LFR "difficulty" - are you serious!??

90 Night Elf Rogue
8795
personally if the tactics mean nothing remove them, all those spell effects probably passed peopels computers ability to cope with ;)

this is how the everyone should be able to do it argument works for me... not at all as its not experiencing content. BUt in the end its there choice to have a watered down peice of boredom i say leave them to it just share the lock out.
Reply Quote
90 Human Death Knight
11165
11/10/2012 13:59Posted by Retarjoe
b.) "We don't want to be forced to do LFR for progression" - Well, you're not "forced" but I get what people mean by this. Most of my guild seem to see it the opposite way and are thankful that they get a chance on the extra, optional LFR upgrade after being unlucky with drops in normal/heroic modes... dailies are "optional"... valor gear is "optional" and LFR is no different imo, think of it as a weekly quest with a chance at some lower-ilvl gear than normal modes.


I reply to B, because that is how I feel.

I don't care if LFR is as boring as watching paint dry, or easier than a 4 piece puzzle, just don't force me to do it to stay competitive.
And yes, unless you got full raiding gear from normal, you are forced to run LFR for upgrades to stay competitive, this can't be discussed, that's how it is.

Yes, dailies are optional, and gear, and raids, and playing this game is optional, I don't see your point.
Breathing is optional, but if you chose not to take the option you get set back from people who are taking said option. In this case, you die.
But in the game, you are competing with other players about getting X kill faster, or X achievement faster, and as long as you are competing, you are forced into LFR.
This is what I, personally, want removed, I see no reason in not having a shared lockout, other than players can get loot from 2 lockouts every week.
LFR gear is not needed to clear Normal, so that is no excuse either, but it's required if you play competitive, like I do, and I really dislike LFR, but I'm forced into it because it drops upgrades for me.

Maybe MSV LFR won't be viable for me in a few months or so, but then we will have a new "problem", the next raid within this tier will also have a LFR version, and then the cycle continues.


I do understand, I really do... and your opinion is obviously shared by many. But then again there are:

a.) People like myself that raid (can google Pure - Turalyon) and enjoy being at the top of their game who appreciate the added chance at loot from LFR.

b.) people like yourself who raid and don't want to be forced into doing LFR to stay competitive.

c.) people who raid, and don't mind LFR but don't believe others should get "comparable" quality items for doing nothing

d.) people who prefer normal modes but don't have the time/guild/dedication to raid on a scheduled basis, in this case getting alt runs every couple of weeks with the majority of their "raiding" consisting of LFR

e.) people who don't raid at all, run heroics and do dailies to cap valor per week (and that's pretty much it)

there are a fair few types of player in this game, far more than I've listed above - and bringing the comparison of "breathing is optional" into the discussion doesn't really hold weight - in the context of this argument it would be more akin to "having sex is optional, some people do it infrequently (if not at all) and still enjoy their lives."

If you make that choice to be competitive/go for server and/or world firsts then you will make use of any option presented to you - be that LFR/Valor/conquest/AH+Crafted etc and other, more casual players shouldn't be limited to what they can do just because the hardcore players feel that they have, what amounts to "too many options" to gear up.

However, I do understand what you're saying - I just don't agree with it
Reply Quote
Not excluding you from any options.

You still have the option to run LFR.
You still have the option to run Normal.

But you can only chose 1. Why are you so obsessed about everything being available to you?
Are you more important than the players who don't think more "options" is a good game philosophy?

By giving people a choice, Blizzard is not taking anything away from them, quite the opposite, they are making sure that content will last longer due to people not running it 2 times a week on one character.


Because LFR is something which can be done in less than an hour, once per week. Doing a normal mode PuG is a commitment for an evening. That is already a large difference in commitment. You might as well be harangueing the devs because you had to do heroics on your way to raiding or the dailies ( actually I am a bit unhappy about the dailies myself... but that is mostly because they force me to see my fellow players as a bunch of douches against whom I have to compete for mobs. If the developers take one thing from GW2, it should be more cooperative questing ).
Reply Quote
90 Dwarf Warlock
11215
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lPbfV-yhm4
Reply Quote
I don't mind if they make something a bit less complicated, but the difficulty indicated that they seem to think of the average LFR player as those who's soul means of communication is by blowing bubbles and filling up their adult diapers.

Exaggerated of course, but the point is painfully valid. Water it down enough and players are encouraged as much as they are challenged. Meaning that no one will like what it has become, not even those they claim to make it easy for.


Exaggeration is the exact problem. If you read LFR threads, it always seems like some people make the content out to be as if you cannot fail. But I've constantly seen LFR raids wipe, be it due to idiots ( of which there are always a few ) in late DS, who cannot be bothered to not burn down more than one tentacle on Spine or focus the tentacles on Madness or, at the current moment, people who just ignore encounter mechanics on Feng and the troll dude. Or just griefing elitists, of which I've also seen a few.

If they can't hold on to people's attention span, the subs will go down again. It all seems so contradictory; they build a game, get more people then they expect. They grow even more.

Then they start to lose subs, and can cover up the losses a bit by getting China back, and they battle this by lowering the bar in effort and reward. This doesn't yield the re subbing or new subs in terms of what it was before, but the decline keeps going regardless. Bottom line is you have a game aimed for less then it was intended, leaving those who supported it all this time with a bitter taste, with a bar set so low that the challenge and reward mechanism is all screwed up for even the most novice of players.


I actually feel overworked in MoP so far. I had to cut down to just maintaining this one character and putting all my twinks off for later, because I couldn't maintain a four-hour schedule per day doing dailies and dungeons. So I don't think that they'll be in danger of losing my sub for quite some time. I think there is a substantial number of people who also are not in any danger of running out of stuff to do.
Edited by Sîmbul on 11/10/2012 14:22 BST
Reply Quote
9 Dwarf Hunter
0
Call me a retard but i still dont get this LFR tool and what its purpose?
yes ofc alot of ppl will like to get free loot but is it really improving the game?
i dont see the point to play a game with no challange at all but what can i say, if ppl like that then who m i to make blizz a change of heart.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Monk
12470
6/6 Normal with 1/6 Heroic (will get Feng tonight easily!)

I'm annoyed by LFR. The items there are stronger than the 463 heroic gear I have. I don't mind doing PvP for PvE epics (Malevolent gear is placeholder and better than 463/476 epics) in order to progress through heroic modes because I enjoy PvP. I do not enjoy LFR. It makes the bosses look like they're easy and, amazingly, on both normal and heroic difficulties they are not. It's absolutely disgusting that I, someone who has cleared normal, has to use LFR as a "gearing method" because it's extra loot. I don't care about casuals/terrible players wanting to see content, I'm a 25 man raider doing heroic modes the way they're supposed to be done (yes, 10 man is a lot easier in heroic mode).

Just give LFR the same lockout as normal/heroic, or give LFR the same lockout as normal and allow raiding guilds to do both normal and heroic dungeons.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Hunter
11200

Off topic: After we killed Feng in LFR yesterday i chased after our tank and killed him with the Arcane Resonance. It was the only fun i have ever had in LFR.


im sorry but this kind of behaviour shows best what kind of people want the shared lockouts .

If u feel forced to doing something - call the police cause slavery is prohibited.

If u dont like that guild requires u to farm lfr - change guild cause u clearly feel bad while being in guild ur in atm.

If someone want to say about himself as being competitive stop whining abotu such little things like to run lfr once a week for shinies .

Look at the athlets at the last Olimpics - do u think that they whined about how much more efforet they put in to get the medals then average joe who drank beer in front of TV while watching them compete ?

U want to be competitive - dont whine only feel lucky that there are additional drops which could help u.

This is just a computer game - stop treating it so seriously - and if ur feeling that is has so much heavy impact on ur life that u need to start campaign against soemthing - u need to go out more often to the fresh air.
Edited by Liliith on 11/10/2012 14:34 BST
Reply Quote
1 Human Hunter
0
11/10/2012 12:45Posted by Zingzilla
Perhaps the ones complaining normal modes are too hard, find them too hard because they cannot find the time to dedicate to the game to actually be able to raid. Perhaps they're unable to get into a raiding guild, or maybe they work unsociable hours, meaning they can't raid when they do have time. Maybe they don't have the gear people are asking for to join in raids. There is a difference between not being arsed to raid, and not being able to. I could raid if I wanted, but don't, because my RL commitments would interfere with my guild's raiding schedule. I'm happy enough to sit and do LFR so at least I'm experiencing the content, even though it may be easy.


If they don't have time to raid, why are they complaining about not being able to raid? It's stupid. Like complaining about not playing football, cause you don't have time. Then maybe you should cancel your hockey lessons instead.

Let's say, you don't have time to raid. Raiding is an aspect of the game, that takes time. It is "Endgame" designed to make the game last longer. It was designed so those, who want to spend lots of time in the game have something to do, whilst there are other aspects for those, who spend less time ingame.

The content, that would normally have been fun, is in my opinion tuned down to a scale, where you can only enjoy it within a limited time, where as before it might have lasted longer. There are so many guilds out there, that I'm sure you could find one fitting your schedule, or maybe even find a pug. I have RL commitments too, but knowing that I'm not experiencing every single pixel of WoW, because I don't have time or feel the need to do so, which is my own fault, doesn't make me go whine on forums, making Blizzard.. shorten the game in a way, that affects the whole MMO-concept, and makes the subscription base fall dramatically.

I hate, when there are nothing left to do. I can't see the problem in not experiencing everything, as I would not be entertained by doing so. Cause it would be so easy, and it would be like being carried, which is how LFR works. Queing, pressing random buttons and needing on shiny stuff is not raiding. Why does raiding have to be tuned down to a level like this?

If you don't have time to raid, why can't you let the people, who actually have time to raid, let them have their raids, while you quest, PvP, level up professions, and have fun in other ways ingame?

Or atleast remove gear drops from LFR, so half of the player base aren't being forced to ruin their whole raiding experience.

IMO.
Reply Quote
Melee DPS stands in one place, steps out of fire if he feels like it, declares fight is too easy.

LFR has only ever been difficult for healers.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Hunter
17285
11/10/2012 14:28Posted by Liliith
im sorry but this kind of behaviour shows best what kind of people want the shared lockouts .


It shows that i was extremely bored by the LFR and i had to find a way to entertain myself.

Why were 10 and 25 modes put on the same lockout and LFR is not on the same lockout as Normal/Herioc??? Blizzard have been dodging this question for MONTHS now. I wanna know how they justify me wasting time in LFR, but its not okay to do 10 when you were in a 25 man guild.
Reply Quote
6/6 Normal with 1/6 Heroic (will get Feng tonight easily!)

I'm annoyed by LFR. The items there are stronger than the 463 heroic gear I have. I don't mind doing PvP for PvE epics (Malevolent gear is placeholder and better than 463/476 epics) in order to progress through heroic modes because I enjoy PvP. I do not enjoy LFR. It makes the bosses look like they're easy and, amazingly, on both normal and heroic difficulties they are not. It's absolutely disgusting that I, someone who has cleared normal, has to use LFR as a "gearing method" because it's extra loot. I don't care about casuals/terrible players wanting to see content, I'm a 25 man raider doing heroic modes the way they're supposed to be done (yes, 10 man is a lot easier in heroic mode).

Just give LFR the same lockout as normal/heroic, or give LFR the same lockout as normal and allow raiding guilds to do both normal and heroic dungeons.


Or just exercise self-control and don't run it if you don't actually need the gear.

End result is exactly the same, you don't get 476 epics to replace your 463s.

Of course you won't do that. You'll run it if it's available since you're hurting your raid otherwise. Yet somehow you're okay with running heroics, as if they're any harder than LFR? Why aren't you declaring that your heroic DS gear should carry you straight through to MSV normal, so you don't have to even touch that horrible scrubby casual content you so seem to despise.

Part of min/maxing is doing repetitive crap that you don't particularly enjoy.

If you had any sense, you'd look at LFR as a very realistic target dummy with full raid buffs, which lets you do a practice run for the real content, and getting occasional sidegrades in the process.
Reply Quote
11/10/2012 14:00Posted by Monkylord
The suggestion most of us agreed


I don't recall being consulted myself.

on was "Put LFR on shared lockout with Normal and Heroic". Remove the need for raiders to grind it and keep bad players there by themselves.


See...there's that "bad Players" attitude again. That's the type of attitude this game DOESN'T need.

Off topic: After we killed Feng in LFR yesterday i chased after our tank and killed him with the Arcane Resonance. It was the only fun i have ever had in LFR.


And this just shows the type of player you are. A jerk.

If you don't enjoy it...don't do it.
If you are in a guild that forces you to do it...leave.

EJL
Reply Quote

Why were 10 and 25 modes put on the same lockout and LFR is not on the same lockout as Normal/Herioc??? Blizzard have been dodging this question for MONTHS now. I wanna know how they justify me wasting time in LFR, but its not okay to do 10 when you were in a 25 man guild.


LFR drops lower item level gear. 10/25 drop the same item level gear.

Running the same content twice for the same ilevel gear is not okay.

Running the same content twice for different ilevel gear is okay.

Is that really so hard to understand?
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Monk
12470

If you had any sense, you'd look at LFR as a very realistic target dummy with full raid buffs, which lets you do a practice run for the real content, and getting occasional sidegrades in the process.


Because the damage/mechanics of LFR and heroic are in any way the same. I wish Cobalt Mines 1 shot people in LFR. That would be hilarious.


Running the same content twice for different ilevel gear is okay.

Is that really so hard to understand?

So why can't I run both normal and heroic modes? I'd rather run normal mode which is somewhat difficult over LFR which I can basically do nothing.
Edited by Nymíra on 11/10/2012 14:53 BST
Reply Quote
90 Troll Hunter
17285

Why were 10 and 25 modes put on the same lockout and LFR is not on the same lockout as Normal/Herioc??? Blizzard have been dodging this question for MONTHS now. I wanna know how they justify me wasting time in LFR, but its not okay to do 10 when you were in a 25 man guild.


LFR drops lower item level gear. 10/25 drop the same item level gear.

Running the same content twice for the same ilevel gear is not okay.

Running the same content twice for different ilevel gear is okay.

Is that really so hard to understand?


10 man used to drop 13 item levels lower gear in WotLK. People still ran both to increase their chances and Blizzard put them on the same lockout.

Same thing is happening now. LFR drops 13 item level lower gear and people run it to increase their chances, BUT Blizzard say its fine.

You need very powerful devotion to Blizzard to ignore this so easily.
Reply Quote
Community
11/10/2012 13:05Posted by Retarjoe
Could you maybe answer the question on why LFR doesn't share a lockout with the Normal raids?


This is actually something we might consider for the future.
There are quite a few logistical issues that we would need to sort out before we could apply such a change though. At the moment developers simply have to put their efforts into higher priority tasks and we don’t currently have a plan for this, but it might happen someday, it’s definitely not out of the realm of possibilities.

We would also like to see how LFR is used, perceived and viewed by the players during these next few weeks because the only basis for comparison that we have for LFR is DS, which is a completely different beast, not only the circumstances surrounding Cataclysm are extremely different from the ones in MoP, but LFR itself has also changed quite a bit.
Reply Quote
11/10/2012 15:01Posted by Taepsilum
Could you maybe answer the question on why LFR doesn't share a lockout with the Normal raids?


This is actually something we might consider for the future.
There are quite a few logistical issues that we would need to sort out before we could apply such a change though. At the moment developers simply have to put their efforts into higher priority tasks and we don’t currently have a plan for this, but it might happen someday, it’s definitely not out of the realm of possibilities.

We would also like to see how LFR is used, perceived and viewed by the players during these next few weeks because the only basis for comparison that we have for LFR is DS, which is a completely different beast, not only the circumstances surrounding Cataclysm are extremely different from the ones in MoP, but LFR itself has also changed quite a bit.


Jesus Christ, Taepsilum. Don't fall into the trap of listening solely to the extremist whiners. Give the people who try to play at a less asinine rate a chance to do both if they want. Please do not take away options to appease a very vocal and never satisfied minority!
Reply Quote
90 Troll Hunter
17285
11/10/2012 15:01Posted by Taepsilum
We would also like to see how LFR is used


And what would that bring? You will count me in your statistic as someone who Lives and Breaths for LFR every week just because i do it every week. Your numbers will not show who liked it and who hated it.

Your "statistics" are just used for PR spins, nothing more.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
13520
11/10/2012 15:01Posted by Taepsilum
Could you maybe answer the question on why LFR doesn't share a lockout with the Normal raids?


This is actually something we might consider for the future.
There are quite a few logistical issues that we would need to sort out before we could apply such a change though. At the moment developers simply have to put their efforts into higher priority tasks and we don’t currently have a plan for this, but it might happen someday, it’s definitely not out of the realm of possibilities.

We would also like to see how LFR is used, perceived and viewed by the players during these next few weeks because the only basis for comparison that we have for LFR is DS, which is a completely different beast, not only the circumstances surrounding Cataclysm are extremely different from the ones in MoP, but LFR itself has also changed quite a bit.


Oh?

In Cataclysm you didn't get gems for legendaries on 2 or 3 bosses downed, the loot seems increased in drop chance now, what's to compare?
Prior going into this expansion you also expressed understanding how LFR wasn't meant to be a 'must go to' place for organised raiders, yet with the above it's even more that place now then before.

I remember a blue post not long ago where you also expressed that LFR would require substantially more team work, while some mechanics naturally was left out.

Personally everything that's gone on from prior to Pandaria and until now, including your reply is all lies to try and keep people happy!

Let me tell you how you can compare LFR to Ds my friend, look at your character count from Ds *facedesks*
Now think a little logical, you've upped the loot drop, you've added sigils to the giftshop.., the rate of characters visiting the place will be exactly the same or higher if possible.

It would be even higher still if you added a mount to it, begin your pardon.., but how thick do you need to be to become an employee at blizzard?

The sole reason I refuse to go there despite being 100% sure to get sigils and upgrades, is because I don't want to be part of a useless statistic promoting that sort of feature which in turn promotes lazy and bad play style!
Edited by Banzhe on 11/10/2012 15:16 BST
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]