Monks feel weak on low levels

90 Blood Elf Monk
6235
really..

Jab deals ~20% (or even less)of autoattack damage... really? Haven't seen any ability with lower damage so far, especially when you HAVE to use it as your ONLY (up to 46) Chi generator (I don't count Expel Harm because that is actually self heal and is not used in rotation)

Fists of Fury - damage is DIVIDED. WTF you wanted to do with that? we deal 30 dmg per mob.. So again the ability has the ONLY use - AoE stun for 4 sec.

Generally all abilities deal crappy low damage compared to other classes (aka any hunter in greens beats heirloom geared monk)

lvl 1 to 25 feels good. From then, you practically gain ABSOLUTELY NO DPS INCREASE up till level 46, when you finally got proper AoE (which still feels weak though, unless you have 6+ targets)
so at level ~25 I've reached my maximum dps (about 380 - which was way higher than any other monk I've met in LFG), but since then, I always dealt just that 380-430 dps... now with Spinning Crane it's about 540, which is still not so great, but anyway..

This affects exping too - average heirloomed class can kill questing mobs by 2-4 hits. Monks require lengthly pounding till he can take down something. (aka killing mobs with 4400+ HP when your "best" attack - Blackout Kick, deals about 460 damage..which is just slightly more than autoattack)

So far I have a strong feeling that monk was designed solely for PvP, thanks to a LOT of utility abilities (paralyze, expel harm, disable, sparring, touch of karma, adaptation, etc) without looking into PvE extensively..

my dps priorities:
Jab for Chi generation (Spinning Crane if 3+ enemies)
opening with Flying Serpent Kick
1. Tiger Palm 3 stacks kept up
2. Blackout Kick whenever I have Chi to spare
3. Fists of Fury when tank has more mobs on him than healer can handle that moment
ofc that's going to change when I finally get Spinning Fire Blossom and mainly Rising Sun Kick

problem is with the damage...
Jab ~90 damage, Tiger Palm ~250, Blackout Kick ~460, Spinning Crane ~210/target, Flying Serpent ~350/target(long CD though - and hard to land without glyph from close quarters)
compared to other classes who have no problems dealing 1000+ damage with abilities at this point, it feels helluva weak
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100 Draenei Monk
17325
Well, a lot of the damage is centered in rising sun kick and its debuff, which means that WW will do lower damage than classes that get their bread and butter dps abilities earlier. I kind of feel like that it should perhaps have been the spec ability rather than fists of fury, but well - it's not a huge issue.
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90 Pandaren Monk
10100
Once you get Rising Sun Kick, you'll be taking things down in a couple of seconds, so just bear with it or respec until you get it. I agree with Seruuna, though. You should really have gotten it as a spec ability.
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90 Pandaren Monk
9220
My Monk is only 27 atm, but i feel anything but weak - but on the other hand, im leveling Brewmaster rather then Wind Walker (she will replace my DK as my tank anyway) and tbh I have no problems taking down mobs, Keg Smash + Breath of Fire is a good combo as well ofc with blackout kick, slightly off topic, but if u want to be stronger (even if ur leveling via quests and stuff rather then dungeons, just go Brewmaster)

Hope This helps
Edited by Tenohira on 27/09/2012 06:51 BST
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- World of Warcraft
14 Pandaren Monk
3700
Mistweavers have it worse in terms of levelling though, as it's even slower than a player who at least has Fists of Fury. Though I guess what we lack in damage we sure make up for in healing (100+ damage per second is pretty damn good.
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90 Human Monk
7450
I felt the exact same, felt like i was doing no damage, don't worry once you got you Rising sun kick, your damage will bloom massive increase. aswell as it preads to all nearby mobs (the debuff) Make sure to use your Elixirs for regenerating energy when needed to keep a sustained dps and minimal downtime.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
6235
it would feel better if they simplified it a little.
perhaps nerfing a buff from Rising Sun Kick while increasing damage of Jab, so it won't feel so damn weak.
And I agree Rising Sun Kick should be a spec ability instead of fists of fury, which are kinda useless for anything but stun - or at least allow other abilities being used during it's channel
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90 Pandaren Monk
8660
Yeah my dmg felt a lil weak when lvling, but that kick really does help
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90 Pandaren Monk
8605
Jab does feel very very weak, Black out kick could need a couple of % bumps on it's base damage.

Now fists of fury this is a mind boggler, it divides damage equally on every target.... what is the point with that? not to make it "too powerful a AoE damage" ?

I am a firm believer that Jab and Black Out seriously need a few bumps up on the damage chart.
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90 Draenei Death Knight
12880
27/09/2012 14:54Posted by Wobfu
I am a firm believer that Jab and Black Out seriously need a few bumps up on the damage chart.


I agree aswell.

I may be leveling my Monk as Brewmaster (So raw damage shouldn't be a concern for me) but as it is at the moment, Jab and Blackout Kick are awful for dealing damage...

Jab is so weak (Especially for Brewmaster, it only gives 1 chi and doesn't have 20% additional damage when in Ox Stance) but yet it's one of the only chi generating moves available (And the only spammable one for Brewmaster and Windwalker outside the Spinning Crane Kick)

Combine this lackluster chi generator with a multitude of 2 chi using abilities (For at least Brewmaster, I've got Breath of Fire, my choice of Tier 2 talent, Guard and Blackout Kick) creates a situation where you've got low DPS purely because of an expensive and low damage Chi generator and a multitude of 2 chi using abilities with Blackout Kick doing lackluster damage (My initial hit from Breath of Fire does nearly the same damage as Blackout Kick)

Make Blackout Kick something interesting to use without it being necessary (Brewmaster gets 20% Parry and Stagger for 6 seconds after using it, which means it's something that wants to be used a lot)

I just want to re-iterate - Jab is so incredibly weak... With full heirlooms it takes 3-5 Jabs to finish the last 2% of a dungeon mob's health... (Possibly due to the fact that it appears Jab works entirely off of Attack Power and doesn't use Weapon damage at all)
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90 Pandaren Monk
0
Hi, something happened at lvl 68 ish for me...not quite sure but the damage output was clearly different. Rising sun helps, for some reason my avatar shows me as 47, I am now 74 and often top of the meters in the dungeons.

Roll on 90, I think we will be a force to be reckoned with
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90 Pandaren Monk
8605
I just want to re-iterate - Jab is so incredibly weak... With full heirlooms it takes 3-5 Jabs to finish the last 2% of a dungeon mob's health... (Possibly due to the fact that it appears Jab works entirely off of Attack Power and doesn't use Weapon damage at all)


Jab does indeed only work straight off attack power and no weapon damage modifier at all, which i find very strange oO
Edited by Wobfu on 27/09/2012 16:50 BST
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90 Draenei Death Knight
12880
27/09/2012 16:45Posted by Wobfu
Jab does indeed only work straight off attack power and no weapon damage modifier at all, which i find very strange oO


I guess it's easier to balance 2 Handers versus 1 Handers if it doesn't use weapon damage, that and it'll scale like a beast.

Unfortunately no weapon damage modifier makes skills underwhelming at low levels (I assume Mistweaver Monks can do some decent damage since the Heirloom caster staff provides a decent chunk of Spell power they can convert into attack power)
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90 Pandaren Monk
8605
Jab does indeed only work straight off attack power and no weapon damage modifier at all, which i find very strange oO


I guess it's easier to balance 2 Handers versus 1 Handers if it doesn't use weapon damage, that and it'll scale like a beast.

Unfortunately no weapon damage modifier makes skills underwhelming at low levels (I assume Mistweaver Monks can do some decent damage since the Heirloom caster staff provides a decent chunk of Spell power they can convert into attack power)


Possibly, but it wouldn't be too hard for blizzard to make Jab two sided with the weapon damage, one modifier for 2 Handers, and one modifier while DWing, but perhaps that would take too much time to code?, i dunno it just seems that Monk is kinda rapidly done, good on paper... kinda lacking in the execution, i'm still going to stick with it tho.
Edited by Wobfu on 27/09/2012 17:39 BST
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90 Draenei Death Knight
12880
27/09/2012 17:34Posted by Wobfu
i'm still going to stick with it tho.


So am I, it does seem that Blizz made Monks with level 90 in mind and then in the last 5 minutes threw together their low level stuff.

Evidenced by the fact that their abilities scale incredibly well, but have really, really bad base damage and also one look at their spell book shows you get a majority of your core abilities (And abilities in general) towards the higher levels.

But I guess it'll help weed out the FotM re-rollers from the people who actually like the class, the FotM crowd will probably get bored and stop leveling at the mid level range (Or they will cry for massive and uneccessary buffs and get them >.> )
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90 Pandaren Monk
8605
27/09/2012 17:44Posted by Taril
i'm still going to stick with it tho.


So am I, it does seem that Blizz made Monks with level 90 in mind and then in the last 5 minutes threw together their low level stuff.

Evidenced by the fact that their abilities scale incredibly well, but have really, really bad base damage and also one look at their spell book shows you get a majority of your core abilities (And abilities in general) towards the higher levels.

But I guess it'll help weed out the FotM re-rollers from the people who actually like the class, the FotM crowd will probably get bored and stop leveling at the mid level range (Or they will cry for massive and uneccessary buffs and get them >.> )


I can't wait to get to play around with Flash Kick (Rising sun kick, im a massive guile fag :3) yes one glance at spellbook tells that monk is made for end game, and the low level stuff is just.. there without much thought kinda last minute, but as you said, will probably clean out lots of the "FoTM" rollers.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
6235
originally I though monk will be really easy to play (since all content from BC to this day means lesser and lesser difficulty), but monk gameplay is really complicated...

holding up
Tiger Palm 3 stacks for 30% ArP
Rising Sun Kick for +10% damage taken
Tigereye Brew 10 stacks for +20% damage
without these 3 you lose almost half of your dps.. not to mention Tigereye seems to have less than 100% uptime (unless you have craploads of haste to boost energy regen to get more Chi)
not to mention you also have to use Jab all the time for Chi generation AND Blackout Kick as filler.

Tiger Palm seems rather lackluster to me - it has low damage, so you probably use it ONLY to apply ArP buff. I guess all monks would be happier if it was replaced with Jab doing MORE damage and applying buff, rather than wasting another slot in action bars.

so suggestions so far:
1. switch places of Fists of Fury and Rising Sun Kick - making kick a spec ability learned on low level instead of fists
2. move damage & buff from Tiger Palm to Jab - since Jab is doing laughable damage and tiger palm is used ONLY for applying buff and could be considered a dps loss (unless used in last second of buff to refresh)

Also, is it just me, or Windwalker monks have almost no usable Major Glyphs? So far I have none, and I can't see any there that would be good for the spec..
those "OK" ones:
Afterlife - sounds good for soloing, but you don't really need it since you have tier2 talent and Expel Harm, not to mention you get more than enough healing spheres even without glyph
Path of Blossoms - that spell does so low damage that 1 more "mine" won't help that much.
Sparring - probably the only good glyph Windwalker have
Touch of Karma - monks are melees.. so why making it's range longer? it may be only of some use in PvP
Spinning Crane Kick - sounds good, but again - only for PvP maybe, since in PvE you won't need to move that fast anyway
Fists of Fury - 100% parry while you are also stunning enemy? the only possible use would be if you overaggroed and needed to save yourself (since bosses are immune to stun) till your tank taunts back
Touch of Death - one of those "better" glyphs to save you a lot of Chi.. but you won't use ToD that often to make a difference with it.

Also, minor glyph of Flying Serpent Kick is BUGGED - it just makes you unable to stop the kick , while mostly ignoring targets (or smashing the ground without any enemy).
Most of the time it won't stop you at all, or will stop you so far behind enemy that AoE won't hit him. You're better off without this glyph until it gets fixed
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90 Blood Elf Monk
6235
What I ment by that long post above is that monks feel so weak while leveling because they are losing half of their damage, just because you can't keep Tiger Palm and Tigereye Brew buffs on you all the time - it's similar to retri paladin issue - without using all DPS cooldowns, we simply suck.
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90 Draenei Death Knight
12880
28/09/2012 09:36Posted by Phaonis
Also, is it just me, or Windwalker monks have almost no usable Major Glyphs? So far I have none, and I can't see any there that would be good for the spec..


I think the glyphs for all Monks are pretty lackluster, I can't find a single one I want for either my Brewmaster nor my Mistweaver specs (Aside from the Roll while dead minor glyph)
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54 Human Monk
6965
28/09/2012 10:45Posted by Taril
Also, is it just me, or Windwalker monks have almost no usable Major Glyphs? So far I have none, and I can't see any there that would be good for the spec..


I think the glyphs for all Monks are pretty lackluster, I can't find a single one I want for either my Brewmaster nor my Mistweaver specs (Aside from the Roll while dead minor glyph)


Only good I found was Windwalker's Touch of Karma (Touch of Karma's range is now 20yd)
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