LFR "difficulty" - are you serious!??

90 Blood Elf Death Knight
10250
11/10/2012 11:59Posted by Warl
So brave, with your level 1 alt. If you're "sick" of the whining, perhaps you should stop reading these threads? Just a thought...


Oh god, lol. Does it change my opinion, that I'm posting from a level 1 character?

I posted my opinion on this topic, I'm not forcing you to agree with me.


It changes the credibility of your opinion. Im my opinion.

I was posting my opinion.
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1 Human Hunter
0
11/10/2012 11:55Posted by Lycàon
Really? Name 5 european morning raiding guilds please.


I think, you misunderstood me. I'm simply saying, that people who complain about not being able to raid, cause normal modes are too hard, and ask for RF to raid, simply CBA to raid.

Let's say, someone saw an interesting book, but thought it was too long, and he couldn't be arsed, because he stated, he was too busy with other things, and he had "a life". He then asked the writer to give a short resumé of the book, so he could get the story of the book without reading it, and putting any effort into it. The writer decided to do so, and placed it on one of the first sides, which everyone were entitled to read, before going to read the book.

That's kind of, what RF does to raiding, in my opinion.

I can't see, how people can be complaining about the lenght of a game. It's the same case with people asking for instant 90-buttons. Why buy a game, you don't wanna play? Why raid, if you can't be arsed to raid?
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1 Human Hunter
0
It changes the credibility of your opinion. Im my opinion.

I was posting my opinion.


Which was not relevant to the topic, as you were only posting regarding my armory-profile trying to turn down my opinion.

This topic is about LFR. Not my level 1 human hunter.
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72 Night Elf Druid
6140
as much as I hate that I am forced into LFR as a raider it is patheticly easy and I really don't see how anyone can get any enjoyment out of it. We didn't move for anything when we did it, we soaked every single mechanic and we wern't even close to wiping. But the people in LFR are atrocious, we had several people doing 12k dps when I was easily cruising along at 107k. that's 9 times as much dmg, so it clearly needs to be that easy to get those people throu it. But it's a shame, the game should force you to learn how to do basic stuff instead of rewarding you for being terrible
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
10250
It changes the credibility of your opinion. Im my opinion.

I was posting my opinion.


Which was not relevant to the topic, as you were only posting regarding my armory-profile trying to turn down my opinion.

This topic is about LFR. Not my level 1 human hunter.


Try reading what I said, in full, rather than just picking the words that suit your agenda.
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1 Human Hunter
0
11/10/2012 12:23Posted by Morbiax
Try reading what I said, in full, rather than just picking the words that suit your agenda.


I did.

You told me to stop reading such threads, if I'm tired of listening to people whining. In fact, it's everywhere. Trade chate, guild chat, even my friends are whining now aswell. I'm just saying, that IMO, LFR brought only negative sides to the game.

Now could you focus on the topic, instead of fighting me?
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90 Troll Druid
11850
There is content for all players ranging from hardcore to casual, but instead of focusing on the content appropriate to their level of dedication some people complain about some things being easy. LFR/Heroics too easy .. step up and go do Dungeon Challenges, Normal/Heroic raids.

Atm LFR is needed even for raiders, but I personally prefer some easy content to do with randoms and be done in 20 mins instead of a wipe fest. Wipe fests are for guild raids. :)

Just a sec .. Its time to show the world how good I am .. I should make another post about LFR and Heroics being too easy.
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90 Dwarf Warlock
11215
LFR too easy? Go raid the normal version. Don't want to find a guild? Well, enjoy LFR.

Don't whine about LFR being too easy when the normal and HC versions are live.

Dem logics.
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Community
This subject has been discussed extensively on other threads, setting the perfect difficulty level for LFR is a very tricky thing to accomplish.

When you enter a LFR raid you never know what will be the average skill level of those 25 players, good communication is usually very hard to accomplish, there’s always players not listening, there might be more than 1 person trying to lead, different tactics might become conflicting, etc…

There are just too many things we have to take into account; you just can’t expect LFR to have a linear decrease in difficulty from Normal mode.

For example, if you get 25 experienced (in normal mode) skilled players that don’t know each other joined together by LFR, they won’t have the same raiding experience as if they were raiding with their own guild groups, even though they are able to complete raids in normal mode with their own guilds, they might end up taking a very long time to adjust to each other and face several wipes if LFR had the same difficulty as normal mode.

What I’m saying is, if we raise the difficulty too much, due to the nature of the random grouping system, most raids will end up with excessive wipes, players frequently leaving, constant queuing to find replacements, and just an overall bad and tedious experience. Sure, every once in a blue moon, the right group of players would be put together and would have a great raid, but if that happens only 1 out of 10 times that’s not something we aim for with LFR, it wasn’t designed to appeal to those players, for that you have normal and heroic mode.

The raid encounters need to take into account not only the skill level of the average raid but also the fact that these raids are usually made up of players that don’t know each other and the inevitable lack of communication and coordination that it implies.
Certain Boss abilities on normal mode are built around the assumption that there’s enough coordination in those raid groups to overcome certain obstacles. This same assumption can’t be applied to LFR, that’s why sometimes we have to simply remove certain Boss abilities instead of just tuning them down, some abilities can only be either on or off, without anything that you can actually scale up or down.

I realize that these first LFR encounters might feel a bit too easy to some of you, but I think that the explanation for that also lies within that very same sentence; they’re the “first bosses” of the “first part” of LFR.
Let’s wait and see how the difficulty of LFR encounters progresses in the near future, if the overall feeling of the community is that the difficulty needs to be raised, we’ll make sure to pass that info along to the developers and if they happen to feel the same way about it, I’m sure they’ll be happy to adjust it.
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100 Draenei Shaman
17295
11/10/2012 12:09Posted by Warl
I think, you misunderstood me. I'm simply saying, that people who complain about not being able to raid, cause normal modes are too hard, and ask for RF to raid, simply CBA to raid.


Perhaps the ones complaining normal modes are too hard, find them too hard because they cannot find the time to dedicate to the game to actually be able to raid. Perhaps they're unable to get into a raiding guild, or maybe they work unsociable hours, meaning they can't raid when they do have time. Maybe they don't have the gear people are asking for to join in raids. There is a difference between not being arsed to raid, and not being able to. I could raid if I wanted, but don't, because my RL commitments would interfere with my guild's raiding schedule. I'm happy enough to sit and do LFR so at least I'm experiencing the content, even though it may be easy.

11/10/2012 12:09Posted by Warl
Let's say, someone saw an interesting book, but thought it was too long, and he couldn't be arsed, because he stated, he was too busy with other things, and he had "a life". He then asked the writer to give a short resumé of the book, so he could get the story of the book without reading it, and putting any effort into it. The writer decided to do so, and placed it on one of the first sides, which everyone were entitled to read, before going to read the book.


They do this, it's called a blurb. It's that bit of writing on the back of a book that tells you a little of what it's about. It misses out a few major details (like LFR misses out a necessity for tactics), but you get the basics of the book. You then have the choice to dedicate your time to reading the book even though you might have other commitments, or just reading the blurb and thinking that's enough for you.
If you do get into the situation where you're raiding a normal version, I imagine anyone who's done the LFR will find out they need to pay a bit more attention that they did in LFR, and will find out it's a bit different.
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100 Night Elf Rogue
9165
Then why bother if it is not providing the experience?

People should enjoy the content most suited to there time frame, there used to a great amount of interesting 5 man content in this game which is now only a stepping stone to this. I used to prefer the 5 man end game to raids but it's dead now and there is LFR.

Yes i can be casual and sometimes have limited time to play but i can make friends be part of a community and do real raids if i feel likeit, people who say raiding takes to much time time are in the wrong game. if you can not provide 6hours a week relatively consistanly, i think you bought the wrong genre of game simples and you should buy your self a good RPG like Dragonage.
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MVP - WoW, StarCraft II
90 Worgen Druid
9180
11/10/2012 12:43Posted by Taepsilum
What I’m saying is, if we raise the difficulty too much, due to the nature of the random grouping system, most raids will end up with excessive wipes, players frequently leaving, constant queuing to find replacements, and just an overall bad and tedious experience.


I think this reason is well-justified. The mistake made in Cataclysm's launch (not latest patch of course) with the 5-man heroics is that because their difficulty was on par with Burning Crusade's, doing them was an extremely unpleasant experience in random groups. It was a lot more pleasant doing them with guildies, who were not always available.

I think the same can be said about the LFR. If the LFR was made too difficult, it would be the same old experience multiplied by 5. Its a terrible thought really.

Those who are looking for a challenge would be well suited in Normal and eventually Heroic mode raids with guilds and the occasional well-formed pug group.
Edited by Danellos on 11/10/2012 13:07 BST
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100 Human Paladin
16225
Mr. Taepsilum

Could you maybe answer the question on why LFR doesn't share a lockout with the Normal raids?

If they were on a shared lockout, I bet a lot of people would stop complaining about the difficulty, because they wouldn't do that content (due to being locked from normal)
Myself included.

The reason people might be upset now, is that they are forced to enter a dumped down version of an otherwise awesome raid, just so they can stay competitive in this game.

It is simply required to run LFR in order to get gear improvements for normal raiding if you want to be a step ahead, but it is not needed for taking down the bosses.

So why is it no shared?
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90 Human Rogue
10375
6 hours a week? Seriously? HA! Back in WotLK my guild raided 6 hours every -night-!

LFR should be easy, imo, because you're lumped together with 24 selfish jerks who are only there for one thing: To gear themselves up. They don't care about you, they don't care about your progression, they don't care what kind of day you've had, whether you've been doing this stupid raid for the last 3 hours trying to complete it or what have you. They only care about a) How fast they can get the raid done and b) What kind of loot they can get from it. Easier it is, the faster you can get your loot and get out and be done with having to group with them.
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100 Night Elf Rogue
9165
6 hours a week? Seriously? HA! Back in WotLK my guild raided 6 hours every -night-!

LFR should be easy, imo, because you're lumped together with 24 selfish jerks who are only there for one thing: To gear themselves up. They don't care about you, they don't care about your progression, they don't care what kind of day you've had, whether you've been doing this stupid raid for the last 3 hours trying to complete it or what have you. They only care about a) How fast they can get the raid done and b) What kind of loot they can get from it. Easier it is, the faster you can get your loot and get out and be done with having to group with them.


Indeed, but you don't need to, i used raid back in Vannilla, and that was long nights raiding, not due to difficultty but due to trying to organise 40 people a complete mission in itself lol

but these days 6 horus a week will let you get to the end of the raid content easily before the next is reached and do a fair amount Heroic content.
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100 Human Paladin
12400
May i ask why they are constantly making content that requires comunication? You can esely make hard content that do not require comunication?
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100 Troll Hunter
16930
The new LFR is 100% required for anyone who wants to raid, same as 2 hour daily grinds.


I realize that these first LFR encounters might feel a bit too easy to some of you, but I think that the explanation for that also lies within that very same sentence; they’re the “first bosses” of the “first part” of LFR.
Let’s wait and see how the difficulty of LFR encounters progresses in the near future, if the overall feeling of the community is that the difficulty needs to be raised, we’ll make sure to pass that info along to the developers and if they happen to feel the same way about it, I’m sure they’ll be happy to adjust it.


We are sick of waiting. LFR difficult on the beta was much better, but you changed it because you knew how bad the current pool of players is.

Loot Finder is not "fun" and its not "experiencing content". Just listen to the suggestions made in the 700 pages of threads about the topic and do something more than adding Blizzard store pets.
Edited by Monkylord on 11/10/2012 13:19 BST
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100 Human Mage
15780
If skilled players had no motivation (gear) to join LFR, it would dilute LFR player quality even further.

LFR groups struggled a little bit on Fall of Deathwing early on when it was released. Then it was fine for several months. This summer though (leveled a rogue & joined a few times), it was a trap. You joined at Fall of Deathwing to find yourself in a "fail group". Someone would ninja-pull when the group didn't even have tanks or healers yet and then more people would leave and the cycler would repeat. Sometimes you got an actual pull, but the amount of AFK and slacking was so high that wipes were extremely likely. And then people would leave and the process would repeat indefinitely. Queue times were relatively short, but they got you nowhere.

But yeah... we did LFR last night and just facerolled without care of tactics and 1-shotted all bosses.
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100 Human Paladin
16225
11/10/2012 13:15Posted by Tiga
If skilled players had no motivation (gear) to join LFR, it would dilute LFR player quality even further.


How so?

Is this about LFR needing good players to carry the bad ones like in DS LFR?
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90 Orc Shaman
6815
10/10/2012 18:42Posted by Theralis
LFR is by far Blizzard's worst feature imo. It may get more people into raiding, but the result is a watered down illusion of a raid that is nothing more than a target dummy giving away epics. I hated every waking second I was there. Why was I there then you might ask? Because I'm a bit behind my guild on gear and we're progressing, so to limit the gap between around 355 item and the 389 item level of Normal raids, I was pretty much forced into the place. Well now that I've seen it, I'm never going back, and I sincerely hope people are gonna protest and boycott this abomination, especially since everything else is done so magnificently this expansion.


whole PvE system is a fail, this game should be based on PvP only, blizzard please remove PvE, it ruins the game with those crybabies.
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