Feedback on the current season.

90 Night Elf Warrior
15135
Greetings fellow forumers, and hopefully blues who will read this and pass it on to their developers.

What I've experienced so far in this season can be listed in numerous points, and has unfortunately made me quit the game as it is now. I'm going to list these below:

  • #1 150k+ crits on full resilience targets
  • #2 Globalling
  • #3 Too much control on classes who do not need it
  • #4 Too much damage in general
  • #5 Too much healing at times
  • #6 Too much burst in both healing and damage
  • #7 Too many spells to give or take in arena battles
  • #8 Dispel not working properly
  • #9 Diminishing Returns
  • More, descripted feedback of each of the points.

    #1: 150k+ crits on full resilience targets

    - This, has been seen by mostly BM hunters using Stampede, usually bursting someone down in a matter of mini seconds. And no, this is not exageration.

  • What I could see as a fix on this, is either a removal or 80% less damage done on the pets, and give them more duration, which results in less burst, but still an overall DPS increase with the duration of the pets.
  • - This, has also been seen in numerous occastions though as a bursting way, exceeding the numbers of 150k and eventually leading to death within mere seconds, caused by these classes burst: Mages, Warlocks, Warriors

  • What I could see as a fix on this, is a downright damage nerf to all of the classes. Chaos Bolt nerf with a 50% damage decrease, but a faster cast time, leading it to be at the same damage, but not exactly as bursty. Frost Mages just having their masteries removed because it's been out of control for way too long. Warriors, Skull Banner, Avatar, Berserker Rage, Trinket and all other cooldowns has to be on a seperate cooldown-management, having them not be able to be used at the same time, they are causing too much damage and are way too much out of control. You know you are, don't disagree with me.
  • #2 Globalling

    - This is a short one. I met a Rogue, Hunter and a Holy Paladin comp last night at around 2k~mmr in 3s, they managed to drop my DK, my Warrior and myself to 10% almost spiking every second between us, leading to us actually being dead within 15 seconds. This isn't right.
  • What I recommend as a fix would be something equivalent to reducing values of health and mana, to a number where scaling would be easier to edit and properly get a hold of and fix. If not that, then I recommend reducing all damage, health, mana, healing with 50% within arenas. With a side bonus of 20% reduced overall damage.
  • #3 Too much control on classes who do not need it.

    - This is a topic that needs to be adressed swiftly and dealt with. I'm seeing classes who has too much damage, and ontop of that an ability to lock down players for more than half the time needed to execute a target within this expansion. The classes who needs to be looked at and dealt with are these:
  • Warriors
  • Mages
  • Hunters
  • Warlocks
  • These are the classes that trouble me the most. Hunters with their scatter-trap-silence-petstun and rinse repeat. Warriors with their double charge, Shockwave, Intimidating Shout and a double silence. Mages, well, need I say more? Warlocks, with their instant fears needs to be looked at, instant CC with 8 second duration, no thank you.

    #4 Too much damage in general
    - I've probably repeated this a few times, but there's way too much burst damage in the game, and it needs to be sorted. Resilience will not fix this.

    #5 Too much healing at times
    - Whereas healing is not always too much, I fear every class' burst healing is needed because of the damage in the game and the control that comes with it. This also needs to be adressed with what I adressed earlier with smaller vallues and easier to accordingly fix.

    #6 Too much burst healing and damage
    - Felt like I needed to repeat this. See #5, #4, #3, #2 and #1 for more information.

    #7 Too many spells to give or a take in arena battles
    - Over the time, where arenas started in The Burning Crusade, we didn't really have alot of spells to choose from, which made every class unique and very limited. This isn't a problem anymore as every class and their mothers seem to have a spell for everything and even the things we do not need. There's too many spells, and too many things to counter these spells.
    - In short, there's too god damn many excess spells we do not need around and is basicly just a filler to make everything look shiny for casual players. Infuriating.

    #8 Dispel not working properly
    - With dispel on friendly targets having a cooldown and on enemy targets not having one, I can't feel anything else but wanting to have this being opposite, am I the only one thinking this way? With all the control and the debuffs in the game at the moment, maybe what we need is purge and the equivalence on cooldown.

    #9 Diminishing Returns
    - This, is the most annoying topic of all of them. The diminishing returns in this game as it is right now is downright pathetic, and it's not getting better. Having spells that gets you controlled up to 30+ seconds is not really anywhere near balanced as killing off a target from 100 -> 0% takes less than 4-5 seconds for the average player.
  • What I recommend as a fix would be having EVERY spell in the game on a diminishing return, leading to no control getting you above the 12 second limit, leading to some people actually having a moment to do something before they get globalled.
  • You asked for feedback numerous times, this is the most descriptive and positive feedback I can give you, and I hope to god that you will make this a proper game in the future.

    Nishea
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    1 Dwarf Priest
    0
    sry but i play 3v3 rdruid warrior bm hunter and i find this season balanced in our favor
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    90 Human Death Knight
    16635
    10/10/2012 11:16Posted by Ææl
    sry but i play 3v3 rdruid warrior bm hunter and i find this season balanced in our favor


    until you meet triple bm hunter....joke vs joke i know
    Reply Quote
    90 Human Death Knight
    5780
    Well i do agree on that Nishea.
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    Community
    10/10/2012 11:04Posted by Nishea
    hopefully blues who will read this and pass it on to their developers.
    *Glances around the room* Oh, right!

    10/10/2012 11:04Posted by Nishea
    You asked for feedback numerous times, this is the most descriptive and positive feedback I can give you
    This is indeed a very nice post where you have clearly outlined your concerns and given feedback on what you would like to see changed, thank you Nishea! :)

    Let's have at it everyone; do the same as Nishea and outline in a nice, clear and concise way what your largest concern is right now in PvP, then give your feedback on it.
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    90 Draenei Warrior
    0
    10/10/2012 11:04Posted by Nishea
    Greetings fellow forumers

    Hello there, cutiepie!

    I agree on what you think the problems are, and I have my views on how they should be fixed, but your suggestions are pretty good as well. Thumbs up.
    Edited by Ayano on 10/10/2012 12:39 BST
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    90 Human Paladin
    14665
    #5 Too much healing at times
    - Whereas healing is not always too much, I fear every class' burst healing is needed because of the damage in the game and the control that comes with it. This also needs to be adressed with what I adressed earlier with smaller vallues and easier to accordingly fix.


    Healing is far to high along with damage, they go hand in hand but you can't nerf one without nerfing the other.

    - In short, there's too god damn many excess spells we do not need around and is basicly just a filler to make everything look shiny for casual players. Infuriating.


    Yes, there's to many "hey i need to survive, oh I can look another button" spells, Blizzard said themselves they didn't manage to clear the spell book up as much as they wanted to so hey maybe next xpac.

    #8 Dispel not working properly
    - With dispel on friendly targets having a cooldown and on enemy targets not having one, I can't feel anything else but wanting to have this being opposite, am I the only one thinking this way? With all the control and the debuffs in the game at the moment, maybe what we need is purge and the equivalence on cooldown.


    This hurts some classes more then others, for example Paladins and Shamans really get destroyed by this because we don't have dispel protection whiles Priests do.

    My Sacred Shield is never on the target against a Shaman or Mage, same applys to Earth Shield for Shamans it's just never up, a 10 - 12 second CD on it would be the best.

    - This, is the most annoying topic of all of them. The diminishing returns in this game as it is right now is downright pathetic, and it's not getting better. Having spells that gets you controlled up to 30+ seconds is not really anywhere near balanced as killing off a target from 100 -> 0% takes less than 4-5 seconds for the average player.


    Something needs to be done about blankets mainly and roots.
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    90 Blood Elf Priest
    7885
    10/10/2012 12:40Posted by Mírion
    This hurts some classes more then others, for example Paladins and Shamans really get destroyed by this because we don't have dispel protection whiles Priests do.


    Where is my supposed dispel protection? all of my absorbs can be dispelled ( incl. spirit shell & power word : shield )

    10/10/2012 12:35Posted by Nakatoir
    Let's have at it everyone; do the same as Nishea and outline in a nice, clear and concise way what your largest concern is right now in PvP, then give your feedback on it.


    The priest forum is actually full of it;
    here is one such thread http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/5586968841?page=2#27

    But really take whom ever is responsible for class balance changes and force them to play as discipline priests in random battle grounds and arena for a couple of hours on live servers - that should give them all the data points they need ( provided they can retain their sanity )
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    18 Troll Hunter
    10735
    10/10/2012 12:35Posted by Nakatoir
    Let's have at it everyone; do the same as Nishea and outline in a nice, clear and concise way what your largest concern is right now in PvP, then give your feedback on it.

    And then what?

    But fine, whatever, let's play by your rules.

    My biggest gripes:

    #1 Not resetting MMR. This helps MMR abusers from the previous season to camp their rating. The camping forces the rest of the ladder down. This is not fun.

    #2 Insane damage from warriors and BM hunters. Warriors one-shot people. BM hunters nearly one-shot people, and they can do this every minute. Health pools in arenas jump up and down like crazy. This is not fun.

    I have more, but let's keep it simple. Fix these two, then we will talk about the rest.
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    Pls take a look at bg forums too, bots are increasing concern in sub 90 level bg. I prefer leveling via bgs, and I just cant because of the amount of bots.
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    90 Draenei Mage
    7830
    You cant just keep adding CC and utilities to the game without reworking the whole DR system.
    Just adding ways to escape a CC is not a good solution.

    People just list what they believe is the current most "OP" class and complain about it.
    But in general, take a look at ALL the classes and the amount of utilities and CC they have. Like, suddenly several classes have a "vanish", knockbacks, sprint, blink/charge and so on.
    Was this really nessesary?

    The more abilities you add to the game, the less timing and skill is required. Its become a race to pop CDs, and about who`s "OP" or not.

    If you are a mage, the whole idea is to get somebody deep frozen and kill them off - preferably before they touch you.
    The same goes for a hunter, just CC somebody and pop everything and pray it kills them.
    Pretty much every DPS-spec can burst anybody down in a matter of a few seconds now.

    10/10/2012 12:46Posted by Zakkar
    Let's have at it everyone; do the same as Nishea and outline in a nice, clear and concise way what your largest concern is right now in PvP, then give your feedback on it.

    Warriors one-shot people.


    Also, this annoy me. People getting killed by a class and then go to the forums to spread lies about one-shotting and millions of damage.

    But lets hope Blizzard can ignore theese people.
    Edited by Spenoline on 10/10/2012 12:59 BST
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    67 Undead Warlock
    500
    This season is already a disaster simply because of the no MMR reset.
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    90 Human Paladin
    14665
    Where is my supposed dispel protection? all of my absorbs can be dispelled ( incl. spirit shell & power word : shield )


    Grace stacks, renew, borrowed time, prayer, Divine Aeigs? But yeah disc has no dispel protection at all.
    Reply Quote
    90 Human Rogue
    8290
    You cant just keep adding CC and utilities to the game without reworking the whole DR system.
    Just adding ways to escape a CC is not a good solution.

    People just list what they believe is the current most "OP" class and complain about it.
    But in general, take a look at ALL the classes and the amount of utilities and CC they have. Like, suddenly several classes have a "vanish", knockbacks, sprint, blink/charge and so on.
    Was this really nessesary?

    The more abilities you add to the game, the less timing and skill is required. Its become a race to pop CDs, and about who`s "OP" or not.

    If you are a mage, the whole idea is to get somebody deep frozen and kill them off - preferably before they touch you.
    The same goes for a hunter, just CC somebody and pop everything and pray it kills them.
    Pretty much every DPS-spec can burst anybody down in a matter of a few seconds now.


    This is such a good post. Bloating the game with all this abilities seriously was not the best idea at all.

    But you had to edit your post hadn't you..
    Edited by Xavaine on 10/10/2012 13:01 BST
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    18 Troll Hunter
    10735
    10/10/2012 12:54Posted by Spenoline
    Also, this annoy me. People getting killed by a class and then go to the forums to spread lies about one-shotting and millions of damage.

    What's your point? Are you saying that warriors don't one-shot people (OK, let's say that they hit for 70-80% of health, better?) or that they should one-shot people under certain circumstances?
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    90 Blood Elf Priest
    7885
    10/10/2012 12:54Posted by Spenoline
    You cant just keep adding CC and utilities to the game without reworking the whole DR system.


    Take the Que from SWTOR resolve system - they might have gotten everything else wrong, but that was brilliant.
    Reply Quote
    90 Human Rogue
    14035
    To add to the debacle of not resetting MMR, make sure that when you guys finally do that, you reset team rating aswell this time, else it would completely ruin the point and the season will remain yet another pointless one...which would be a shame in an otherwise well designed expansion like this.

    As mentioned before the simple damage output of some classes is completely out of control, warriors/BM hunters/warlocks do wáy to much damage, you'd expect there to be some sort of tradeoff but theres not, their survivability is excellent too, why did you guys change a warriors recklessness to one of the best survivability abilities on a short cooldown ? why are BM hunters healing so much ? why are warlocks healing/absorbing so much ?

    When you compare it to some classes like the one I play myself or the proud new monks(dps), the balance is non existant and at the moment, to me it feels like Im paying a subscription for a game which only manages to frustrate me.

    Also I genuinly wonder why you guys need us to tell you what needs fixing, the problems are so painfully obvious that it makes it seem you guys dont actually play the pvp part of this game yourselves.
    Reply Quote
    90 Dwarf Paladin
    4655
    Ok, so here is my feedback:

    MOP Arena impression

    #1. Last minute decisions with no explanations - No MMR reset, No entry level PvP weapons
    Solution: Reset MMR next season and dont change your mind 2 minutes before release. Patch in honor pvp weapons.

    #2. Symbiosis working in arena ! (thank you as a holy paladin for "Rebirth" really useful while mages gets Healing Touch or Priest Cyclone, pvp balance at its finest...)
    Solution: Disable Symbiosis for arena

    #3. OP Classes + Globaling

    Warriors = 3 man PvE boss with huge damage on cooldowns, super mobility, super control and extreme fully automatic selfhealing
    BM hunters - no comments really, see feedback above
    Mage - frost bomb combo hitting full pvp geared ppl in deep freeze for 120k
    WarLock - 140k Chaos Bolts on full pvp geared ppl

    Due to insane damage (even when wearing full Dreadful) ppl are dying in few seconds to double or triple dps FOTM comps
    Solution: Its so broken that I start to thing its beyond repair, but you have very talented developers so I hope they will find some...

    #4. Too much cooldowns and control - when do you plan to stop adding new buttons to press? I mean I like new things but this now feels more like playing piano and super fast cause the healing and damage is so bursty. Everyone now got everything - just crazy.
    Solution: Remove some control and cooldowns from most problematic specs and decide to give them more dmg or more control not both at the same time. Remove, combine some cooldowns and/or not allow people to unload all at one time!

    #5. Selfhealing - why are there even healers in pvp? Everyone now got so potent defensive and selfhealing abilities that doubbe or triple dps classes are doing better then those with healers. You need 2 dps to unload burst to take down warrior, ret healing OP, shadow priest healing OP, balance druid same...
    Solution: Reduce it and remove some completely so that healers are actually needed.

    My impression:
    New Expansion and new Season is showing how serious Blizzard takes balance in PvP and how "high" on a priority list it is for the release. I think this is most imbalanced start I have ever seen.
    Absolutely no reason to play Arena until a patch comes. Really sad to see what you released and cant understand how this could pass any internal or open beta testing.

    Final suggestion : Please admit finally that you are unable to balance this game for PvE and PvP with the same game systems. Separate it and balance separately so that its fair and square - skill based pvp experience for both types of your customers.
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    18 Troll Hunter
    10735
    I have to say I am very impressed by the post from Tulkkas above. I support every word. Tulkkas, you are the man, thank you for making this post.

    My only exception is that I think the MMR should be reset this season, this week or the next one at the latest. Current arenas are downright silly, the ratings mostly show who had more OP specs / got luckier hitting a macro.
    Edited by Zakkar on 10/10/2012 13:51 BST
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