600 Blacksmithing is a JOKE

90 Human Paladin
8045
Hi everyone.

Ok, so I got Blacksmithing to 600 another day and realized how bad this profession is at 600!
I'm not the only one...I've read some threads about this aswell and people are complaining about this profession.

The main problem is we are dependant on another profession (Alchemy).
This shouldn't be the case since the minning should give us the most materials required.

So at 600, we can't even make a Buckle because it requires living steel made by Alchemists. which has a 1day CD!
The epic gear I can understand it requires more mats but a buckle, which is basicaly the only thing we can actual sell to have a small profit.
Crafted PvP gear is kinda useless since is too easy to farm honor...
Epic crafted gear way overpriced to even make & sell.

Lets see some of the other professions:

Alchemy: can make flasks, elixyrs by gathering thier own herbs with herbalism. Transmute is optional.
Leatherworking: can make armor kits, epic BoE gear just by killing animals and getting the Leather by skinning them. No dependant on other crafting profession.
Jewelcrafting: Can get gems just by minning. The exception are the Meta gems(alch).
Inscription:Can make Glyphs just by gatherting herbs.
Tailoring: Can craft blue and epic quality gear with just cloth which is free just like LW need to kill&skin monsters.

Now Blacksmithing: Can't create Belt Buckles; can't create Epic quality gear because all of this needs LIVING STEEL which is made by ALCHEMISTS.
So my point is, we BS are the only proffession that requires another proffession just to make a simple thing like a Buckle, so at 600 we can't have profit, period.
We should be able to create living steel aswell, with 1 day CD or something and requiring trillium which is very rare!

Leatherworkers and Tailors can create thier own materials for epic gear...why can't we???

This is ridiculous!

Another thing about the previous buckles:

WotLK:
Eternal Belt Buckle
requires Saronite, Eternal Earth, Water, Shadow. All obtainable by minning.

Cata:
Ebonsteel Belt Buckle
requires Elementium, Pyrium and Volatile Earth. All obtainable by minning.

MoP:
Living Steel Belt Buckle
requires Living Steel. NOT OBTAINABLE BY MINNING. We can obtain the ore yes BUT we need a Alchemist to have a Cooldown ready so we can pay to have our mats turn into Living Steel which is ridiculous

And by comparison some of our epic patterns require more mats than Leatherworker ones for example...
This needs to be balanced!

TL: DR
Blacksmithing requires living steel to craft anything at 600, which is made by Alchemists ONLY.
We can't even smelt Living Steel...
We should be able to get our own mats to craft blue and epic gear like Leatherworkers and Tailors do!
So we rely on another proffessions instead of our own gathering proffession.
This needs to be fixed.
Alt char with Alch is not the solution
Edited by Fmlsidays on 09/10/2012 19:02 BST
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85 Gnome Rogue
10300
I want to craft my sulfuron hammer,but i cant make arcanite bar with my BS character.This is JOKE.Why should I depend on other profession?So Blizz I want my own arcanite bars.I know that I am late like 8years,but I dont care.I want it,cause I think thats the best way.I dont care what other people say.
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90 Human Paladin
8045
I just call for balance.

Tailors can get all cloth from mobs
LW can get all leather from skinning mobs
JC can get almost all the profit from minning = prospecting= free gems. No metas tho.
Alchemists can get mats from using herbalism = free herbs = free flasks/elixyrs. Transmute is optional.
Inscription can get mats from herbalism, free as well.
Blacksmithers CAN'T get it from minning/smelting...coz you need another craftiing proffession, alchemy to transmute.

Doesn't not make sense to me.

Of course some items should require other proffs materials...but NOT ALL 600 skill items! That's not fair.
Edited by Fmlsidays on 09/10/2012 19:04 BST
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85 Human Paladin
7520
The main problem is we are dependant on another profession (Alchemy).
This shouldn't be the case since the minning should give us the most materials required.


Your point is usless. Mining is another prof. get alc instead of mining problem solved. or do like alot others, get a alt with alc.
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
11445
Tbh mining/bs has always been bad, its ok when the new extention starts then after a while they stick the better recipes into raids, so if you dont raid you have to buy them for crazy prices. Cata i made far more money on alchemist than bs.

The belt buckle was far to easy to make before and there was a lot of compotion in ah and it was far cheaper than any other enchant made.

I think they tried to make it harder so maybe the cost would be in comparison as any other enchant, but its crazy to have to rely on alchemist to transmute.

And to make it worse yes trillium is a rare mine, and im struggling to find black trillium, but low and behold alchemist can transmute 10 bars of ghost to make 1 trillium and it has no CD.

Yes BS sucks
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BS gets irritating when you need 10+ of an ore you need 2x to get 1 bar with.
and you forgot engineering, which seems to require leather sometimes.
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90 Draenei Paladin
11405
Make the PVP sets? a friend of mine earned over 200k by doing this since mop release.
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26 Human Warrior
8665
I don't think Living Steel is the issue.

I'm more peeved at the fact that Living Steel Belt Buckle requires it. In both Wrath of the Lich King and Cataclysm the equivalent required second tier materials. Now there's no more middle ground. You either need low end materials or high end materials.

With how much they've improved upon secondary professions in this expansion, I was hopeful that we'd see similar improvement for main professions. Sadly they where unable to deliver upon that hope with Blacksmithing and Engineering.

Oh well, perhaps with the next expansion.
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90 Human Paladin
8045
The main problem is we are dependant on another profession (Alchemy).
This shouldn't be the case since the minning should give us the most materials required.


Your point is usless. Mining is another prof. get alc instead of mining problem solved. or do like alot others, get a alt with alc.


You did not understand.
You need a gathering proffession to feed your crafting proffession(tailoring is a exception)
LW->Skinning
JC->Minning
BS->Minning
etc

But I was comparaing BS 600 to other 2 crafting proffessions, Tailoring and LW.
As a 600, they can farm all the mats by themselves(obviously LW with skinning).
Also JC(with minning...logical craft+gather) can make gems which people always need.
LW pant enchants/epic gear etc with skinning.
Tailor pant enchants/epic gear.
BS...is dependant on alch to make belt buckles (which ppl will need). Making pvp sets theres some profit true, but honor is very easy to farm nowadays which makes it worse to sell any piece. Epics...it's impossible to make because you need sh*t loads of living steel which we need from alch...
Alt character with Alch is not the solution either.
BS should work like LW/Tailoring/JC which basicaly are fed by thier respective gathering proff.

Your suggestion to have BS + Alch makes no sense...in the next expansion I would have to change to minning again or even earlier...if I need to get more Ore.
Buying off AH is not the solution.
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Since the days of Arcanite Bars Enchanting has been linked to Blacksmithing and (to a lesser extent) Engineering for materials. This isn't news.

This enforces greater synergies between professions and overall benefits the economy.
The cooldowns are there to ensure the AH isn't flooded with items too quickly.

A belt buckle is mandatory for anyone serious about endgame so it is usually in medium/high demand while people upgrade tiers. If buckles were made with Ghost Iron Bar, they would be selling for 20 G and you would have hundreds of them on the AH with no chance of selling them because supply would outstrip demand.

From an enchanter's point of view, it's the same. You have a low volume (1 transmutation per day) high value material that sells well for a while. Whenever a cooldown on transmutation is removed, the AH gets flooded and the value drops like a ton of brick.

And no, you do not NEED to be a miner to level blacksmithing. Ores can be bought off the AH. If you choose not to buy off the AH because you want to farm your own materials, that's a call YOU made. It is an investment trade off (time vs gold).

I'm not saying that BS is perfect at max level either but all professions have some drawbacks to balance their respective advantages.
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90 Night Elf Warrior
15155
Blizzard should give us Living steel bar from Ghost Iron Ore or Trillium i dont care its utter bullcrap the way they twisted it now almost make me want to stop the game after 6 years of fun. In my eyes they ****** bigtime !!

Now pls give us Living steel to Blacksmiths. I dont have the time or patience/money to pay 1200-3800 gold per living steel transmute to scammers on Silvermoon server, please fix your error to the game or see people leave the game because you forced their toons to lvl another char with Alchymist to max, its utterly wrong of Blizzard to dictate people to play up another char for profession only i thought you were more adult !!

To make another char to lvl 90, well no, i allready have 3 more chars in my guild i need to lvl up from 85. with Tailor, enchanter/gemcutter en leatherworker on them.

If you dont make Living Steel for Blacksmiths soon this expansion going to suxx because i cant make my epic gear set to start raid i have to wait 16 days !! yes 16 days on Living steel transmute and pay 36000-42000 gold to make 2 epic pieces of armor....shaking my head and making noises behind screen...!!
Edited by Grothrill on 11/10/2012 16:04 BST
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90 Night Elf Warrior
15155
I suggest you give us living steel from 1 Trillium bar and 10 Ghost bar and with an 2 hour cooldown. Thank you Blizzard. I hope you read the forums too !!
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
6545
Now add 4 to that 2 hour cooldown and it would be ok... 24 hour like all other main profs!
But yea, BS is useless this exp, plans need rep, items are bad, mats are unreal... dont know why would anyone bother to get it up to 600

And engi, at 90 you get... tinkers, and thats about it! First raid you will replace 5k+ goggles and trinket is gone with first heroic dungeon, and noone will ever need it again.

I just hope engi wont be like in previous expansions, where they get nothing new after release, and goggles become worthless even in first raid and till next exp all you are left with are tinker upgrades.

Guess we can only hope that it will improve soon...
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90 Human Warrior
16330
Blacksmith has been an amazing gold maker for me for 8 years running now. But there are a few things that are annoying the hell out of me right now, as I said it's a great gold maker and I've made about 200k during the first 2 weeks of MoP, but here is what's annoying me.

Living Steel for Weapon Chain and Belt Buckle. Should have been Trillium.

No tier 2 bars/ore, mostly a mining issue. But Kyparite should have been smeltable into bars, which should be used in the higher level blue/epic recipes. Something like 2 Kyparite into a bar, and 10 bars into a solid bar. You know what I mean.

Blue weapons are not worth crafting. The 463 blue weapons are not worth crafting, there the same item level as heroic weapons and require 5 spirit of harmonys, you'll get alot more gold and alot quicker sells using those harmonys on the epic crafts. The epic crafts will keep the value of spirits up, which will keep the value of those blue crafted weapons up, and nobody will pay over 10k for a 463 blue weapon when you can get a 450 blue weapon from a quest in a scenario and 463 weapons from heroics.

There was no plate PvE DPS set and no plate PvE heal set to craft. While pumping out the PvP gear I made alot of gold, could have made more if I had another area of the market to cover, could just be me being greedy, but still, why none of those armor types to craft?

The first tier of epic crafts are almost becoming worthless. They are 476, this is the same item level as raid finder which is free loot, nobody can argue that it isn't because it just is. To further reduce there value, in the new raids there are Blacksmith patterns that drop and they offer item level 496 gloves and chest. Why gloves and chest again? Why not legs and feet or belt and helm?

It makes absolutly no sense to have 476 crafted chest and gloves ready a couple of days into MoP, and then 2 weeks later have 496 crafted chest and gloves ready. I allready have a 496 crafted gloves pattern and it requires 2 less Living Steel, 6 less Spirit of Harmony, has 19 higher item level, then again it does require 6 Blood Spirit but there allready popping up on the AH no differn't to living steels high price at the start of the expansion.
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90 Night Elf Warrior
14340
Why is everyone looking at professions solely from a gold-making view? Professions shouldn't be just "open this window, click this, close window and wait to collect your gold".

I enjoyed every minute of the grind to Stormherald and Dragonstrike, i almost peed myself when i crafted my chopper and Cooking is awesome at the moment if you are into that kind of thing... where is that excitement in blacksmithing now and what will you remember from it?

I am not even there mentally anymore when am doing bs/mining. Fly for an hour with eyes fixed on minimap > goto forge and afk for a few min > make some crap!@#$ > list on ah > exit zombie mode. That's all there is to it.

So the issue for me is not about reliance to other professions or non-profitability, people will go through all sorts of loops and hoops and cooperate with other professions if it's rewarding enough, also helping the economy at the same time. If the devs are looking for fresh ideas, just ask... am sure the community will deliver. Just hoping we get some attention soon.
Edited by Kirupa on 12/10/2012 13:09 BST
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90 Human Warrior
7955
I enjoyed every minute of the grind to Stormherald and Dragonstrike, i almost peed myself when i crafted my chopper and cooking is awesome at the moment if you are into that kind of thing... where is that excitement in blacksmithing now and what will you remember from it?


I think for a part that many have simply given-up on expecting that level of engagement from their profession. I hope the day of Lionheart will one day return, but I don't expect it. Blizzard has often stated that they didn't want to occupy a slot by making a Profession weapon or armour 'best in slot' (Or near to that).

I don't agree with that design, since it simply devalues professions as a whole. But it is how it is. At the end of the day, they make game.

Talking about Lionheart makes me a bit sad, I should have never went Armour smiting!
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Why don't you just have another character that does the proff what you need????
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90 Dwarf Paladin
9575
My only issue with Blacksmithing atm is the lack of PVE healing and DPS plans.
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OP hit the nail on the head, we rely too much on other professions, namely alchemy.

"Blacksmithing, to make epic gear requires Spirits or Harmony... EIGHT of them, I've been doing dailies every other day since MoP was released, and I have 5.

Epic gear also requires a large amount of living steel that we can't even fecking make! so it already costs us ~12,000g for the living steel alone. Oh, and then they throw some trillium costs in cause, you know, it's Blacksmithing afterall.

Tailoring epics, requires 4 imperial silk and you can make one per day as a tailor.... that's it...

It's ridiculous, I can't craft anything as a blacksmith, not even belt buckles anymore because I'll either make 1% profit, which is pointless, or no-one will buy my necessarily overpriced items."

From a thread i accidently necro'ed.
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90 Human Warrior
9185
The one thing that bugs me about the fact that the latest belt buckle requires an extremely valuable material like living steel is that the cata belt buckle cannot be used for MoP gear. It would have been nicer to have belt buckles with gem item level requirements rather than belt buckles with armor item level requirement.
But, at least you can buy the living steel, and it's sold in the AH by alchemists who don't need it for anything else. So in MoP, having a belt buckle is simply an expensive, high-end addon like so many others.

The fact that living steel is also needed for epic armor, which has lower item level than some raids, which you have to get faction reputation for the plans ... well, makes me feel like a poor homeless blacksmith.

I assume that Blizzard counts on Spirit of Harmony becoming more frequent later-on. It's a slowdown measure so that people don't explode into maximum gear right away. Let's hope that there are enough alchemists out there who like farming, because once they can harvest 16 Mote of Harmony a day, the price for living steel wil likely drop. It all hinges on this material, and as I stated in another thread, the only thing that might be imbalanced is that other people are simply doing the piss-easy LFD over and over and run around with superior gear that makes any blacksmith become frustrated.

But let's see how it develops in the coming weeks. (Probably dropping prices for mats, but also for crafted gear, making professions almost pointless.)
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