Topic
Balance druid DPS (need help perhaps)
|
Hello fellow druids. I've got a problem with my DPS as I'm only doing 16k dps on a raiding dummy (with 150 ms).
Currently I have 369 ilvl. With a couple of PvP items coupled (only like three) and I got some LFR gear as you can see on my armory. I've looked up the rotation of the balance druid and pretty much perfected it if I say so myself. My current rotation is: -Apply insect swarm then moonifre -Wrath for the earth and moon buff and to go lunar eclipse for starfall -Starsurge (and off cd and on proc) -Treants -Wrath till Lunar eclipse -Starfall -Starfire till solar eclipse and refresh DoTs when needed and still in Lunar eclipse for nature's grace -hit solar eclipse and spam wrath till lunar and refresh dots when again needed (when they have 2 seconds left. Same for lunar eclipse) I also use my CDs on CD (starfall and treants, though I try to delay starfall when I'm only 2-3 casts away from Lunar eclipse for the damage boost) So what am I doing wrong? My recount says I have 100% uptime on my DoTs and I only refresh them when they've only got like 1-2 seconds left. I even delay refreshing my DoTs when I'm only 1-2 casts away from Solar eclipse. Is the reason my dps isn't that great because of simply my ilvl? Or is my rotation not good? Any help would be appreciated :) |
|
Hello!
Yes gear will make a massive difference I wouldn't worry to much about maximising your DPS until you do gear. Gems and enchants obviously make a big difference although I assume you know that, I do appreciate enchanting low level gear can be costly etc. Just gear up and see what you do then :) |
|
|
Edited by Sqwerty on 06/08/12 16:57 (BST)
I just changed my Glyph of Starsurge with Glyph of Wrath and actually noticed a 1.4k DPS INCREASE.
I also noticed that my dps drops when I'm further away from the raid dummy. Is this normal? Edit: Is it better to use LFR Cunning of Cruel and LFR Will of Unbinding or is it better to use LFR Insignia of the Corrupted Minds and LFR Will of Unbinding? |
I believe single target LFR Insignia of the Corrupted Minds and LFR Will of Unbinding are better but on multiple target LFR Cunning of Cruel and LFR Will of Unbinding. Also generally watch out for LFR Cunning of Cruel as it does break Ccs |
|
Edited by Shedwyne on 06/08/12 20:12 (BST)
Also if there a way to avoid it dont reforge out of haste (wich you got on your legs) make those mastery to hit and get the intel spirit leg kit for those should get you close if not hitcapped.
And ye insignia is better but if you gonna pvp use cunning :) |
|
This is just coincidental. If you test for longer, you should notice less of a difference. I notice you did not mention your Wild Mushrooms in your rotation. These are very important! Plant your Mushrooms before a fight begins, and use them when you can. Make sure you're in Solar when you detonate them, and if there are any parts of the fight with multiple targets blow them up then for maximum damage! Also, if there are any parts of the fight which involve moving, re-plant them while you move (be sure to blow them up before the moving phase). It's not completely clear in your post when you refresh your DoTs. You should be refreshing them (with Insect Swarm then Moonfire, not the other way round, by the way) upon entering Solar, leaving Solar, and then when they run out next (which should be around 80-60 Lunar). This should get you into a neat, optimal rhythm, if your Haste is high enough. (Thankfully, you have the fast trinket) In addition to this, when there are adds around, try to get yourself into Solar before they come, and then DoT them all up. Keep your DoTs on as many targets as possible while in Solar. Your spec is fine, but improving your gear will hopefully give you an excellent damage boost. I won't nag you about your gear, as you can probably see what needs improving, and obviously it's not quite as simple as saying "get a better headpiece" as dungeon drops are not guaranteed. However, here's some advice about what gems, reforges and enchantments to get: Your helm should have the  Burning Shadowspirit Diamond in its meta gem socket. Put  Brilliant Inferno Ruby in every red and prismatic socket;  Reckless Ember Topaz in every yellow socket; and  Purified Demonseye in every blue socket. If you can't afford these, you can get the lower-quality versions of them (green-quality). I don't recommend getting the epic versions even if you can afford it, because of the price/DPS ratio.Your enchantments should be obvious, as they just follow the stat priority that I am about to come on to. Remember that Intellect is better than everything. Always, always, always(!) prioritise Intellect. Always. You then need to make sure you are hit capped at 17% (this means there is zero chance of your spells missing; not hitting the target is the most considerable DPS loss of all the stats). After that, prioritse Haste before Mastery, and Mastery before Crit. You can tweak all of your pieces of gear using Reforging in order to get as close to the hit cap as possible. Noxxic is a great resource for quickly checking what your stat priority is, what rotation you should be doing, what enchants you should be getting, et cetera. It's in easy-to-read language and is set out clearly. http://www.noxxic.com/wow/pve/druid/balance I hope all of this helps, and remember that practice makes perfect. Really, it does. :-) |
|
Firstly
No you have not, but you do have the right idea.
Its no coincidence you will see a drop in dps at long range simply because you will Eclipse a wrath later because of travel with practise you can compensate for it.
Generally speaking 100% is higher than it should be often its better to let them fall off when your about to eclipse etc. I just changed my Glyph of Starsurge with Glyph of Wrath and actually noticed a 1.4k DPS INCREASE. This should be the case on any single target fight, on a fight like warmaster starsurge is better than wrath.
In Regards to starfall it depends how much mastery you have I expect with your gear level you are doing the right thing by using it on cooldown, But when you have high mastery its better to wait for a lunar eclipse. The 4 set LFR will make a big difference to your single target damage Corrupted mind and Will of unbinding are the best trinkets for your in almost all fights. You can proberbly do over 16k dps but its not a bad amount of damage considering Pvp items. Practise on managing to Refresh dots with Natures grace still up and Eclipse You shouldn't have to cast uneclipsed dots except for the first set. Also try going Solar first as you will often reach eclipse alot quicker than heading lunar (especially when you have Insignia of corrupted mind) Keep Experimenting with when you refresh dots and when you let them drop and you should over time develop a way of producing strong single target |
|
|
Hehe, I have now realised that I misread the post - I thought Sqwerty said he/she noticed an increase of DPS when they were further away - which would have been coincidental. It is indeed the case that if you are very far away, the travel time of Wrath can mess up the start of your Lunar Eclipse. But it's not like "the closer you are, the more DPS you do"; it's just that there's a certain [long] range after which you get a DPS loss. Apologies for misreading. :) |
|
|
Firstly I'd like to know WHAT I'm doing wrong then? :P I notice you did not mention your Wild Mushrooms in your rotation. These are very important! Yeah that's because I was testing my DPS on a single target raid dummy (except when I starfall which hits 5 targets because my MS on stormwind sucks compared to Darnassus) Also to clarify my refreshing, which I was kinda sure of I explained clearly. I refresh them when they only have 1-2 seconds left before expiring. So I try to refresh them as soon as they only have 1 DoT left. I also always refresh them while I'm eclipsed (most of the times this happens when I only have like 20-40 Lunar/Solar energy left on my eclipse.). I also reforged my haste back. Which wasn't intentional in the first place. Think I just mis-reforged that. But thanks for that. It gave me like 0.8% haste ^^~ Oh and that 16K DPS test I actually forgot to buff myself with motw /facepalm. I also use my CDs on CD (starfall and treants, though I try to delay starfall when I'm only 2-3 casts away from Lunar eclipse for the damage boost) Reason I went into Lunar eclipse first is because I saw it on Icy-Veins I believe. So I immediately thought that would increase my DPS as I back then literally refreshed my DoTs immediately after hitting an eclipse :SS I will try to go into Solar Eclipse first next time. Let's see the results of that ^^ |
|
|
Edited by Treeroy on 07/08/12 09:46 (BST)
Even on single target fights, they are important. If you don't use them, it's a loss of potential DPS.
As I said, you should be refreshing your DoTs as soon as you reach Solar eclipse, then refreshing them again just as you leave Solar, and then once again when they run out (which will probably be about 80 lunar left for you). The reason why you should refresh them upon entering Solar is because you get the Nature's Grasp buff on your eclipse-buffed Moonfire and Insect Swarm. You then refresh them upon leaving so that the buffed MF/IS last for as long as possible.
For optimal DPS, try getting yourself to the start of Lunar Eclipse (100) before you pull the boss (you can do this during trash). |
|
[/quote]
As I said, you should be refreshing your DoTs as soon as you reach Solar eclipse, then refreshing them again just as you leave Solar, and then once again when they run out (which will probably be about 80 lunar left for you). The reason why you should refresh them upon entering Solar is because you get the Nature's Grasp buff on your eclipse-buffed Moonfire and Insect Swarm. You then refresh them upon leaving so that the buffed MF/IS last for as long as possible. [/quote] I believe it is better to delay reapplying your dots until they are about to wear off rather than straight away when entering solar. (http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t110353-balance_cataclysm_4_3_dragon_soul/#DoT_Refreshing) |
|
|
From what I've heard from numerous high-end theorycrafters, it's better to refresh them going into and out of Solar eclipse; having spent extensive time testing each version, this gives me more DPS. The maths also makes more sense for me, but it may be different to different people, depending on what stats you have. |
|
Your gear is 90% un-enchanted.
Not gemmed. 368 Itemlevel. Weapon and off-hand both !@#$. I don't mean to sound like a dick but you really need not to worry about anything at that Itemlevel. Once you get 395+ Itemlevel and you still do 16k on a dummy, then you should ask for help. As far as I can see, there is nothin wrong with your rotation. Your opener should be something like this: IS followed by Moonfire. Spam Starfire untill Lunar, cast Starfall, Reapply dots while in eclipse. Never apply dots when not in eclipse. NEVER. So after you applied your dots, spam starfire till lunar. Lunar apply dots cast wrath. Refresh dots at 13 Lunar energy to make sure you dont need to refresh it during non-eclipse. cast Starsurge while in eclipse aswell for the dps gains. You want to cast it off-cd always but if your 1/2 casts for eclipse then save it for the 5-15k xtra dmg. |
Can you link the theorycrafters that discuss applying them straight away so I can have a look at the maths / reasoning? The ones I have read suggest delaying is better (EJ, Grey Matter, Sunfyre (MMO champions post)) but as you say use whatever works for you. |
|
As to reapplying DoTs first thing in Solar Eclipse; you HAVE to wait a hardcast to make sure IS actually gets eclipse buffed. It doesn't if you queue it up as the first cast after your last Starfire. Same thing goes for any instants (Detonate Mushrooms, Starsurge Proc, "Sunfire", which will be Moonfire as a result). This means the first thing you do after entering Solar is cast a Wrath, then reapply dots.
Secondly, as to the whole amount of reapplies in a rotation, the deal is whether you can or cannot make it all the way to Lunar and back again only casting 2 sets of DoTs. In a "real fight" odds are you won't just be able to stand still and nuke, which lessens the likelyhood of you being able to do this. Less DoT uptime obviously means less DoT damage, but less Starsurge procs as well, so overall I guess we can agree it's a bad thing. To counter this people tend to cast 3 DoT sets in a rotation, using the most powerful eclipse (Solar, that buffs both IS and SF) twice. If you choose to do this is it important that you refresh as early and as late as possible in Solar. That is 1st set after the first Wrath, 2nd set (with Nature's Grace still up) just before you lose Solar. If you're hugging target, the last refresh is before your last Solar buffed Wrath, but if you stand at a proper range you can cast the Wrath bringing you out of Solar before casting Solar buffed DoTs, due to the travel time of Wrath. The 3rd DoT refresh is sometime mid-Lunar. The 2nd Solar set can be left out if you have Hero or another crazy haste buff, but keep in mind you'll need to Hardcast early Lunar eclipse before dotting as well then. |
|
|
So I've tried the rotation Treeroy and Donafinel gave me.
Turns out my DPS sky rockets at the start of my raiding dummy testing and is pretty stable after that, my dps sky rockets even higher up untill I've got 23k dps on my meter. I've also noticed that with the first rotation my DPS is a lot more steady. It rarely drops under 20400 but also rarely goes above 20500, while with my second rotation I range from 19.9k dps to 21.7k dps (though that's only at the start of the encounter) and continues to decline after that to a steady 20.3k dps sometimes even going below 20k. At first, when I was DPSing in Darnassus with several dummies standing around the raiding dummy, my dps was a lot lower with the first rotation than I did with the second rotation. So I kinda threw that rotation into the trash can. But now I'm DPSing in Stormwind/Ironforge hitting only one raiding dummy the first rotation seems to give me a steadier DPS rotation. Now I've got another question about my CDs and when to use them.. I noticed how little mistakes I could make with the first rotation, while in Solar Eclipse, because of the Nature's Grace buff and dot refreshing. Should I use my CD AFTER Solar Eclipse to keep a nice rotation, or use them in the middle of my Solar Eclipse? |
|
|
I assume you mean Starfall and Trees, as Starsurge would just be right in there with your rotation spamming anyway. They're both instant casts, so they shouldn't have much impact, but if it's these little things that stretch your Nature's Grace I see how it can be a problem.
Trees and Starfall should both be used on cooldown. The exception for trees would be if you know a Hero is coming up soon, then you'll want to cast them just before so they get the duration of the buff as a bonus. The Starfall exception is if you're pretty close to Lunar Eclipse, then it's worth waiting for. Say one of these two comes off cooldown just before you hit Solar. Both can be used as a "replacement" for the important Hardcast I mentioned earlier, as neither get any bonus from Solar eclipse anyway. So instead of having to cast a Wrath first thing in Solar, you can use Trees or Starfall instead and then just DoT up straight after and go at Solar :) Above is the best solution, but if they come off cooldown mid Solar, just use them. Take note of your time left on NG though, and just refresh 2nd Solar DoTs that bit earlier if you need to. |
