Captcha to report and automagically disconnect botters

90 Tauren Death Knight
5665
Please consider implementing a CAPTCHA into the game Blizzard. An example would be: 3 players report someone they believe to be a bot. The bot would recieve a picture of a tauren in their screen (or a wall of text), and has to answer for the example the question: Which creature do you see in the picture. The challenged client would then have to answer the question within for example 2 minutes. If no answer is given, they are disconneted from the server and have to reconnect.

They should also include a timelimit for how often a player have to answer a CAPTCHA, to stop others from abusing the functionality. Ie, if a player has answered a CAPTCHA the last 20 minutes, they will not be challenged within that time. I guess you should also have a few tries (maybe 3?) if you fail the challenge, so people writing the wrong answer would not be disconneted immediately.

Do other players think this would work? :)
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90 Tauren Druid
5650
CAPTCHA-breaking costs approx $1 per thousand. Botters are already paying for the game, bot, computer and electricity. Another couple of dollars a year is not going to stop them.

Alternatively, you can crowd-source it and break them for free.
Edited by Amadruid on 26/10/2012 10:18 BST
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85 Human Paladin
7155
Please, so I enter my password, enter my auth code, start the game and get a captcha of a badly written word on screen. So I type it. It's wrong and I get kicked out?

Nah, botters are annoying. They're really annoying in fact. But, this isn't the solution.

Blizztivision saved some money letting go of staff they "didn't need"... Time to hire some new staff with the savings they made to actively watch the game for botters, exploters, other rule breaking (see trade chat)..

I remember during BC that often trade chat would get a bit "too" rowdy, and blue text would just appear to control the situation. Anyone remember seeing that happen lately.. Anyone at all?

Do something useful with our money.
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90 Human Paladin
0
I already find LUA errors annoying.
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Community
26/10/2012 10:24Posted by Andrai
Time to hire some new staff with the savings they made to actively watch the game for botters, exploters, other rule breaking (see trade chat)..


If you think of how many realms there are, then consider how many people you'd need per realm, we are talking literally hundreds, if not thousands of staff. Just to sit and observe the game, not actually helping with the large selection of other issues that Game Masters deal with. Do you really think that's a good investment?
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90 Human Paladin
0
If you think of how many realms there are, then consider how many people you'd need per realm, we are talking literally hundreds, if not thousands of staff. Just to sit and observe the game, not actually helping with the large selection of other issues that Game Masters deal with. Do you really think that's a good investment?


Well, I can see how it would be problematic to monitor each realm 24/7, but since this thread is about botters, I believe that having a dedicated team, lets call them "The A-Bot Team", of which only takes care of the reports of bots, nothing else, who has the required experience and permissions to perma-ban botters, and who could jump in a BG to check for botters when they get a break from the reports, would be a good investment.

Actually, anything that clean out botters and cheaters is a good investment, especially if we, as the average player, will see a decline in these, because as of right now, I don't see any.
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90 Human Monk
12230
26/10/2012 10:35Posted by Takralus
not actually helping with the large selection of other issues that Game Masters deal with. Do you really think that's a good investment?


This was a little bit aggressive and ignorant, and by the by, what do you mean by "investment"

If you mean investment to see capital gain then no it's an awful investment,

If you mean investment to see increased levels of customer satisfaction, ageneral reduction of "Game master issues", and a greater percentage of repeat business with loyal clientelle then it's a VERY GOOD INVESTMENT.

Also, please don't patronise us

talking literally hundreds, if not thousands of staff


It would not take this many staff to police channels and actively partake in other GM duties, we already see a huge decrease in active involvement and an increase in automated management over the years.

There is technology capable of collating all the chat logs in realtime and actively scanning them for keywords/chains and highlighting these to an exploit management team, wether it be botting, scamming, Gold selling, Real world item trading.

Besides, not to mention that half of the issues of the large number of realms could be minimised through the following methods:

CRZ Linking general chats (less staff could police more realms)
Realm merging of low population realms (people even want this already)

yoku could quite easily consolidate MUCH of this typoe of work into a clear agenda and stamp out botting/trade chat problems very EASILY.

Hell, you could probably even recruit an entirely free level off staff to deal with this through community volunteering.

So don't give us that crap...
Edited by Pandacetamol on 26/10/2012 10:49 BST
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90 Dwarf Death Knight
6245
well I haven't played a bg for months because of the botting issue, I'm mainly a pve player but if you think about how many PVP players have actually got fed up and left the game due to this issue then perhaps the investment is worth while.

also I like the idea of a captcha that would stop people botting
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90 Tauren Druid
5650
26/10/2012 10:35Posted by Takralus
If you think of how many realms there are, then consider how many people you'd need per realm, we are talking literally hundreds, if not thousands of staff. Just to sit and observe the game, not actually helping with the large selection of other issues that Game Masters deal with. Do you really think that's a good investment?


So you stopped trying to get on top of the botting plague? You just ... gave up?

Don't punish the players for your inability to prioritise.

Talk is cheap. How about some action?
Edited by Amadruid on 26/10/2012 11:39 BST
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90 Human Monk
12230
Of course they did, they trim the fat here and there, but go do a BG, specifically go do a 40 player bg on any realm, anywhere, and watch the 50-70% of botters running in circles, performing their roles hilariously (It's clear to see whats a bot and what isn't)

Go move out to ANY world zone, take a look at the people there farming, clearly botters all flying along the same pathways etc.

Go ingame and do a /who botanica or /who [enter dungeon name here from old content thats easy to solo]

As a non-GM, I can utilise methods to identify literally HUNDREDS of bots on my realm at any given time.

As a GM, this could be stamped out, The only problem I forsee is that the 12 million subscription representation by WoW would drop by a rediculous percentile, they would lose an insane amount of money, and probably drop down in active subscribers to what 5-8 million active players.

We all know why nothing is being really done about botting, people are just afraid to admit it
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85 Human Paladin
7155
If you think of how many realms there are, then consider how many people you'd need per realm, we are talking literally hundreds, if not thousands of staff. Just to sit and observe the game, not actually helping with the large selection of other issues that Game Masters deal with. Do you really think that's a good investment?
There were never GMs per realm. You know that already.

But, I'm not sure how long you've been working at Blizz towers Takralus. But I assume you've maybe been playing the game at least long enough to remember a time where GMs would routinely "police" the game. I certainly remember seeing it on multiple occasions during BC.

Just like real world police, they cannot be everywhere all the time. But, if they were seen to be actively enforcing policies and rules by actively getting on servers it would reduce the number of people breaking them. Because, they'd be taking a chance that there MAY be someone watching.

The report system means action is often taken far too long afterwards. I also suspect that the non active stance taken now has led to the average level of abuse/policy breaking has risen, leading to a higher level before punitive action is applied by the GM team.

It's a self perpetuating problem. I remember it was never this bad, either with bots, or in game abuse. I don't even have my rose tinted glasses on!

So to be sure, I'm not talking about even one GM per realm. I am talking about a handful of people, watching trade chat on a realm. Moving along, moving around. Perhaps checking BGs from time to time. Having a presence, joining a conversation sometimes even. People seeing blue text in trade chat would almost certainly mean people would change their attitude, I'm sure of it.

Just an idea really.
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90 Human Monk
12230
Andrai has hit the nail on the head here,

How many times have you driven down a road and seen "SPEED CAMERAS" signage? Without there actually being any speed camera's. At this moment in time it is both the perception AND reality of the community that there is no punishment for botting, there is no punishment for breaking ToS Via real world item trading/duping/BG boosting/Win trading/Gold selling.

Because....it...is.....rife

Giving people at least a bit of an idea outside of "click report into our automated service and maybe something will happen that you never see a result of"

I personally stopped reporting bots a long time ago, I saw a person/group of people botting Botanica, 24/7 for 2 months straight, Every day I put in reports, I spoke to a GM (Who even confirmed to me that they were botting!) and still they went on botting that place for months on end, same characters online 24/7...

I just don't see the point to report any more, the issues aren't dealt with, and GM's do not actively participate in chat any more.

Give the people the power, Make a community driven anti-cheating workforce (who have to apply/be selected/of prooven maturity/and are loyal to the game) I garuntee you'd have hundreds if not thousands of applicants.
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90 Pandaren Monk
7435
There are around 400 realms just taking EU and US on account (Wowpedia). I bet there are THOUSANDS of battlegrounds per hour. And Arenas. And LFR. Surely they also should police the most bot-farmed areas on every realm (Uldum, Jade Forest, etc.). And the capital cities I guess, just to be sure there aren't people exploiting or any suspicious chat going on. We're talking about several thousands of Game Masters just to act full-time as security cameras. How many there are now?

Practically, it would be inefficient. Economically, it would be disastrous.

Some of you are very short-sighted. Blizzard is a company and they have to think about logistics. It's easy to say "WELL PUT A GM EVERY SQUARE METER DUH" when you don't have to balance the ledger at the end of the month.
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90 Human Monk
12230
@Szechuan

1) Channels could be compiled in real time into a master log and key words flagged and sent to appropriate people for remedy
2) Low population realms could be merged to reduce the number of realms
3) Prevention is better than cure > The perception of their being a rammification to your action is often a better deterent than an actual punishment for a crime. You don't commit murder because you know what will happen to you if you do. Currently the perception is you can do whatever the hell you like and nothing will happen.

Look at what CRZ did!!! Before when people were on limited realms, and before LFD, people actually cared about their realm reputation, people didn't ninja items (as much) because they were afraid of the rammifications! Now look, people need for vendor on items they can't physically use, because people now have no social controls in place!!!! this is a direct example of how the perception of something can DIRECTLY influence players in game.

4) Who said this kind of thing has to impact profits? Recruit a community driven anti-cheating group, theres 12 million players here, how many of them would be willing to give up 1 hour of their game time to complete some investigation of activity?

Giving power to the average player could cause a problem yes, but not if they are vetted and have direct guidelines and their activity is monitored. For example:-

Selling BG Boosts whisper me on skype for payment details!

^ violates ToS > Activate ban

Please remember there are more solutions to this problem than BUY MORE EMPLOYEES...
Edited by Pandacetamol on 26/10/2012 11:26 BST
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85 Human Paladin
7155
26/10/2012 11:18Posted by Szechuan
There are around 400 realms just taking EU and US on account (Wowpedia). I bet there are THOUSANDS of battlegrounds per hour. And Arenas. And LFR. Surely they also should police the most bot-farmed areas on every realm (Uldum, Jade Forest, etc.). And the capital cities I guess, just to be sure there aren't people exploiting or any suspicious chat going on. We're talking about several thousands of Game Masters just to act full-time as security cameras. How many there are now?
With respect, I think you're the one being short-sighted. Just like our friend in blue you've made the assumption that I suggested a need for a GM covering everywhere, all the time.

That doesn't happen in the real world. Police aren't able to see everywhere at any time. They have tools to help them be as effective as possible. But, they're still out there on the street. Just watching and interacting with people. That perception is there for a reason. Re-assuring those that abide by the law, and something to think about if you're considering breaking it.

What's the problem with having some GM's to do that? A rotation perhaps to stop their job becoming mundane. So some more are employed. A rotation of duty is setup. The majority to handle tickets, some to handle the realms themselves in various capacities. Swapping roles to keep things interesting.

So, if you see a GM in trade chat calming things down, or appear in a BG and remove some bots. Every now and then. Perhaps just once a month you see it happen, maybe even less. That perceived threat to those that seek to break the rules would likely be enough. Only the hardcore rule breakers would remain I believe. That number would be an easier one to deal with via reports.

It's become quite bad now compared to how things used to be. I'd really like to see something done about it.
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90 Pandaren Hunter
11285
26/10/2012 10:46Posted by Pandacetamol
t would not take this many staff to police channels


You know this cause?? Dude if you just THINK about the number of servers and the amount a person works a day and the amount of hours there is in one day that would atleast need like 3 ppl to switch off during ONE day one ONE server,, thinking about that ONE dude on ONE server, he must be like superb or something monotoring EVERY movement on its own. Multiply those 3 ppl a day per ONE server by the amount of servers,,, Now make the 3 per server per day a bit more realistic and now pls RECONSIDER your statement cause I think by now you know its flawed lol
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90 Pandaren Hunter
11285
26/10/2012 11:25Posted by Andrai
So, if you see a GM in trade chat calming things down, or appear in a BG and remove some bots. Every now and then. Perhaps just once a month you see it happen, maybe even less. That perceived threat to those that seek to break the rules would likely be enough. Only the hardcore rule breakers would remain I believe. That number would be an easier one to deal with via reports.


TBH this woudnt make me feel better any bit knowing that someone is watching you all the time sure its possible since its the interwebz but if someone comes around and start innervering with someone i really CBA about that person tbh, you cant say that it will go this easy, you DONT have a miljons-customur company so you CANT know, so stop making assumptions about thinking your right its so easy to do..
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85 Human Paladin
7155
26/10/2012 11:45Posted by Joan
You know this cause?? Dude if you just THINK about the number of servers and the amount a person works a day and the amount of hours there is in one day that would atleast need like 3 ppl to switch off during ONE day one ONE server,, thinking about that ONE dude on ONE server, he must be like superb or something monotoring EVERY movement on its own. Multiply those 3 ppl a day per ONE server by the amount of servers,,, Now make the 3 per server per day a bit more realistic and now pls RECONSIDER your statement cause I think by now you know its flawed lol
How do the police do it with our tax money? One Police "DUDE" per street watching every person's actions per second! OMG!!!!! It's unpossibru!!

Get a grip. Read what's already been said. You don't need to see everything all the time.
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26/10/2012 10:35Posted by Takralus
Time to hire some new staff with the savings they made to actively watch the game for botters, exploters, other rule breaking (see trade chat)..


If you think of how many realms there are, then consider how many people you'd need per realm, we are talking literally hundreds, if not thousands of staff. Just to sit and observe the game, not actually helping with the large selection of other issues that Game Masters deal with. Do you really think that's a good investment?


sooo what are you going to do, i mean whatever you're doing right now isnt working.. i mean anyone who joins a few bgs at random times can see there's a huge problem. :( give us some feedback on what you're doing and any ideas in the pipeline?

the botting issue isnt going to get better from here if no visible action is taken? its getting progressively worse, (from someone who started early tbc)
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90 Orc Monk
8685
all blizzard needs is a programma to run next to wow to prevent botting software from taking control of wow.

i had a chat with a gm 2 days ago and he said that there's already a system in the game to prevent players from botting. well.. that's simply wrong.

example: you're going to a club but you're not old enough tho you try to sneak in but what the hell, who is that standing outside of the club... it's the bouncer making sure you dont get in.

you see, the bouncer is standing outside to see who gets in and who dont, if the bouncer was inside everyone could rush in and it would already be too late to act and hard to find the slippery kids.

and that's how i see this anti bot system of blizz works like. it's a system in the game, people are already connected to the game, only thing they have to do is to activate the bot and voila, the system now haves to find out who the 16 year old underaged clubber is which takes forever.

there are enough games with anti-cheating software, mostly fps games with programs like "Punkbuster" running on the background to bust any cheating punk.

it works like this:

you connect to a game, Punkbuster client is running on the server and on the client pc, they talk to eachoter, they shake hands, all good? whoopy, you're now connected. now you enable a bot which punkbuster detects causing to instantly being kicked/banned from the game.

so this is what wow needs, not this system IN the game but a program running NEXT to the game to monitor what's happening. it's easy to update because when you find out about the new botting/cheating software you only have to update the client and not the whole game.

please do something about it because the quality of this game is already turning into !@#$ and all i get from GMs is "yes, we're banning botters 24/7 etc etc" well clearly it's not working so find a new way, as you can see, even your community is starting to come up with ideas
Edited by Blaqdynamite on 26/10/2012 11:56 BST
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