Old school raiding Vs New age raiding

85 Human Warrior
0
Although I myself was not around in the raiding days of Vanilla and TBC, I raid with many who were around and raiding in that period of the game. So whenever we kill a new boss now... sure we did good... but it's not as hard as Vanilla / TBC. And from what i've seen / heard it's 100% true. Groups still form full of 85's and wipe on idriali council and kael'thas Sunstrider. I've been raiding since ToC and so I've always been at end game gear on my main toon, but I've realised within the past 3 - 4 weeks as we are coming towards Mists of Pandaria... Gear is being shoved in my face at every opportunity to catch up. I raided throughout all of Cataclysm. 4.0 - 4.1 raids were mildly difficult. Firelands too was about the same skill level... Dragon soul was and still is a joke. Personally, I would like to see a route back towards Vanilla and TBC styled raiding, where it is actually difficult to kill bosses.

I found this in my YouTube Sub box from a few weeks ago and I must have overlooked it... but now that I have seen it... This is the World of Warcraft I want to play.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rd0-zVIBVo&feature=g-vrec
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
11200
it called evolution - blizzard evolved wow into this way - u may not agree with the process but its well ... unstopable - if anything dont evolve in any way it becomes extinct or relic of past.
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3 Human Mage
0
You need to remember that in those old days there was only one difficulty mode - Heroic.

When Blizzard introduced Normal and HC raiding, they didn't introduced a harder heroic mode.

Rather they renamed the regular mode "heroic" and created an easier mode called "normal".

Heroic modes have remained difficult throughout Wrath when I was raiding them and given the stats I see online the HC modes in Cata also kill a lot of people or at least they did until the end of expansion nerfs.
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85 Dwarf Death Knight
8130
I appreciate what you mean OP, but at the moment heroic modes are closer to old school raiding than normal modes. What i would like is to have some sort of "surprise" left in Heroic modes, to motivate more people to push into it. I wanted to do t11 and firelands heroics because there were cool things to see in them, but i never bothered with dragon soul because there is nothing significantly cooler to see or do in heroic over normal/LFR.
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90 Night Elf Druid
13045
05/08/2012 12:00Posted by Volrag
I appreciate what you mean OP, but at the moment heroic modes are closer to old school raiding than normal modes.


That made no sense.

05/08/2012 12:00Posted by Volrag
What i would like is to have some sort of "surprise" left in Heroic modes, to motivate more people to push into it.


As he said in the video you would be motivated to push on if you had a raid just waiting for you, that would be the same as having a suprise.
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85 Dwarf Death Knight
8130
Posted by Volrag
I appreciate what you mean OP, but at the moment heroic modes are closer to old school raiding than normal modes.

That made no sense.


In terms of difficulty i meant. Hell its the closest we have to a progression path that actually matters.

05/08/2012 12:08Posted by Emphi
As he said in the video you would be motivated to push on if you had a raid just waiting for you, that would be the same as having a suprise.


True, but i was trying to meet people half way on this point. As it stands blizzard wants everyone to see their raids because otherwise they cant justify the costs of development, letting aside the point why blizzard is so crap at understanding the state of their game slide for the moment, if they are married to this idea more needs to be done to incentivise normal and heroic raiding rather than just bringing the nerf bat down after 2 months. There needs to be new bosses, new phases or something unique to that difficulty that makes players want to see it over the LFR version.
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90 Night Elf Druid
13045

True, but i was trying to meet people half way on this point. As it stands blizzard wants everyone to see their raids because otherwise they cant justify the costs of development, letting aside the point why blizzard is so crap at understanding the state of their game slide for the moment, if they are married to this idea more needs to be done to incentivise normal and heroic raiding rather than just bringing the nerf bat down after 2 months. There needs to be new bosses, new phases or something unique to that difficulty that makes players want to see it over the LFR version.


Have you heard about the Heroic elite in the new raids?
I haven't read much about it but it's like an extra hardmode I think, correct me if im wrong.
You get better gear/BiS gear from killing the bosses without a debuff or whatever, haven't read much as I allready stated.
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85 Human Death Knight
4685
05/08/2012 12:00Posted by Volrag
I appreciate what you mean OP, but at the moment heroic modes are closer to old school raiding than normal modes. What i would like is to have some sort of "surprise" left in Heroic modes, to motivate more people to push into it. I wanted to do t11 and firelands heroics because there were cool things to see in them, but i never bothered with dragon soul because there is nothing significantly cooler to see or do in heroic over normal/LFR.


I have to agree with this as in current heroic being closer to the pre-wrath raids.

What I'd like to add though is the fact that blizzard as of now are creating artificial content due to these 'normal mode' raids, you essentially get the exact same content as heroic, but with the twist that it has one or two mechanics less.

Also, I'd love to do pre-DS content seeing as I've only played cata since 4.3 after a few years hiatus starting end-TBC, but the whole idea of getting Firelands-grade gear from doing the dungeons from 4.3 just makes me sick.

There is no progression in WoW at all anymore, if you want to do content that precedes current content you need to have luck in pugging that group or actually have a guild with the same mentality as to doing older content. Whereas in the olden days you had to work through every raid from the beginning to get to current content.

Also I dislike the fact that there's no satisfaction from killing bosses anymore. You go in, you kill a boss, maybe wipe a few times because people aren't paying attention, but you don't wipe because a boss is actually hard to kill. Then there's me just going into DS these days, doing my thing, and getting out. As it is right now the chance you'll wipe for weeks in a raid and then have the satisfaction of finally slaughtering the boss is not there, you know you'll kill the boss within a week or two.

I'll leave my post at this, seeing as I'm just starting to repeat what the video said to an extent in my own words and related to my own experience.
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90 Human Paladin
7900
05/08/2012 09:46Posted by Liliith
it called evolution - blizzard evolved wow into this way - u may not agree with the process but its well ... unstopable - if anything dont evolve in any way it becomes extinct or relic of past.


They didn't evolve anything. They changed it, quite artificially and without any long term reasoning behind it.
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37 Blood Elf Rogue
12300
OMFG whats with this thread again...

L2search and go read he forum usage guidelines.
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Have you heard about the Heroic elite in the new raids?
I haven't read much about it but it's like an extra hardmode I think, correct me if im wrong.


The "Heroic Elite" (and Elite) tags, at least as of today, are present on certain items that will be available to players that defeat the Protectors of the Endless encounter (1st boss in the Terrace of Endless Spring) killing Protector Kaolan last, as mentioned by Watcher here
Edited by Draztal on 06/08/2012 14:30 BST
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90 Orc Hunter
14230
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rd0-zVIBVo&feature=g-vrec


Not this video again......
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85 Goblin Rogue
7110
Welcome to the new World of Warcraft I'm afraid. Thanks to the good ol' Casuals, we can expect Dungeons to be a cake walk, carry no prestige in completion, gear pretty much given to us at Max Lvl and no real sense of accomplishment. Thanks Blizz!
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63 Undead Hunter
370
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rd0-zVIBVo&feature=g-vrec


Not this video again......


Hard to face the truth. I know
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90 Night Elf Druid
12235
hi i only raid lfr and progress slowly through normal modes (downed ultraxion yesterday, boss was so unholy) can you please make raiding more difficult
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90 Orc Hunter
14230
06/08/2012 14:51Posted by Sayuna
Hard to face the truth. I know


What truth? The guy talks about difficulty of TBC raids and trying to compare it with today's raids and he never even saw any of the bosses in Cataclysm on 25 man heroic while they were hard and current content , EVEN LFR before he joined Method.
The game is fine, the only thing I dislike is the raid nerfs but Blizzard got some nice ideas how to keep the challenge alive in MoP.
Edited by Rufflesx on 06/08/2012 15:00 BST
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85 Worgen Rogue
9685
I hear what you´re saying OP but at the same time I have to ask what´s your actual heroic experience? Because when I check armory of the toon you have posted from. It says that you have killed Morchok HC once and cleared ICC 10m hc once, thats it. Now maybe you have done heroic content on another toon, in that case ignore my post.

It kinda confuses me that you want raids to be more difficult but you yourself have chosen(I assume) not to do the harder encounters in the game, when they where/are current content.
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90 Goblin Mage
7045
I am not a hardcore player myself and I never did play in vanilla/TBC nor wrath for that sake. I joined and dinged 80 a couple of weeks before cata.

Yet when I see video's of Vanilla Ragnaros and compare them to T12 Ragnaros. I can easily see which one is more exciting. I can agree that DS is easy compared to what T11/12 was. And I'm only talking about normal modes here. Yes DS HC is still hard, but I feel that when you compare T11/12 to T13 those two were much harder on normal mode then DS.

Now even though I don't play HC I still feel that lorewise HC is the real mode to play. Due to Cho'Gall not falling on normal and Ragnaros not dying on Normal.

But still WoW has brought much more tacts and gameplay into the game when you compare the old raids to the new ones the new ones definetly look harder. The Hard time during vanilla would be to get 40 man together and shout tacts to all of them.

TL:DR

Vanilla Rag < Cata Rag
Vanilla nefarian < Cata Nefarian

The figths in cata are harder.
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37 Blood Elf Rogue
12300
06/08/2012 14:41Posted by Mikenzi
Welcome to the new World of Warcraft I'm afraid. Thanks to the good ol' Casuals, we can expect Dungeons to be a cake walk, carry no prestige in completion, gear pretty much given to us at Max Lvl and no real sense of accomplishment. Thanks Blizz!

Ironic that most of the people who post trash like this have not killed deathwing heroic huh?
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90 Human Mage
16305
Lucifron: Press Frostbolt or your /decursive macro

Admittedly thousands managed to get the choice wrong, but I wouldn't call that difficult.

Players evolve. Just because it was hard to walk when you were a baby...
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