New talent "tree". Automatic skills. Well... It sucks.

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80 Blood Elf Paladin
2995
I know that there's probably lots of forum posts about the talent tree being removed. I couldn't find any, except in the MoP beta forum. So forgive me if you read about this for the 934432th time.

So, after skipping an expansion I came back to WoW, and decided to start all new characters. I have to say, that after hitting level 30, I feel like there's almost no progress what-so-ever in levelling, and I've almost already lost my motivation.

I really loved the talent tree. I don't even care that some of the abilities were fluff, they were a necessary evil to get to better stuff, and it made levelling matter. The new talents, well, to me they just feel "meh".

Also, that you get skill "ranks" automatically instead of buying them. Well, on one hand I think it's great, and on the other hand it's yet another thing that's been removed to make levelling feel worthless. I think a great alternative would have been for a "You've levelled, congratulations!" window to appear, where it says which of your attacks have been buffed etc.

tldr; I think that the casual-ification is killing wow.

Oh well. Just a note from a player who gave wow another go, but is finding it hard to keep interested in levelling.
86 Night Elf Druid
4175
The talent trees havent been this interesting some one or two in tbc, and in general, since vanilla so i dont see your points, at all?
90 Worgen Priest
12840
I think that its nice you learn associated passive spells and talents when you choose your spec. It saves me the trouble of having to google the best setup for that spec for that patch.Let's be honest here, there was no effort involved there either - there was no theorycrafting / numbercrunching of my own so the merit was little.

I do miss class trainers though, they've become pretty obsolete. On the other hand its nice to just level out there in the world from 1-90. You don't even need to come in to town to train double spec if you don't want to!
62 Blood Elf Death Knight
11605
20/10/2012 23:04Posted by Nole
tldr; I think that the casual-ification is killing wow.


It's killing wow for the more hardcore players or the old players.
It's making the game more suitable for new and unexpierenced players.
Wow is getting more moneyz this way
I personally think you're bringing up some interesting points here.
While the old talent tree probably were annoying for some cause they had to look upp the best combination for their class and role, I think that earning a talent point every level made you feel that every level rewards something. Nothing big all the times but still something. I lost alot of leveling motivation and overall gaming motivation due to the new talent system, gearscore system and dungeon finder system (don't hate me, I do not try to make changes here).

20/10/2012 23:28Posted by Avendelora
The talent trees havent been this interesting some one or two in tbc, and in general, since vanilla so i dont see your points, at all?


I think the point here is that, as I said, the old talents gave more motivation for alot of players, but of course not everyone. You were rewarded every level with a new point to improve something. You could customize your class the way you wanted to. There isn't alot of customization these days rather than having to choose between 3 different things every 15 level, and in every tier it's about the same thing (at least for paladins). By giving a player a new ability/new stuffs through the talents every 15 level can be quite annoying when leveling up. It doesn't feel like you achive something on your way exept when you reach that point. At least that's my thoughts, I don't say that's a fact in any way.
89 Blood Elf Paladin
9800
I agree I loved being able to make my spec my own and be different from everyone else, I know there were "cookie-cutter builds" a such, but when lvling that didn't matter so much as it wasn't like you had to do that exact spec.
Now to me I feel like we are all the same and that there might as well just be 1 class with 1 damage ability, 1 healing ability and 1 defensive.
90 Draenei Death Knight
10565
I kinda have to agree
don't get me wrong, I love the new talent trees, a lot more choice, I respec on a boss to boss basis in some fight etc, they are amazing, for max level characters...

but it's kinda bad when leveling, sometimes you don't get anything new for 3 or even 4 levels, which makes it feel a lot less rewarding, so some of the carrot is gone when it comes to leveling, granted the sticks has been reduced in size too, but it's still there

I wouldn't call it casualization through, it's a lot easier for casuals to simply look up a guide and go "oh this is how I should spec" than to keep track for the best set up on a boss to boss basis, with some even boiling down to *gasp* personal preference and there being no real answer
90 Dwarf Warrior
10565
I kindof was annoyed at first, before I got used to the way it works. Now I'm happy with the speccing system, despite the long ways between them (15 levels).

However I do miss training skills at the actual trainers.
80 Blood Elf Paladin
2995
21/10/2012 00:40Posted by Cìd
I kindof was annoyed at first, before I got used to the way it works. Now I'm happy with the speccing system, despite the long ways between them (15 levels).


I think it's (probably) okay at max level, even though I'll miss the customization. But while levelling I really miss the carrots at each level. Before the levels actually meant something. Right now they could just as well have the max level as 20 and make the levels much longer.
90 Undead Warlock
14730
21/10/2012 00:25Posted by Empera
You were rewarded every level with a new point


Not really. Every other level.
90 Worgen Druid
14315

It's killing wow for the more hardcore players or the old players.


No, it's killing wow for those players that are resistant to change for no reason, or those who don't like the current system for whatever reason. That's not the same thing. There are plenty of hardcore players or old players who adore the new system for what it is.


tldr; I think that the casual-ification is killing wow.


I don't think that's relevant at all.

I don't think that 'casual-ification' is related to the topic. Beforehand we had talents that, when you didn't get the specific talent set, you were an idiot and would perform worse than other people. Now, you get to choose depending upon your playstyle or situation.

I do think it's a shame that you can often go for three, four levels without gaining a single new ability. You can often gain several in that period, though. It's an unfortunate by-product of how the system works. It'd be nice to have more abilities to flesh that out, but that's a relatively unreasonable request, and it's perfectly understandable as to why it is the way it is.

I don't think there's anything wrong with learning stuff automatically, though.
90 Pandaren Monk
9815
The new talent tree makes it annoying due to the old talent trees you got a talent each lvl, which ain't the case, making it feel boring and become easely burned out. Also they should check up on talents, since some are just better for a specific spec than others, so basicly this means that you have to chose that spell, since it'll be the best or only usefull one for you spec.
- World of Warcraft
90 Worgen Druid
6570
I really liked the old talent tree, but looking across any alts of the same class of the same spec, I realized that the talents were near identical. If you completely wiped your talent tree, you'd only do it just to change one or two, and keep everything else the same. What made it worse was that it was so costly to do so, and I didn't make a great deal of money at the time.

Furthermore, I hated the fact that if I didn't do what other sites told me to, I would crash and burn in raids and even in dungeons. How I play and what I like the sound of is none of the party's concern - I have the choice to put my talents where needed, and I have the choice to have fun.

It's far from perfect but at least it didn't mutate into what Rift had - an unbalanced mess combining all your class' specs into one deformed and vile tree.
21/10/2012 02:01Posted by Kargon
Not really. Every other level.


In cataclysm they changed to that. But in Vanilla, BC and Wrath you gained 1 point each level.
90 Dwarf Death Knight
6245
I love the new system I can switch talents as I wish and when I wish, oh I need to cc here? let me just spec a cc for a minute, its so flexible compared to the old system its not even funny.
90 Draenei Shaman
12185
21/10/2012 01:55Posted by Nole
I think it's (probably) okay at max level, even though I'll miss the customization.

What customization?

So far, I only remember 4 specs throughout the game which was viable, namely Warlock /w Sacrifice and Prot-Ret Paladin in TBC, Ele-Enhance Shaman and Frost-Fire Mage in WLK.
If people chosed to go full out on a tree, the choices were only limited to procent-based stuff.
With only 4 specs (that I can remember, I don't remember much from vanilla), can you honestly say there were more customization back then than there is now?

I like the concept with the current talent-trees. I don't agree with the amount (I think 9 would have been better), nor do I agree with most of the talents (Warlock especially), but I still think they bring more customization than it did before (meaning Cata at least).
That said, the talents still needs a lot of tweaking.
89 Worgen Warlock
3335
Every expansion WoW becomes more dumbed down. For us who have been playing since the beginning it is very frustrating. We used to have to work to get through the levels. It was a massive accomplishment to get to the max level, but its not like Blizzard listens to us, WoW has just become a money making machine.
- World of Warcraft
90 Worgen Druid
6570
I much prefer this new system. I joined in Cata, and I was often dismissed for raids because I had one or two talents different to someone else. Plus, mixing and matching wasn't an option that existed - you knew exactly what talents you wanted, and you wouldn't change them in the slightest except for one or two in a respec.

As for this system, it makes Blizzard's job of balancing a whole lot easier. I didn't like it at first, and when I level, I'm a little peeved. But hey, it actually gives me something to think about, and the reward is worth it every 15 levels.
90 Human Warlock
14370
Now you don't have to click something you're going to get anyway, and we're not being balanced around extraneous stuff we don't even use. I'm fine with it; the actual talent choices are just that, choices and it's the first time they've been a choice since the inception of the game.

20/10/2012 23:04Posted by Nole
Also, that you get skill "ranks" automatically instead of buying them. Well, on one hand I think it's great, and on the other hand it's yet another thing that's been removed to make levelling feel worthless. I think a great alternative would have been for a "You've levelled, congratulations!" window to appear, where it says which of your attacks have been buffed etc.

In response to this in particular: They removed ranks because spell ranks led to some very weird, counter-intuitive play especially in regard to healing where low ranked spells were being used to save mana while proccing secondary effects to use with top-ranked spells.

Overall, a lot of it isn't just about making the game easier for players to play, but actually about making the game easier to manage and control from the development end, by not exposing themselves to too many things where players think of things they didn't and as a result soak up time and resources applying fixes to problems they hadn't envisaged and need not exist to begin with. All that leads to a smoother game all round.
Edited by Jessicka on 15/11/2012 14:07 GMT
90 Blood Elf Paladin
8645
well i gotta agree with you. with the old talent system you actually had the feeling you were really "building" your character. and you had something to look forward to every 2 levels. now it's just every 15 levels: "here free pretty much useless ability... meh ", except for level 90 abilities. =/
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