Feedback on the current season.

90 Undead Warrior
6810

It's difficult to just remove the instant silences (and interrupts for that matter), because in the PvE game you have many situations where the gameplay revolves around quick reflexes and instantly silencing or interrupting (most noticably, probably many of the new rare mobs in the outdoor .


For me it feels like the style of hotfixing á la Colossus smash was so tiresome for blizzard that they declared "NEVER AGAIN!"

If an essential aspect of PVE is hurting the PvP side, why can they not they not add in a little "does not work in pvp" or "50% effciciency in Pvp" etc etc. Hell why can't the flatout damage of spells be fixed in the same way?

As OP stated the numbers are too high across the board, there's little to no entertainment in popping offensive cd's and mashing your keyboard for easy kills.

I think Blizz did a lot of fixing where it wasn't broke (+ a bit of overdoing).. and balance has spiralled out
Edited by Kõmamura on 15/10/2012 13:11 BST
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Warrior
10320
This might seem drastic to some people. But like many in here, I needed asnwers.
So, I called blizzard, this is what they said.

They're ALWAYS reading what we write, but due to how many we are compared to how many who are reading through these posts, there is just not enough to always reply to everything we write, but they are reading it. They want us to continue giving feedback, they're appreciating it alot and are looking into these things aswell as considering some of our suggestions.

So, here are my suggestions.
Not all are as detailed of how to do it or what to replace it for.

Chaosbolt- I were thinking of reducing chaosbolt damage by 50% on players, still making it viable in pve and pvp, but 160k+ is just way to much on a target.

Cooldowns- Remove the ability to use all cooldowns at once, but keep allowing the trinket to be used with what ever, that way we have to plan what to use it with and which cd to use when.

Hunter pvp set bonus- Remove second set bonus- perhaps replace it with reduced CD on deterance?

Readiness- If you want to keep this on every hunter, then I suggest giving them a debuff, like mages after iceblock. Using Deterance twice or Beastial Wrath twice or Rapid fire twice, is just a tad over the top. That way, their bust can easily outlast any defensive cooldown people have. There just little room to actually survive it.

Druid set bonus- To avoid making Feline Swiftness useless, I were thinking of changing the druid movement speed from set bonus to something else, not sure what. But druids are currently able to reach 200% movement speed in stag, and even more in cat with dash and stampeding roar, allowing them to outrun every other class in the game as a flag carrier.

Frost mage mastery- I were considering removing that mastery completly. Perhaps replace it with increased damage by their pet, like the beastmaster.

Deep Freeze- Personally I belive giving Shatter and Deep freeze to every mage is just over doing it. Without having to measure or think alot about it, I can easily calculate that the firemage, who is relying on crits for high damage, will very fast become a high damage dealer and big problem in pvp.

Gag order- I personally think heroic throw should keep gag order as passive and not a glyph, however, I do not belive pummel should silence at all. We should be thinking of when to silence and when to interrupt, allowing healers to fake cast on us aswell.

Blood Fear- Now, I happen to belive this should be removed completly, but if that is declined, the CD on it should defenetly be higher or make it "back fire" a little bit, so you think of when to use it and do not use it with a mind like "uh, what ever, only makes fear better". It's an instant 8 sec CC that is a 100% unavoidable, with only 10sec CD.

And just a notice to people. How you all complain about warrior damage. With all cooldowns used, a warrior is doing some serious damage, but if you compare with a frost DK played well. My friend have played frost since Wrath, with every cooldown he got Obliterate is doing over 100k aswell, without cooldowns, my little warrior can't even keep up to the damage he layes for the day equal to the healing absorbtion he can make. Overall, if you think about what class makes the most without any cooldowns at all, I do not think warriors are that scary.

And last, I personally belive the passive 40% resilience shouldn't be there. I understand where you come from, "allowing everyone to enjoy every aspect of the game". But rewards for nothing shouldn't be allowed. A pve'er can still collect pvp gear through Valor and Justice points, so they're never 100% excluded from pvp'ing equal to everyone else. But giving determined pvp'ers only 15% more resilience is just not fair in my oppinion. They've chosen that path and should have an edge vs those who aren't equally into it.

That was my ideas. =)
Edited by Ninö on 15/10/2012 14:12 BST
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Warrior
10320
Go answer i shattered your "argument".
Why do people always act like they're afk in arena and cant los interrupt ground trinket stun reflect etc etc anything??


U shattered my argument? Are you serious?

So ur point is -> any class can crit for over 150k if u can interupt or LoS it.
Chaos bolt crits for 170 k on full geared targets.
But it's no issue, u can always interupt or CC it. LOL.
Aslong u can avoid it in some way classes can hit a person's half health. Sure.
That's the most stupid thing i ever heard.

U just keep proving how dumb you are by posting these rediculous comments.
I won't respond on ur next stupid answer.


I had to reply on this. I am sick of hunters, warlocks or any other person justifying the imbalanced damage they can do by arguments like this.

To start off with, I do NOT support or justify the damage I can do with my cooldowns popped. However, without them, I belive my damage is preaty balanced, considering taste for blood is a joke, takes way to long to stack and normaly wores out before you ever stack it to more than 2.

However. Let me give you a scenario, with a frost mage and a warlock, seems like a decent 2v2 team (I KNOW 2v2 IS NOT BALANCED, it's a freaking eksample, to cut me some slag here)
However.. You go in, let's say... I play with a... Paladin?

So.. We run in, he get's feared, since there's currently no stress, he won't trinket it. So, I get a frost nova from the pet, with a deep freeze ( NO, it can't be spell reflected, deep freeze it out of global CD, and if I have to swap weapons first, to then spell reflect, I won't make it. I'd like to see who is fast enough, only mass reflect can make it, but I aint using it). So they start to burst me, he trinkets to save me, then get's polyed, he then pop bubble, instant heal + guardian, I ofc used trink on Deep freeze, I pop shield wall.. So, we survived it. He later in the game without trinket or bobble get's polyed, I get feared. I can use zerker to get out of that, with a 30sec CD. Guess what boys and girls. Blood fear only got 10sec, and since he just used it, it will only last for 4sec on the next. With me being Melee, I do NOT LoS alot, since I have to be on my target. Next fear, I can't stop, with my paladin getting an instant silence from the mage, (which is also 4 sec), that lock got.. Oh wait. PLENTY of time for that chaos bolt and right now, none of us can do a god damn thing about it. THAT is why, the damage is just NOT okay.
Reply Quote
90 Undead Rogue
6745
The current season is the biggest joke ever done from Blizzard. They may say that they are reading our comments but they should play at the game. How can you explain that joke seriously ? how is it possible to do that even without a beta... i really don't understand.

Is it hard to see that ? only Beastmaster / Warriors Arms in Arena. One macro button.

gg blizzard ;-)
Reply Quote
90 Orc Warrior
6845
Man, I don't want to get back like the times in cata when warriors were nerfed for almost the whole expansion.
Reply Quote
90 Undead Warlock
0
Ummm. All these Things going on about warlocks.
first these 160k crits about chaos bolts. Its "Normal".
why? Just simply because. I need Spam 5-10 incinerates or Fel Flames for it. Which Ofcouse makes me Go Oom. Okay that being said.
Then comes the Tough part. I have to bloody get the cast off.. Its a 2-2.9 second cast. Which as People said above can be Los'd Interrupted With the Gazillion amount of cc's around and Not to Mention the Defensive Cd's.
Okay that being said. Then I need To Pop my Trinket as well as Dark soul at the same time to cast a Chaos Bolt To do THE 160k damage. And ye a treat for mages they can spell steal it. kay. So Hence my point is that to get off that 160k Damage. we warlocks have to do a lot, Think when we have to time It. and Land one in the best chance. which is a 150k+ crit.
And Ofcourse You can make him waste his ember on ember tap like thats so hard to do now.
The Funny part is I dont see a why a Popcd's->charge->lolroar has any problems with a mechanic like this. Just funny. :)
And yeah I dont do pvp much. just for the fun of it. Wouldn have bothered commenting on this If only it wasn a warrior who qq'd about a 160k crit.

Edit :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-436SM4Rkxw
Definitely a 160k chaos Bolt.
Cheers
Edited by Wreckquiém on 15/10/2012 21:08 BST
Reply Quote
90 Dwarf Warrior
8315
Ummm. All these Things going on about warlocks.
first these 160k crits about chaos bolts. Its "Normal".
why? Just simply because. I need Spam 5-10 incinerates or Fel Flames for it. Which Ofcouse makes me Go Oom. Okay that being said.
Then comes the Tough part. I have to bloody get the cast off.. Its a 2-2.9 second cast. Which as People said above can be Los'd Interrupted With the Gazillion amount of cc's around and Not to Mention the Defensive Cd's.
Okay that being said. Then I need To Pop my Trinket as well as Dark soul at the same time to cast a Chaos Bolt To do THE 160k damage. And ye a treat for mages they can spell steal it. kay. So Hence my point is that to get off that 160k Damage. we warlocks have to do a lot, Think when we have to time It. and Land one in the best chance. which is a 150k+ crit.
And Ofcourse You can make him waste his ember on ember tap like thats so hard to do now.
The Funny part is I dont see a why a Popcd's->charge->lolroar has any problems with a mechanic like this. Just funny. :)
And yeah I dont do pvp much. just for the fun of it. Wouldn have bothered commenting on this If only it wasn a warrior who qq'd about a 160k crit.


Before u post in a thread. Make sure u read the whole thread. I'll show u why right here.

Posted by Viraga
#1 Chaos bolt: It's on a 2.9 second cast unless you reforge into haste, can easily be LoS'ed when you watch out for it, can easily be interrupted, reflected or simply grounded. When put under pressure as destruction spec you're forced to use your hard-earned embers for selfhealing so no chaos bolts, ever.

It doesn't matter howmuch casttime it is . 160 k on full geared players is too much.

I can be disarmed, stunned, cycloned , etc also when i'm popping everything i have
-> That doesn't mean i can global people when i'm not CCed.
What a stupid argument.

13/10/2012 11:15Posted by Viraga
#2 Healing has to be bursty because of the amount of damage and cc, leave it the way it is.

That's the whole point . Everyone's burst should be lowered . So u don't need these rediculous amount of healing spells.

-------

My view about Warriors.

- Skull banner and Recklessness shouldn't be stackable. This is the stack that gives us the high burst . It's not Reck + Avatar.

-Our mobility is finally fixed. The new glyph of Heroic Leap really helps out and gives us the ability to stand a chance against certain casters without a healer.

-Our base damage is in my opinion not too high. I'd say it's pretty much balanced our base damage.

-Taste of Blood : Please remove Taste for Blood. It's so RNG and it doesn't fit with the playstyle of warriors.
Alot of people who are crying about youtube video's of warriors -> That's the one in a lifetime TFB 5 stack. Don't go crazy on it, it rarely ever happens in Arenaplay.
That is also the reason this should be changed into something else in my opinion.
Either make it pop more often and lower the damage buff. Or just remove it.

-Spellreflects : I don't see any problem with having mass spellreflect . I tested it out and it's pretty nice against certain comps.

-Safeguard : Mostly Safeguard talent is alot more usefull in Arena.
I think safeguard is a good thing to enhance our mobility while not making it too noobfriendly.
U can do alot with Safeguard. Intervene party 1-2 to prevent high burst . Intervening ur mocking banner, Intervening traps and so on.
This talent is one of the best improvements of the warrior class. (While not making it too EZ)

-Second wind : I don't see this as an overpowered talent. We really need this passive heal or some kind of selfhealing or we die way too easily.
People who can't outdamage second wind... Try watching some movies of your class. Cause every class can easily outdamage Second Wind talent. Even when glyphed.

-Avatar : Well , i'm not pretty sure about this talent. The damage increase isn't the problem. But the 20 sec freedom is a bit too much maybe.
I think changing it to -> 20 seconds 20% dmg increase - 10 seconds freedom will fix alot of QQ on your forums (haha).


And one more thing to add. I don't use oneshotmacro's. Only noobs do.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Warrior
0
15/10/2012 21:30Posted by Signar
I don't use oneshotmacro's. Only noobs do.

I prefer to not call it a oneshot-macro because I hate the word, but I have a macro I use from time to time when I need all my damage cooldowns at once. Am I really a noob? :(
Reply Quote
90 Undead Mage
10150
Hey.. I just found out that second wind do need a nerf. Just met 2 prot pallys in 2v2.. Killed one.. Yep trust me... I killed the one with the lowest health - Nerd scream.

Try on the one with 430k health, Imposible to push 20k dps on him.. GG
Reply Quote
90 Dwarf Warrior
8315
15/10/2012 21:48Posted by Ayano
I prefer to not call it a oneshot-macro because I hate the word, but I have a macro I use from time to time when I need all my damage cooldowns at once. Am I really a noob? :(


The oneshotmacro is with dragons roar. If u use dragons roar , it's pretty nab yes.
Reply Quote
90 Human Priest
9650
Ok so ive just found out you have removed the ability to cast void shift on Shadowfiends and psyfiends....now due to the high output of dps from all melee classes its made my arena life pretty much over until its fixed, i was holding my own against FDk+FDk BM+FDk Warrior+FDk teams with abit of a struggle and a careful use of my other abilities aswell as this.

My biggest problem with this as there was no anouncement and up until 15 mins ago it was working fine but then after loseing 4 games on the bounce i noticed something was different and saw that the void shift wasnt working.

Insted of removing it completely why not just reduce it to 50% heals because the way things are at the moment that was the only thing keeping me alive in pvp.

Not because im a fool and cant play my class but when u have warriors immune to fear/roots and DK AMS and pala FoM it makes my cc pretty useless unless i can gain alittle distance or survive the first burst from them which Voidshift+Shadowfiend gave me a cushion to not be 1 shotted.......also unlike the paladins it could be stopped by silenceing/LoS the fiend from me and other was so it was not a garenteed heal.

Im enjoying PvP this season and its the first season ive acctually tried for rating and although the whole rating system seems abit odd to me ive been enjoying it ( currently playing a SP+Rpala sitting on 1.45k rating ) and although i agree that alot needs to be done in regards to the burst damage of BM FDk and the self healing of warriors ( my voidshift has a 7min cd your 2nd wind is like a constant heal >.<) insted of coming out and moaning and posting i was happy to keep my head down and play my class and work out ways i could beat them, Unfortunately the Hotfix on this one spell has nullified our survivability in this current state of affairs.............
Reply Quote
90 Undead Priest
7695
Just saying that this is the worst season i ever met so far. And been here since around season 7. Not even need to explain why. for example wtf, ele shaman just have got nerfs.. even that they been the worst caster for the whole mop. And ele is getting globalled by everything.
Edited by Coif on 05/12/2012 09:34 GMT
Reply Quote
18 Troll Hunter
10735
Well, since you necroed this thread, let's see what they did with all the feedback we gave two months ago.

Quoting my post #9 on the first page:

My biggest gripes:

#1 Not resetting MMR. This helps MMR abusers from the previous season to camp their rating. The camping forces the rest of the ladder down. This is not fun.

#2 Insane damage from warriors and BM hunters. Warriors one-shot people. BM hunters nearly one-shot people, and they can do this every minute. Health pools in arenas jump up and down like crazy. This is not fun.

So, #1, MMR is still not reset. They kind of said on a third-party site that they didn't reset it because they have big plans to reinvigorate the brackets and prevent rating camping, but they never described this plan clearly. Right now, it seems that their big plan consists of being able to upgrade gear for conquest points, which is simply laughable, both because this neither prevents rating camping, and also because it creates issues that are at least as bad as rating camping.

On to #2, they did fix BM hunters, but they didn't fix warriors, AND, as it turned out, the list was missing warlocks, who can one-shot people as well, and maybe mages, AND they gave everyone more PVP power without giving more PVP resilience making one-shots significantly more often than before.

Nice progress... Can anyone honestly say that PVP got better since the beginning of the season? Because I don't. Even the "it will get better because it couldn't be worse" point that was popular back then doesn't seem to work.
Edited by Zakkar on 05/12/2012 09:49 GMT
Reply Quote
Community
05/12/2012 09:47Posted by Zakkar
So, #1, MMR is still not reset.
Ghostcrawler already mentioned on his Twitter account back when this was a major topic of discussion that resetting the MMR of players creates a large sum of unbalanced matches until the ratings return to their original values. So the resetting of MMR actually creates a few weeks of pain with very little gain, given that most players will end up at approximately the same MMR that they were before the reset. You can see his tweet about this, here: https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status/257181281304072194

We also wanted to implement with patch 5.1 but it was unfortunately delayed to a later date, a new system that is designed to prevent players from camping high ratings as well. This should alleviate some concerns with players reaching high ratings through their MMR and then camping those ratings, they will end up losing their ranking because those who continue to play and perform well in their matches should progress past them. You can read more on this system in the PvP blog here: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/blog/6415071

05/12/2012 09:47Posted by Zakkar
On to #2, they did fix BM hunters, but they didn't fix warriors, AND, as it turned out, the list was missing warlocks, who can one-shot people as well, and maybe mages
We made changes to the Warrior class by lowering the maximum stacks of Taste for Blood to three in PvP. We also recently hotfixed Demonology Warlocks, lowering the demonic fury cost and damage of Chaos Wave by 33%. Mages also received several changes in patch 5.1, they are too numerous to mention here so I recommend checking the patch notes out: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/blog/6617095

05/12/2012 09:47Posted by Zakkar
AND they gave everyone more PVP power without giving more PVP resilience making one-shots significantly more often than before.
We are also keeping an eye on the increase in damage that occurred due to heightened PvP power. It is possible that we will up base resilience or do something similar to compensate for this change, but we feel that more time is required to observe the effects of this change in order to make a decision on the matter.

05/12/2012 09:47Posted by Zakkar
Nice progress... Can anyone honestly say that PVP got better since the beginning of the season? Because I don't.
We know that PvP will never be a perfect picture of balance where both teams in every match up will walk into the arena, or even a rated battleground with a 50% chance of winning or losing. We do feel that it is achievable to a point where players can have fun and feel that a match was fair and they understand why and where in the fight they lost. We are not blinded by rose-tinted glasses mind you, we know that we are not at this point yet in Mists of Pandaria and there is still some work to go until we reach that level of balance.

To achieve this is very hard to do, especially when you remember that the game is constantly evolving and new classes, abilities and mechanics are being created. This is not us trying to make excuses mind you, it's hard, but we want to and owe it to you as the players to try our best to get this right.
Edited by Nakatoir on 06/12/2012 07:44 GMT
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Druid
10835
Buff monk survival ! give passive dmg reduction or healing taken.
Edited by Kapone on 05/12/2012 16:06 GMT
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
13100
05/12/2012 16:02Posted by Nakatoir
We have also implemented, with patch 5.1, a new system that is designed to prevent players from camping high ratings as well.


Wasn't that delayed for the future for some reason or another?
Reply Quote
90 Human Death Knight
16995
We have also implemented, with patch 5.1, a new system that is designed to prevent players from camping high ratings as well.


Wasn't that delayed for the future for some reason or another?


it was for 100% they said they weren't comfortable yet with the new system working.
and just look at cyclone ladder rank 1 - with a new system favouring a lot of games they would be far more ahaed.

We made changes to the Warrior class by lowering the maximum stacks of Taste for Blood to three in PvP. We also recently hotfixed Demonology Warlocks, lowering the demonic fury cost and damage of Chaos Wave by 33%. Mages also received several changes in patch 5.1, they are too numerous to mention here so I recommend checking the patch notes out: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/blog/6617095


with pvp power + weapon upgrades and warrior scalling there aint much difference between a 5 stack Tfb before patch and a 3er after the patch. Mages recieved changes in their survival/utility so they cant spam spellsteal but nothing changed to their burst it doesnt matter if DF is 5 or 4 secs >_> frostbomb+fireblast glyph is their burst - either the hardcore nerf to the glyph or reduce/change frostbomb damage to like a dot...both wont happen for sure ^^

also LOL@ Blizz for thinking DK defense is fine or the 90er talents are....allways good for a laugh.
Edited by Shígure on 05/12/2012 16:32 GMT
Reply Quote
7 Goblin Shaman
0
Mages and warriors are still the same as they were. Im glad you fixed dem scary warlocks tho.

Keep up the good work.
Reply Quote
You all arguing the 150k+ Chaos Bolt but not 2+ times instant Pyros that can hit 100k+ while in in deep.Its like Ken using his super haduken.While it is really fun to do in arenas, it is really not good for the other player.

Most classes have ultra big bursts and average normal damage which may be the problem.I know some specs have exceptions like maybe Shadow priest that does not have a big burst cd that i know and can do big damage with 3 orbs in any time or a frost mage can kill you without any 2+ min cd used, but if the intention in MoP was giving players huge burst and funny sustainable damage and it is at this point right now.PvP is balanced in 3v3 mostly and that gives a ramp up burst class more survaibility with his friends to cover him up, but game is not homoganised per class (1 million in each class) so if there is a 1 shot class, then everyone is going to play that and ruin the whole experience that does not wants to play those classes or specs.Look at the most played classes.Do any of you really believe all that warriors or mages or resto shamans plays their classes/specs just because they like the classes/specs?

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/pvp/

The burst mechanics should be lowered a bit more and sustainable damage should increase a bit more for like a 3 min rotation (cause the lost damage from a 3 min cd can be divided to the time when burst cd is on cd to make pve balanced like it was before).Then we can have a little more fun in arenas again.I know developers have the statistics in arenas, where in cata a 3v3 game ends in average 4 min (for example) and now 1.5 min (i donno).That can show game is more around burst cds and that is ruining the specs that has ramp up bursts with no defensive ability to survive that 1 shot bursts.

So my idea is class and spec tweaking may resolve some problems, fixing the game problems will solve lots of problems without trying to tweak the numbers again for pve.

The homogenization should happen like this:X class with X' spec is a spell killer but will have a hard time with melees.Y class with Y' spec will do good with both melee and spell casters but will have nearly no cc.Z class with Z' spec can CC forever with less damage to melee and casters.You see how it would be hard to do?Rather than this, just change some general mechanics imo.
Edited by Zengin on 05/12/2012 18:37 GMT
Reply Quote
90 Human Death Knight
9290
05/12/2012 16:02Posted by Nakatoir
To achieve this is very hard to do, especially when you remember that the game is constantly evolving and new classes, abilities and mechanics are being created. This is not us trying to make excuses mind you, it's hard, but we want to and owe it to you as the players to try our best to get this right.

You might want to rephrase that for people who actually understand how the cogs turn in the background. Achieving the sort of balance Blizzard and its player base expect is not very hard, it's somewhat time consuming, and as a company of Blizzard's magnitude this can be achieved FAR faster then it currently is.

The main issue is, for the most part PVP's development procedure is the same as PVE's, this in my eyes as a programmer and a fairly high rated PVPer is not for the better.

A solution to this problem would be having a system where hotfixing PVP mechanics in a timely fashion is a safe way of developing, which apparently isn't the case right now. Another great solution which i agree with was posted by Mírion here: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6083128299
Edited by Necrøtic on 05/12/2012 19:15 GMT
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]