail atrociously at your job (which is difficult in itself, given how low the bar is set), there are 24 other people there to pick up the slack.
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1 Human Mage
0
I think a main problem in LFR are the different kind of people who meet there:
a) Non-raiders, who have fun on this level and pull lets say 15k DPS, because the don't know all of the fight or class mechanics
b) Raiders, with low equipped twinks, who do LFR to equip their character with the least afford, standing there and doing 12k DPS because they are half-AFK.
c) Raiders, with low equipped twinks, who do LFR to equip their character, and doing more DPS than a) even though they are 20 item levels lower equipped
d) ...

b) and c) complain about a), because they make low damage.
a) and c) complain about b), because they make low damage.

Even on LFR there should be some difficulty, so that players have to step up a bit. And feedback to the players, how they do better. (like the elementium bolt thing on deathwing)

31/07/2012 16:58Posted by Kesandri
Myself and friends/guildies mostly believe that the removal of tier gear from LFR would go a long way to stop this problem. Why does LFR have to drop the same gear in effect as norm and heroic? (with just a lower ilvl ofc).

What do you think if LFR wouldn't drop set pieces, only "normal" ones. The item level would remain.
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