Upgradeable PvP gear - consequences

90 Human Paladin
7885
Hello!

A blue post announced a change in available pvp gear. After having bought the standard pvp set you could spend Honor and Conquest points to upgrade that gear.

The whole of PvP community disagrees with this change. As far as I'm concerned, this is intended to prevent people from sitting their high rates and helping people not to have useless conquest points. If (and apparently when?) the change goes live people will be basically forced to do RBGs to stay competitive. RBGs offer a way higher cap and also lets you sit your fancy 3v3 rating. More farming, less competition - something that every serious gamer hates.

This would also affect newcomers and alts negatively. And this is my major concern. Now that You didn't reset MMR they are already struggling to get higher rating. With this change every new player and alt would also be left behind in gear just because they didn't start to play during the first weeks of the season. It would be impossible for anyone to get any high rating late in the season.

I've discussed this with various players, both high and low experienced. Every one of them has agreed that more farming is boring and causing futile unbalance. It will only lead to increasing the gear gap between the high rated and the mid-rated. Managing well in arenas would promote the meaning of gear, not skill.

All in all this is a failed attempt to stop people from sitting their ratings. It has to be fixed but this has no effect in it. If you intended to give the fully geared guys something to do when they are conquest capped, here are some ideas for that:
1) Vanity items & transmog gear would be a fun and easy solution.
2) Account-wide conquest points or conquest cap. This one needs a lot of tweaking but I see future for it. Once you get full gear, you can choose to send your conquest points to your alt with a penalty. Would be something like the one when you buy justice points with honor.
3) Off-specc gear. Simple and working.
4) No more 6 month seasons. Shortening the seasons would prevent people from capping CP.

Noticing the recent blue activity among PvP forums, I know that someone is actually reading these posts. Now I beg for actions. Please listen to your customers and put those developers to play arenas properly. A lot of insane things have gone live, most of which would've been prevented by listening the community. Please, by all means, start consulting us more. We play the game, we know how it feels.

Thanks for reading, I sincerely hope I don't have to get back to these forums this often.
-Ewyn
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90 Undead Priest
3900
+1
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90 Human Paladin
14665
We spoke about this when we did RBGs the other day and everyone said the exact same thing, how is this going to help people camping arena ratings at all? The current R1 team on Misery is in my RBG team and they were just laughing right at this suggestion and saying why would we queue when we get a 2800 Arena cap and 3.2 RBG cap?

It doesn't make sense, not even with the TR inflation that they're suggesting it would help since your MMR wont inflate from what I understood.
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90 Human Paladin
7885
That's exactly what I mean. It has no effect in the top teams. Just wondering if there is ANYTHING good about this idea. I couldn't come up with one. I see why they did the pve part but it simply doesn't work in pvp.

-Ewyn
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90 Undead Monk
10735
agreed. please post this on gc's twitter.. if this change to live im not closer to stay subbed blizz.. more like the opposite :-)

stop forcing your players to do rbg and get rid of this idea.
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90 Undead Warlock
6430
Play on the Tournament Realm if you hate gear imbalance. This game is a MMO-RPG, gear upgrading is a major part of it, you should never get to a point where you don't have upgrades.
Edited by Vaju on 30/11/2012 00:49 GMT
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90 Undead Monk
10735
03/11/2012 00:26Posted by Vaju
Play on the Tournament Realm is you hate gear imbalance. This game is a MMO-RPG, gear upgrading is a major part of it, you should never get to a point where you don't have upgrades.


Do you even understand the whole concept of this?
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90 Undead Warlock
6430
03/11/2012 00:27Posted by Soku
Do you even understand the whole concept of this?


Yes, it's a simple concept, MMO-RPG. If you don't like it, don't play it.
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90 Undead Monk
10735
I ask again do you even understand what this change would mean?
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100 Dwarf Shaman
14555
Hmm not sure i follow but does it mean theres another higher tier of pvp gear?
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90 Human Paladin
7885
Every item would have a chance to be upgraded. The item would be the same Malevolent Gladiator's Ornamented Legplates but by spending 750 CP you could give it an iLevel boost and upgrade its stats. Item would appear with enhanced stats and a marking "Upgraded 1/2". You can read the whole story in the blue post. You can find it in MMO Champion atleast :)

-Ewyn
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MVP
100 Gnome Priest
20055
03/11/2012 00:10Posted by Ewyn
That's exactly what I mean. It has no effect in the top teams. Just wondering if there is ANYTHING good about this idea.

But the top teams are by sheer definition few, and everyone below them many.

My scrubby PvP adventures always goes as follows:
A new season begins with a new PvP set. I do battlegrounds on a daily basis so I can slowly earn the new set. Once I have acquired the full set and no longer have anything to spend my Conquest / Honor points on, then I stop doing PvP completely until the next season begins.

I mean, PvP does not get new content the way PvE does, so there's only two driving factors that encourages you to do it. One is the rewards at the top; elite gear and titles and mount. The other is the Honor and Conquest gear.

If you're a high–end PvPer, then the competition over gladiator titles and trying to reach 2200 rating and what not, that can keep you going more or less throughout the entire season – as far as encouragement to play goes.
But for the scrubnubs like me, then halfway through the season when you've replaced your last piece of Honor gear with Conquest gear, then you're done. That's it. There's nothing more to play for in the season.

Being able to upgrade your gear further with Honor and Conquest points will – for me personally – add an incentive to keep PvPing throughout the entire season, because I'll be able to continue upgrading my gear and thus progressing my character.
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90 Undead Warrior
8830
What the paladin said.

-Stormscream.
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90 Human Paladin
14665
03/11/2012 01:01Posted by Jito
A new season begins with a new PvP set. I do battlegrounds on a daily basis so I can slowly earn the new set. Once I have acquired the full set and no longer have anything to spend my Conquest / Honor points on, then I stop doing PvP completely until the next season begins.


Do you know why you stop playing PvP? Because you only play 1 aspect of the PvP game. Random BGs.

Let's say you tried something new such as Arenas, maybe you get hooked and continue playing them for a bit. Get some gear you know, learn to know some new nice people. Let's say a couple of months of arenas and then you get bored. I can understand that happens to people.

But HEY as you so often describe your incredibly interesting random BG experiences, maybe you want to try rated once? Play them for a few months and it's time for the last 2 weeks of the season!!, maybe you would want a Duelist title from arenas so you push those and maybe you don't get 2k in arenas but hey you tried and there's always next season right? At least that's how I felt in S9 - S10.

I really wouldn't mind if this system was just completely cosmetic and you got no actual stat upgrade but yeah. When looking at the pictures that were linked on MMO the stat upgrade seem to be around 200 upgrade so that wont keep anyone playing.
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90 Human Paladin
8520
Do you even understand the whole concept of this?


Yes, it's a simple concept, MMO-RPG. If you don't like it, don't play it.


Upgrading gear through constant progession is a good idea and more power to the PvEr's who obviously will support this idea due to the fact they can upgrade gear until they get a better piece.

Your attitude on the matter stinks. People should be allowed to voice their opinions without being told to not play the game if they don't like it.

From a PvP perspective the idea is balls. Gear upgrades when PvP is concerned should only happen once a season (that is to say going from S12 > S13.)

This change is definetely going to negatively affect new players/alts who may start PvPing later in the seasons. Not only do they actually have to spend points to buy new gear, they will also need to spend MORE points just to keep up with people who have started from the beginning.

Gear farming just got a whole lot more aggrivating and I for one do not appreciate this change. I'm willing to bet my life that most, if not all, top-rated players will agree.

03/11/2012 01:01Posted by Jito
Being able to upgrade your gear further with Honor and Conquest points will – for me personally – add an incentive to keep PvPing throughout the entire season, because I'll be able to continue upgrading my gear and thus progressing my character.


You want incentives to PvP? How about the chance for Elite gear? A title? Or even vanity items if they ever get implemented. Not some dumb way to incease stats on PvP gear.
Edited by Âëí on 03/11/2012 01:18 GMT
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MVP
100 Gnome Priest
20055
03/11/2012 01:12Posted by Mírion
Do you know why you stop playing PvP? Because you only play 1 aspect of the PvP game. Random BGs.

True. But that is most likely the PvP experience most players have. Those who do Arenas are few. Those who do Rated Battlegrounds are fewer. And those who do both of those are fewer still.
Alas, if the gear-upgrade system is good for those who do Random Battlegrounds, it's good for many.

03/11/2012 01:12Posted by Mírion
I really wouldn't mind if this system was just completely cosmetic and you got no actual stat upgrade but yeah.

It's difficult to see what cosmetic rewards you could implement that would work in the long term. I mean, a tabard or two is cool. But eventually you'll have 50, and then what's one more going to matter? The same can be said for transmogrification gear. How much can you really need? And is it likely to be used if it's easy to acquire and not super epeen ala the Challenge Mode transmogrification gear?
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90 Human Mage
6680
Jito, you dont even do any arenas.
Nobody cares wether or not you stop pvping for rest of the season once youve got your gear,
it really is not relevant, nobody could care less about it, I didnt think it was hard to realise but this change would be affecting those doing arena, not particulary those who just do random bgs and nothing more ...

I agree with you OP, I really fail to see anything good coming out of this, neither do I understand why it would prevent high ranked teams from sitting on their ratings rest of the season.

*thumbs down for this change*
Edited by Sheepwithme on 03/11/2012 01:38 GMT
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90 Human Paladin
14665
03/11/2012 01:27Posted by Jito
a tabard or two is cool. But eventually you'll have 50, and then what's one more going to matter? The same can be said for transmogrification gear. How much can you really need? And is it likely to be used if it's easy to acquire and not super epeen ala the Challenge Mode transmogrification gear?


Add 1 Tabard per season like in Wrath, make it require you to earn a ridiculous amounts of Conquest Points from a certain bracket? A rating requirement seems a bit meh since you want to promote activity in arenas. Remove after season ends to make it "unique".

Transmog gear is cool and if you just use the re-colors that they create anyway? Make another 2 - 3 of the same sets with other colors?

Pets, mounts, tabards, titles, achievements, cool vanity items like the once from the new rares? Maybe older PvP pets with re-colors? Some things I think could work well.

Nobody cares wether or not you stop pvping for rest of the season once youve got your gear


It doesn't apply to just him but loads of casual PvPers.
Edited by Mírion on 03/11/2012 01:43 GMT
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MVP
100 Gnome Priest
20055
03/11/2012 01:36Posted by Sheepwithme
Jito, you dont even do any arenas.

Doesn't matter. I responded to this:
03/11/2012 00:10Posted by Ewyn
Just wondering if there is ANYTHING good about this idea.

And I gave an answer to that.

Nobody cares wether or not you stop pvping for rest of the season once youve got your gear,it really is not relevant, nobody could care less about it, I didnt think it was hard to realise but this change would be affecting those doing arena, not particulary those who just do random bgs and nothing more ...

Nobody cares? I beg to differ. I'm pretty sure both Blizzard and the players care about having incentives to do what they enjoy in the game. Blizzard because it results in happy players enjoying the game. And the players because they feel rewarded by doing the game activity they've chosen.
Does it affect those who do Arenas negatively? Those at the top, maybe. I'll leave that to the more knowledged on that area. But everyone else? Arguably not. If you're an Arena scrubnub, then you're not in it for the Gladiator competition. You're in it for the gear. That's your incentive beyond the sheer enjoyment of it. The gear-upgrade system just furthers that incentive, i.e. you get even better gear, and you get to work toward it for even longer. Yay, more reason to play!
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90 Human Mage
6680
[quote]

It doesn't apply to just him but loads of casual PvPers.


Well I dont see whats the point of doing bgs, just to get the gear, then stop and that being it, whats the point of getting the gear then in the 1st place, I personally do it because I find it fun to do, altho right now with all these bots it is kind of boring.

And thats another thing, If im understanding it correctly you will be able to upgrade gear with honor aswell, well with this current bot situation there is, I just find this idea even more stupid, theres so many bots nowadays running around in bgs, and to be able to update your gear with honor would only benefit the botters aka the cheaters the most, thats just not right.

Which I suppose only would end up with even more people getting bots aswell, to farm honor to keep upgrading their gear, unless theres a specific "item upgrade level" that you can get too, but still, botters would benefit alot from thiss, blizzard need to take a good look in to this before they implent it.

But yeah, I hate this idea.

@Jito, ofcourse it would affect _everyone_ doing arenas... not only high rated players whos playing for glad titles, theres other titles then glad too. How are newcomers/alts supposed to stand a chance with unupgraded gear when the opponents they meet has alot better gear then themselves due to it being upgraded? They will be put at a huge disatvantage right away, it shouldnt be gear > skill, and it really feels thats the way it will be when these changes take place. Thats not cool imo.
Edited by Sheepwithme on 03/11/2012 01:56 GMT
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