Topic
[Constructive] Elemental shaman in upcoming expansion
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Edited by Crazée on 07/09/12 11:56 (BST)
This is my constructive feedback about the elemental shaman spec, talking from a PvP perspective.
I have already seen lots of threads but i would like to summarize all the issues and good things about the spec. Removal of crucial abilities Lava flows With the removal of lava flows, healers can dispell flame shock without thinking that shaman will do good burst for 6 seconds. Now you may say that every dispell now has a 8 second cooldown. Flame shock has a 5 seconds Shared cooldown with our other shocks + 1 global is 6 seconds to get another flame shock up wich means we will only have a 2 second flame shock on the target. Wich means no guaranteed crits from lava burst and no lava surge procs. In my opinion this is a big loss to keep consistent damage up and keep getting our lava surge procs. I would also like to refer on this matter to a post of me about the cooldown on shocks: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/5208544384 Elemental warding While some shamans would not take this in cataclysm, it was still a nice damage reduction vs casters. I don't know why this was removed since other classes like boomkins or shadowpriest kept theres as well. And ours got removed. now you may say that we get more damage reduction with mail armor but actually shadow priests and boomkins have more damage reduction then us with all there buffs up. Spark of life This was in my opinion a crucial talent in cataclysm to live, again other classes kept there passive abilities. New abilities Capacitor totem At first i thought it would be a very nice ability to have, to have a AOE stun every 45 seconds seems very nice to me. But the totem feels cluncky, you either need to be very lucky or you need to be facing complete retards to let the stun get off. There are some tricks to get it off, like with earthgrab totem and then stun but the totem only has 5 HP, so its easily killable.. The totem needs some reworks, for that i would like to link a thread i created about the totem: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/5207823878 Ascendance While you can get cc'd while using this ability i still think this will be nice burst cooldown in the upcoming expansion. Stormlash totem The cooldown is a bit to long but having a damage buff for your whole team is really nice. This will be very devasting in 5s i think. Talents 1st tier I am not going to talk about nature's guardian since almost no elemental shaman will use this in PvP. Stone bulwark totem: At first i thought that this would be a nice ability but the totem has some really big flaws. The shield doesn't stack on top of each other, so when the first absorb isn't used it just gets replaced by a weaker absorb. The shield is far to weak! While mages have double the absorb shield on a lower cooldown. The shield can be dispelled! This is a major issue! A defensive ability that can be dispelled?! The totem can be destroyed! when you hit the totem you won't get stunned unlike our stoneclaw totem in cataclysm. Its a earth totem! when you spec into earthgrab totem then it gets replaced if you need to root someone. The same with tremor totem. And on top of that it has a 1 minute cooldown, wich is way to long for such a mediocore absorb totem Astral shift To have a ability that reduces damage taken by 40% is something every elemental shaman was crying about in cataclysm. And now we got it, it has some serious flaws. The cooldown is way to long in proportion to the duration. 2 minute cooldown for a 6 seconds duration. And that only for 40% damage reduction. Barkskin is even better then this ability because of the lower crit chance while in barkskin. It can't be used while stunned. So when a mages shatters you in a deep freeze, it can't be used! 2nd Tier Frozen power Very nice ability if something is changed to shocks. Remove the shared cooldown on shocks or no cooldown on shocks at all. I would like to refer to my recent thread about the cooldown on shocks: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/5208544384 Earthgrab totem Nothing wrong with this ability. I has quite a long cooldown but its a AoE root. So this will be a very good choice against melee teams. Windwalk totem In the upcoming expansion you can see wich classes you will be facing in the arena. So my idea is to use windwalk totem against wizard cleaves like MLS. 3th tier Totemic projection. I think this ability is just not good enough to be a talent and should be baseline for every shaman spec. 6th tier Unleashed fury This looks like a very nice ability to have with lots of utility for either defense or offense. But this has a major flaw!! Imbue switching is just not viable right now since its on the global cooldown. By the time you got rockbiter weapon up and get the cast of your already in a stun or already dead! Get imbues of the global cooldown! Primal elementalist This talent is just not viable in competitive arena since the totem will just get destroyed and its a talent and a 5 minute cooldown waisted! Elemental blast While this ability has a long cooldown and a rather long cast this is as of right now the only talent that will be viable for elemental shamans in arena. Glyphs I really don't like the way our glyphs are mad. The idea of glyphs right now is that there are no mandotary ones but for elemental this is not the case. We really need glyph of ghost wolf to get more mobility and glyph of unleashed lightning. Conclusion As of right now i think with some tweaks to the elemental spec it will be a good spec to compete in rated pvp. The damage is not to high and not to low with elemental blast. Our cc and defense is still mediocore but this can be fixed by some small tweaks Well this kinda summarizes my issues for elemental shaman in the next expansion. I would also like to add some links from constructive threads. http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/5207533987 http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/5168467285 http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/5208432114 http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/5168356912 Remember to support them with your THUMBS UP and keep posting constructive feedback. Thanks for reading and give me your opinions. |
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It seems that lots of shamans in this forum just like to complain but when there is a constructive thread coming up then nobody takes the time to read or comment on it.
If you want something to be done about the state of shamans then comment! What a shame |
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Edited by Hubhub on 07/09/12 23:56 (BST)
It seems that lots of shamans in this forum just like to complain but when there is a constructive thread coming up then nobody takes the time to read or comment on it. Demanding a response from shamans is not the best way to go at it. I understand you took your time to make this post and that it consists of hours of attempts and research but being humble and patient is the best way to get a response. It's a friday and you created this thread 11 hours ago. Give it some time and if no one picks up on this, well then try it again or respond on the threads that keeps complaining. I read through it, but I dont play much competative pvp as elemental (I just mess around in BG's or cap conq as resto) so I have very little to add. So I wont discuss something I know next to nothing about. |
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Hee Crazeé, i think its really good feedback, and i agree with about 90% of your suggestions.
I am really dissapointed that elemental warding is gone, or the no-slow ghostwolf. At the moment as elemental it is really hard to get away from any melee for that matter, and the bulwark totem absorb i so laugheble, it killed my poor old nanny cause she rofled down the stairs seeing it. I have thumbed up your post, and even requested a sticky, just to try to get some attention from blizzard. The talents we lost like elemental warding and the flame shock dispel ''buff'' are in my opinion mandatory for a shaman. You cant re-flameshock every dispel, especcially when there are 7 stacks on your shield, or you need to slow/root with frostshock. I wish Blizz could organise some mass shaman ingame chat with a development team, cause clearly they are unsure of what to do with the shaman. |
It seems that lots of shamans in this forum just like to complain but when there is a constructive thread coming up then nobody takes the time to read or comment on it. I really would like to belive that constructive thread will change anything but unfortunately shaman forums are forgotten by the devs from a long time. Good write tho. Ele right now is just a garbage compared to other casters, if you look how many changes druids or priests recived it feels like blizz just doesent give a !@#$ about us. |
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On some things you cry a bit to mcuh but on others you got totaly right
Remove of Lava flow hut ele much in PvP and push us to only play with casters who have dispel protection ( Worlock SPrest and mage becous of hundrets debufs he maiks ) Capacitor Totem realy need to be chainged becous for now its only tool for Random BG to engry noobs And 1 more thing witch i didnt saw in your post . Shaman now is rely lack of damage , only moment when i feel that i do some damage is then my LvB proc mastery Echo of Elements and mastey pcroc proc echo too so i do 4 LvB on 1 cast i feel that i do something but well...... 1 Mag Pyro crit is stronger then this , 1 Lock Chaost bollt is much much stronger baisicly all other Casters have stronger hits then Shaman and Shaman need realy realy BIG luck to do soem damage becous of RNG mechanic |
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Don't agree with everything, but yes! This was a very good and accurate description of our problems! Although, I like to be a tad underpower :P As long as Spriest gets a good old nerf button spam by Blizzard :)
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some people take rest before the new exp hits (hint hint)
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Excuse me but why no elemental will use it? You allready said downside of Stone bulwark,and astral shift is on 2min cd with 6 second duration. I would prefer passive 25% HP every 30 sec than other two talents any day |
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Edited by Crazée on 12/09/12 22:04 (BST)
Excuse me but why no elemental will use it?You allready said downside of Stone bulwark,and astral shift is on 2min cd with 6 second duration.I would prefer passive 25% HP every 30 sec than other two talents any day Well concider this: Nature's guardian. Whenever a damaging attack brings you below 30% health, your maximum health is increased by 25% for 10 sec, and your threat level towards the attacker is reduced. This effect cannot occur more often than once every 30 sec. Wich means that when nature's guardian pops you gain 25% extra health. Well if you keep getting damage and when the effect expires you will be dead anyway without any healing, since not only your maximum HP will drop by 25% but also your current HP. Wich makes this talent completely useless in pvp. With the other talents you can still go on the offense while with nature's guardian you can not! Why not? Because when nature's guardian pops you need to heal yourself or cc someone to prevent damage and then heal. Wich means during that period of time you can get silenced, interupted, stunned. Its again unreliable and i don't like using it since i don't know if its going to proc because of the 30 sec cooldown on it and i don't have CONTROL over it, wich makes this very very annoying!! And then you might say, well your healer can heal you up in arena. But what if they just throw a blanket silence, a instant cyclone/hex/poly/fear. Then you will be dead anyway or your offensive pressure is completely gone! So thats why i wouldn't pick this talent in arena |
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Shaman is a dead class no point crying about it just re roll or quit game like me
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you sir are no shaman in heart and soul.
real shaman stick to it and go with what they got and make the best out of it. don't know if you check the F1 GP, but look at Alonso, a car who is as !@#$ as hell but still make's the best out of it. Just as a shaman, we use what we got and get the best out of it |
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With dispels being on an 8 second cooldown, then Lava Flows was always going to be taken away. The idea is that with the now increased length of flameshock, you stick it on multiple players / pets.
This is a group game and you can guarantee there are going to be alot of things to dispel on multiple targets. If a healer wants to dispel your flameshock but leave another of his team mates in a sheep, then I'd probably count that as a win. Trotting out the cooldown on flameshock and comparing it to the dispel cooldown is simplistic in the extreme. Spark of Life being removed is a real complaint? I don't know about anyone else, but I'd rather have the much better heals we have now as opposed to the fairly rubbish ones we had back in 4.3 with Spark of Life. Not to say there aren't things that could be improved upon for Shaman, but some of the things being complained about are rather daft. |
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Its hard to take this kind of statement for serious anymore because i can see it on any class forum except for mage forums.Only spec i would never PvP is enhancement because its just not PvP spec.Maybe in MoP,who knows.... Back to the topic: Wich means that when nature's guardian pops you gain 25% extra health. Are you sure thats how it works? I mean ofc you lose bonus HP after 10sec duration but if enemy allready took those 25% that you lose nothing. For example,you were on 30% and activate natures guardian.You will be on 55% but if in 10 seconds enemy damage you for that bonus 25% you wont lose anything. From you theory after those 10 seconds if your HP is lower than 25% and enemy damaged you for all bonus HP you automaticly die?!?! Cant be that bad.... |
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Edited by Sarafim on 13/09/12 10:54 (BST)
Or maybe we dont need to cast flameshock anymore. Just take frozen power(tier 2 talent) and spam lightening bolt with unleashed fury(tier 6 talent) Especially when i look at new glyph of telluric currents,is taht imba or what?? RESTORE 10% OF MANA,lol so now ligh. bolt restore mana since its cost is 7 % base mana |
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Edited by Crazée on 13/09/12 17:06 (BST)
Are you sure thats how it works? I mean ofc you lose bonus HP after 10sec duration but if enemy allready took those 25% that you lose nothing.For example,you were on 30% and activate natures guardian.You will be on 55% but if in 10 seconds enemy damage you for that bonus 25% you wont lose anything.From you theory after those 10 seconds if your HP is lower than 25% and enemy damaged you for all bonus HP you automaticly die?!?!Cant be that bad.... That is the case with this talent So it is completely useless in pvp!? |
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Edited by Greyscale on 16/09/12 21:29 (BST)
Well allthough it looks Astral shift has short duration and long CD,and both are thrue lets try to compare it to Bulwark:
You are in arena 3v3 and 3 or 2 people are bursting you and you activate astral shift,how much damage will you prevent from bursts in those 6 second,especially if you have healer? Lets say on lvl 85 their burst is 200 000,you will prevent 80 000k because Astral prevents 40% I dont know accurate numbers on Bulwark or bursts because i dont have high lvl character but i think, looking like that, Astral shift is better+ you can use other earth totems and not sacrafice them for Bulwark |
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[quote] It looks to me that you have no real idea how crazy good this talent is for shamans. It's basically an advanced battlemaster trinket on a 30s cooldown. It will save your butt from many execute like abilities. Say you have 100 max health. You take damage and you are down to 19 health. At this point execute, shadow word: death, ... could finish you. Instead you'll have 44 health (125 max health). It's up to your healer to try and top you off to 125 before the effect expires. From 19 to 100 or from 44 to 125 means that your healer will have to heal for exactly the same amount in both situations to top you off. Thus it's irrelevant that you lose the 25% health. This talent just saved your life and protected you against execute abilites, and it buys your healer time to top you off. And this each 30 seconds. |
