cc durations need to be brought down to something like 6,3,1.5 seconds + add a hidden dr that if you lost the control of your character for more than 12 seconds in the past 15 seconds you become immune to it for 10 seconds.
Edited by Necrøtic on 05/12/12 19:39 (GMT)
Aside from the numbers this is an extremely good idea, and would solve a lot of imbalance and frustration in bgs.
In before a GM tells people implementing such system would be very hard, this is roughly all the code it takes to implement.
Np Blizz, anytime.
If any of you know Reinhart, he is a very good unholy death knight and a top youtuber. He made this survey so YOU, the player, can submit you own opinion on the current PvP situation. Once he gets to 50k-100k submits he'll send this PETITION to the developers.
So let's help him!
Link - http://freeonlinesurveys.com/s.asp?sid=aeeekyrcsdlvgut163219 -> Please complete it and try not to be biased. Cheers!
While I agree with the position I do feel that Death Knights above all other classes have evolved the least. Why is that? We're easily the squishiest class in the game and I don't feel that the high damage output possible as Frost Death Knight justifies us being so squishy. As for Unholy; same survivability as Frost but less burst which in the PvP climate of today means 9 times out of 10 its not viable in arena.
There have been plenty threads on the Death Knight class forum detailing problems with possible solutions. I implore the Dev team to look at these and bring the Death Knight back up to speed.
73 Orc Hunter
Written by Ayume from US-Tichondrius, on the AJ-rogue forums:
I was just out in the krasarang wilds, and this fierce wild flamingo jumped me. Let me preface this by saying, it didn’t stand a chance; to put it in perspective, this flamingo had a better chance of acquiring a spaceship and flying to the Alpha Centauri solar system. Anyways, I proceeded to one shot this bird, reminiscent of seasons past when Kurum would resummon 4-5 monkeys only to have them die instantly. After looting this retarded bird, I spot out of the corner of my eye a seasoned level 87 Orc warrior. So feeling pretty good after that flamingo win, I decide to take on a real challenger. I stealth over and open with my coveted cheap-shot ability. Once he stabilizes at 30%, he decides to use his AoE kidneyshot ability, there was no cheating this death. A few 200k’s later; I’m at the graveyard wondering where I went wrong in life.
Sums up the rogues don't you think.
*Then the rogue spots a trinketless healer and puts him in a stunlock so long its timed by calender months followed by a garrote, at which point the healer dies* The End.
Greetings fellow forumers, and hopefully blues who will read this and pass it on to their developers.
I think all CC should be deliberate. My main CC's are Sap and Blind. I have to be very close to my targets to do them, they only CC 1 person, and blind is on a major cooldown and sap can hardly ever be used.
but instant PoM sheeps, instead AoE fears that dont even need anyone to be targetted to fear the entire team for a combined 24 seconds. And is on such a short cooldown it can nearly DR itself. Frost nova's being on such short CD and can render a melee completely useless for 8 seconds, then can be repeated again at random every few seconds.
i think CC's should have to be at close range, you should have to have a target for it, and it shoulkd only affect 1 person.
+ all CC's should be based on blind. Break on 1 damage. RoF, multiple fears, shockwave hitting for 85 k (why doesn't my kidneyshot crit for 85k?)
being able to dismount without having to target anybody and CCing the entire team for 8 seconds is just ludicrous.
Ok, so here is my feedback:
Removing critical strike chance from the game could fix everything. Why should someone win because they got lucky crits more then you did. Abilities should always hit for the same amount based on your gear, and the targets gear + whether or not you're buffed or using trinket/cd's.
getting 6 crits in a row from a mage is BS, when on average i get 1 crit every 8 hits.
Meaning a mages Icelance crits about 60% more then my eviscerate, it's instant, costs no mana and hits harder then my evisc.
if eviscerate was like icelance, i'd be able to kill people alone too. meaning no energy costs, spammable and critted 80% of the time.
The game cant be balanced on a 1v1 basis, ideally it should but it never will be. Seeing as 3v3 and 5v5 are the only real ways of trying to gauge balance, I honestly think Blizzard should question players in the top 20 positions of the 3v3 or 5v5 ladders across multiple Battlegroups. These players are still coping with the changes and have a better view of class performance at the top end of pvp gameplay.
Of the top 10 teams in my BG (Cyclone EU) 3v3 ladder; 7 contain warriors, 8 contain resto shamans. There are a couple of SPs, Ferals and mages and 1 or 2 rogues, DKs and paladins (ret and holy). Now this tells me that Warriors are still awesome, but also Resto Shams have something that makes them far more viable in pvp than any other healing class. For the sake of variety, developers should look into this and find out why no other healing class gets a look in.
From my point of view as a mage??
Too much CC?? I think there are too many CCs right now. Not sure how to fix it, but I will say that i agree with the earlier post. Nearly every class has a duplicate spell or similar to someone elses class. EG: Paladins can now sprint. I think some of the mechanics that made each class unique are slowly disappearing.
Instant CCs: Do non mages realise that to instant RoF someone, we actually burn POM?? Thats a 1.5 min CD used there as well as my 45 sec RoF.
Do non locks realise that Blood Fear uses up 10% of the warlocks max health?? If the lock is pushed hard enough he cant afford to lose 10%
These spells come with a penalty. Something like the ferals having a 20% of gaining an instant Cyclone from a finishing move are way more annoying
Burst: Mages can still do massive burst. Warriors have both burst and quite high sustained damage. DKs can still hit like trains despite the QQ in here. Warlocks have to work very hard for Chaos Bolts and I dont begrudge them their burst. Standing still for over 2 seconds as the sword wielding orc charges towards you isnt easy either. Hunters do need a dmg nerf including their pets if they are to be brought in line with others.
Heals: Makes sense to me that if people can 50% someone in one global then the heals should be able to compensate. Either all our numbers go down or none do.
Crit rating: Icelance example is a poor one. Mages dont spam icelance as it does 4-5k dmg. If you arent frozen it doesnt hurt. FoF procs are the only random factor here (12% chance from a frostbolt). No mage will hit you with 6 critting ice lances in quick succession, 1 crit breaks a freeze.
Edited by Angelias on 06/12/12 04:27 (GMT)
I agree completely with everyting Tulkkas has said here: -
This was a fantastic post!
Ok, so here is my feedback:MOP Arena impression
#1. Last minute decisions with no explanations - No MMR reset, No entry level PvP weaponsSolution: Reset MMR next season and dont change your mind 2 minutes before release. Patch in honor pvp weapons.
#2. Symbiosis working in arena ! (thank you as a holy paladin for "Rebirth" really useful while mages gets Healing Touch or Priest Cyclone, pvp balance at its finest...)Solution: Disable Symbiosis for arena
#3. OP Classes + Globaling Warriors = 3 man PvE boss with huge damage on cooldowns, super mobility, super control and extreme fully automatic selfhealing BM hunters - no comments really, see feedback above Mage - frost bomb combo hitting full pvp geared ppl in deep freeze for 120kWarLock - 140k Chaos Bolts on full pvp geared pplDue to insane damage (even when wearing full Dreadful) ppl are dying in few seconds to double or triple dps FOTM compsSolution: Its so broken that I start to thing its beyond repair, but you have very talented developers so I hope they will find some...
#4. Too much cooldowns and control - when do you plan to stop adding new buttons to press? I mean I like new things but this now feels more like playing piano and super fast cause the healing and damage is so bursty. Everyone now got everything - just crazy.Solution: Remove some control and cooldowns from most problematic specs and decide to give them more dmg or more control not both at the same time. Remove, combine some cooldowns and/or not allow people to unload all at one time!
#5. Selfhealing - why are there even healers in pvp? Everyone now got so potent defensive and selfhealing abilities that doubbe or triple dps classes are doing better then those with healers. You need 2 dps to unload burst to take down warrior, ret healing OP, shadow priest healing OP, balance druid same...Solution: Reduce it and remove some completely so that healers are actually needed.
My impression:New Expansion and new Season is showing how serious Blizzard takes balance in PvP and how "high" on a priority list it is for the release. I think this is most imbalanced start I have ever seen.Absolutely no reason to play Arena until a patch comes. Really sad to see what you released and cant understand how this could pass any internal or open beta testing.
Final suggestion : Please admit finally that you are unable to balance this game for PvE and PvP with the same game systems. Separate it and balance separately so that its fair and square - skill based pvp experience for both types of your customers.
18 Troll Hunter
Edited by Zakkar on 06/12/12 06:54 (GMT)
Thanks for the reply, Nakatoir, but:
We have also implemented, with patch 5.1, a new system that is designed to prevent players from camping high ratings as well. This should alleviate some concerns with players reaching high ratings through their MMR and then camping those ratings, they will end up losing their ranking because those who continue to play and perform well in their matches should progress past them. You can read more on this system in the PvP blog here: ...
Where is this in 5.1??? I don't see it. Moreover, there's been ample feedback for this blog and, putting it mildly, unless there's some important detail about the above that is undisclosed in the blog, it does not look like this system will actually fix MMR camping. Read the threads for lots of analysis and thoughts, it is completely unclear *how* the above, as described in the blog, would stop rating campers.
So, you mention GC's point that resetting MMR achieves very little but causes some temporary pain for low-rated players. This point is completely irrelevant in the absence of an alternative solution that prevents people from camping ratings. Right now the system described on the blog you linked has not been implemented yet, so there. I stand that you failed on the #1: reset MMR. You didn't reset MMR, you didn't implement an alternative yet, and it is totally unclear whether your alternative - when you come around to implementing it - will help fight rating camping in the way resetting MMR did, however imperfect resetting MMR is.
We made changes to the Warrior class by lowering the maximum stacks of Taste for Blood to three in PvP. We also recently hotfixed Demonology Warlocks, lowering the demonic fury cost and damage of Chaos Wave by 33%. Mages also received several changes in patch 5.1, they are too numerous to mention here so I recommend checking the patch notes out: ...
Yes, you did several things, but that wasn't nearly enough to solve the issues above. This isn't helped by the fact that you did several other things which made burst worse (as was mentioned, you, for example, increased PVP power on weapons). The only burst that was fixed is BM's.
Warriors still one-shot. Why? Because they can stack cooldowns! Many people suggested that you fix warriors by reducing their ability to stack cooldowns, if you did that, you'd fix the problem. But you didn't do that, you reduced 5 stacks of TfB to 3 stacks, then added PVP power, so obviously we are still having this problem. The fix to demo warlocks, by the way, is welcome, but it's *destro* warlocks that one-shot. :-) You didn't do much about them. So, I stand that you failed on #2: too much burst, as well. You didn't fix it. It can be argued that you made things worse.
And, the worst problem is, when you are saying something like "we are keeping an eye on the increase in damage that occurred due to heightened PvP power", I get that. But, while I honestly believe that you are "keeping an eye" on these things, it is also pretty clear to me that this "keeping an eye" will take weeks if not months, and that you will only actually fix these things after they do huge amounts of damage to the ladder already. And by the time you fix these things, you will introduce a couple new idiotic issues (the increase of PVP power on weapons is a prime example of exactly that) which will break PVP for the next few months.
You should patch PVP issues much faster. The way it goes now, PVP is just constantly broken. Test more and for god's sake, *listen* to the feedback that we give you! *Talk* to us. Like, you know, don't just tell us that you are going to implement this grand idea that will supposedly fix everything (upgrades to conquest gear, arrrrgh, talk about misguided waste of time), but actually talk to us about that idea first, ask for our opinion, process the answers, then perhaps adjust your plans. We all are reasonable people here, really. We want the game to be good, same as yourself. Stop this madness where you code reactively and just do the first thing you got into your mind that seems that it might work because you don't have the time to talk and test. You are making it worse. Tell GC to stop tweeting and bring him here.
Thanks for your time.
Too much water and no straight answer.
Again: it's not about perfection. It's about: you did not solved the problem that exists from the very beginning of the MoP. 5.1 changed nothing in general cuz 3 TfB still does 200+k damage through 60% resilence, destro locks still able to one-shot target and godmode hunters were just replaced with mages.
Also, you always eager to point that @immune@ mechanic is no any good and still preserves tremor totem and berserk.
Rogue and priests are still outsiders in PvP. Why speak about perfection if you still did nit fixed the clear faults?
Warriors are really strong at the moment. They have some gap closer, stuns, defensive cds, a fear, high selfheal (10-12k per second) and dmg like !@#$.
Let's talk about enhancement shamans (just a example).
- they have no gap closer
- you have to use every ms-procc for healing but lightning bolt is in the "rotation" (warriors have to do nothing for the 10-12k heals every secound)
- 4-5 abilities of the warrior are doing 40-80k dmg (tell me which abilities of enh. shamans hit so hard... maybe stormstrike)
If we use all of our cds (wolves, fire ele,...) we are not able to own a warrior or a dk or do the dmg they will do.
I know 1vs1 can't be balanced, but the differences of some classes are really large.
Don't tell me that Vanguards ehn. Shaman and some others has a 2,2k rating in arena. These are exceptions. And in BGs the shaman (elemental, enhancement) is a freekill.
This isn't a mimimi-post but take a look at shamans and rouges at the moment.
(I'm from Germany, so the english isn't perfect :) )
It was, yes. This was an unfortunate error on my part when rephrasing that particular paragraph. My apologies for any confusion, I have now corrected the mistake.
Edited by Scarze on 06/12/12 07:59 (GMT)
@ Kazuya, idd a few classes have it all atm great dmg, survival, mobility etc. while others are pretty balanced but suffer from the major gap there is between them.
It's not interesting atm to play one of the underdog classes (except you're looking for a hard challenge or you love to die).
If you enter a bg, you can notice which speccs and classes are meant.
And I think that's the job of blizzard, making these classes interesting to play (not to nerf some, just to push the "underdogs" with a defensive or mobility cooldown or somethin else and not with 10% more dmg)
Atm bgs looks like this (exaggerated):
3x Death Knight
2x Heal (Druid, Shaman, Pala - Diszi Priests are rare)
... and maybe 1 Moonkin, Rogue or DPS-Shaman
Edited by Nightwing on 06/12/12 09:16 (GMT)
I'm always having such a laugh when u see ppl with no actual pvp experience comment on pvp related fixes... Kazuya u clearly don't know what your talking about.
1: In RBG shamans are far from bad Elemental shaman is actually one of the best classes for that.
2: The game is balanced around the rbgs and arena (3s) not about normal bgs.
So in normal bgs u will always see the fotm rerollers. So yes there's a lot of warriors they
where to strong at the start of this exp still strong now but with all the nerfs there not
unbalanced no more. Same goes for hunters and locks. Only 2 classes that still need nerfing are mage ( burst dmg together with to much cc) and hpally ( to much instant cc for a healer )
3: U said (- 4-5 abilities of the warrior are doing 40-80k dmg (tell me which abilities of enh.
shamans hit so hard... maybe stormstrike) Please tell me which abilities that are then?
cause i would like to use them. I'm a warrior with 55% pvp power and t-2 weap and no
way in hell without cd stacking ( and yes thats a once in a 5 min thing ) i can get any spell
up to those numbers exept execute.
Just curious mate, what are your expierence in arenas?
I love you btw can i be your BFF?