Warriors are fine, it's a L2P issue

13 Undead Warlock
30

Is 1-shotting someone like that, in any situtation, OK to you?


No, was one shoting in df by mage during whole cata ok? Was one shoting by rogue in one smokebomb during s11 ok? Also no. How is warrior different? They actually need luck to get 5 stacks in arena game, I told that before, Reckful streams for hours every day and as far as I know he one shoted one guy. That doesn't happen every game or even every day. Do you see what mages are doing atm? They actually are able to drop people in one df every single time they cast it.

Give back gag order glyph and then nerf burst dmg. Without gag order, dmg must stay cause warrior will be useless again.


You do know that for example the mages (who you are so bitter to) burst is WAY easier to counter than warriors random 1-shot? You have alot of time to react on a mage whos red and popped everything he has. When warrior does this, you simply can't react fast enough, as the best of players have proven in their streams or in Youtube.

Get over your grudge towards casters and admit that warriors are more troublesome now than any casters has been.
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86 Night Elf Priest
11000
07/11/2012 17:28Posted by Nikøla
I watch Reckful stream, I hear he is a great player with great partners (Venruki atm). Can anybody explain to me that why he got 5 stacks only once in all his streaming? As far as I know he one shoted only one druid, he streams almost every day. He also lost all games to lock/mage/shaman ;)


He prob uses HS a lot more often, therefor doesn't let the buff stack on purpose..
Higher sustainted damage.
I've also seen Reckful using bloodbath for quite some time since he thought that by using Avater an arena wasn't a challange as a warrior.
My guess is that If he wants to burst, he doesn't need 5 stacks of TfB, the 1 million stacking CD's take care of that.

Just a theory...
Edited by Axora on 07/11/2012 17:45 GMT
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Community
I cannot say this enough, I am not defending TFB nor have we said at any point that this much damage coming from a single skill in PvP is fine. I actually posted that three times so far in this thread. I come here to add to the discussion that is already happening and hope to spur further conversation on the subject. As we always do, the feedback in this thread has been noted so please continue to discuss the topic.

Even though it is off-topic, Chaos Bolt damage is something that has been mentioned here a few times. Understand that mistakes in arena should be something that creates consequences for you. Allowing a three second cast like Chaos bolt to finish is a mistake and as such the consequence is lots of incoming damage. The only time there is an exception to the three second cast is when Backdraft affects Chaos Bolt, which you can see coming from the Warlock having three Burning Embers. Awareness and good reactions helps preventing damage from this though. You can also force the Warlock into using their Burning Embers defensively on Ember Tap or other skills so they cannot cast as many Chaos bolts. I recommend that you open up a separate thread to discuss Warlocks and Chaos Bolt, this topic is about Warrior damage and Taste for Blood.

Back on topic; we are going to be trying out a change on the PTR where Taste for Blood will only be able to stack to a maximum of three. As has been said earlier in the thread and by Ghostcrawler on Twitter, the chance of getting five stacks is so incredibly low that this will have very little balance implications. We do admit though, the lack of it continuing to occur after this will be a nice quality of life and balance change. :)

Please continue to give your feedback on TFB and Warrior burst, as well as constructive thoughts on how you think it could be changed, for example: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/5847955473?page=8#141
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90 Troll Shaman
10845
http://www.arenastats.com/

Rogues in S11 ...14%. And thats with legendaries....without they wouldve been balanced. like 80% of all top teams are warrior teams now. Thats 25-30%.

Its insane....something needs to be done fast. -_-
The actual number on the top class doesn't matter so much, it's the representation compared to the second highest that matters.

Check out the s11 stats, the top 4 classes are all within 1% from each other.

Now compare this to warriors being at 18% and the second highest, paladins at 13% or, even more dramatic, the top four dropping from 18% to 11%

This is a huge !@#$ing joke and anybody trying to defend the current state of warriors is braindamaged. This hero class !@#$ has to stop and the nerbat has to hit warriors all across the board: survivability/mobility/control and damage need to be drastically reduced.
Edited by Krahzilian on 07/11/2012 18:10 GMT
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90 Undead Mage
10150
No offence Blizz but how can you even let this 0.2% change be in the GAIJMZ!?

Let's say.... It is a match betweet Team A and Team B in 3v3, Team A needs 1 point to get Gladiator this season. It is 5 minutes before the servers closes down and they are in an arena match which they are close to win. Team B's Warrior gets 5TFB stacks because of that 0.2% chanse just happend to him. He charges the healer and 1shots him. Team A losses their well deserved rank and mount.

This is still possible in arenas. There is a chanse where this 1 sec charge HC strike comes.

Get rid of this redic RNG from some classes inculding me.
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81 Pandaren Warrior
10740
Warriors got skills folk deal with it they had to learn cos they were so crap in cata.

You all need to catc


Ahahaahhahhahahha. Hopefully a troll.
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90 Goblin Warrior
10355
07/11/2012 17:42Posted by Axora
I've also seen Reckful using bloodbath for quite some time since he thought that by using Avater an arena wasn't a challange as a warrior.


No...he took Bloodbath because he "doesn't like long CDs" and Bloodbath was only 1 minute CD vs 3 minute Avatar.
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90 Undead Rogue
9125
07/11/2012 18:08Posted by Krahzilian
This is a huge !@#$ing joke and anybody trying to defend the current state of warriors is braindamaged. This hero class !@#$ has to stop and the nerbat has to hit warriors all across the board: survivability/mobility/control and damage need to be drastically reduced.


this ^
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8340
I cannot say this enough, I am not defending TFB nor have we said at any point that this much damage coming from a single skill in PvP is fine. I actually posted that three times so far in this thread. I come here to add to the discussion that is already happening and hope to spur further conversation on the subject. As we always do, the feedback in this thread has been noted so please continue to discuss the topic.

Even though it is off-topic, Chaos Bolt damage is something that has been mentioned here a few times. Understand that mistakes in arena should be something that creates consequences for you. Allowing a three second cast like Chaos bolt to finish is a mistake and as such the consequence is lots of incoming damage. The only time there is an exception to the three second cast is when Backdraft affects Chaos Bolt, which you can see coming from the Warlock having three Burning Embers. Awareness and good reactions helps preventing damage from this though. You can also force the Warlock into using their Burning Embers defensively on Ember Tap or other skills so they cannot cast as many Chaos bolts. I recommend that you open up a separate thread to discuss Warlocks and Chaos Bolt, this topic is about Warrior damage and Taste for Blood.

Back on topic; we are going to be trying out a change on the PTR where Taste for Blood will only be able to stack to a maximum of three. As has been said earlier in the thread and by Ghostcrawler on Twitter, the chance of getting five stacks is so incredibly low that this will have very little balance implications. We do admit though, the lack of it continuing to occur after this will be a nice quality of life and balance change. :)

Please continue to give your feedback on TFB and Warrior burst, as well as constructive thoughts on how you think it could be changed, for example: link


Now that sounds like a reasonable decision. :)
With 3-stack + all CD HS the damage is still super high but a whole bunch more managable than the 5 stack - out of this world - hits.

Asking for an increased CD on Shockwave would be too much though, eh? :D
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
6735
07/11/2012 18:06Posted by Nakatoir
Back on topic; we are going to be trying out a change on the PTR where Taste for Blood will only be able to stack to a maximum of three. As has been said earlier in the thread and by Ghostcrawler on Twitter, the chance of getting five stacks is so incredibly low that this will have very little balance implications. We do admit though, the lack of it continuing to occur after this will be a nice quality of life and balance change. :)


even though it's a low chance of getting 5 stacks I still don't think warriors should be given a free win every couple of games
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86 Night Elf Priest
11000
07/11/2012 18:06Posted by Nakatoir
I am not defending TFB nor have we said at any point that this much damage coming from a single skill in PvP is fine.


Then do something about it !

For christ sake, are we supposed to wait mounths and mounths, seasons and seasons at every single expansion before the most basic issues of PvP are adressed?

For your information, there was a huge amount of feedback during a beta version that ran for mounths, then before the start of the season more feedback was released by the intire community. Now that the season has started there have been 1 million threads about this issue.

(Personal MINDFLASH= After a beta-test running for mounths, weeks since the start of the season a class can deal 310.000 damage by pressing 1 button, and I have 320.000 HP. Wauw, just ... how ... what? .. I .... I DONT GET IT !!! How can the human brain screw like that !!! )

A lot of good arena players decided to not even give MoP a chance anymore after the chaos of Cataclysm.

I AM NOT GOING TO WAIT UNTILL 5.1 AND THEN 5.2 BEFORE THERE IS A PLAYABLE PVP-SCENE.

I've already done that during wotlk and freaking intire cataclysm, and your time is up !

FYI: 3 stacks on PTR, compleet failure of adressing this issue. Not even close Blizzard ! Won't be long before we see the 3x TfB + Dragon's roar insta kills (using Skull-banner, reck-avatar, basically everything that they're using now) Only then the player won't die by 1 single number, it will be 2 numbers resulting in the same damage, IN THE SAME GLOBAL ! Unbelievable...
Edited by Axora on 07/11/2012 18:52 GMT
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90 Human Paladin
9025
You can't actually react even if you predict it. HS is not on the GCD, the warrior can literally charge->1shot in a split-second. What are you supposed to do? Make your whole arena team activate all defensive cooldowns as soon as you see a 5stack? It has nothing to do with uptime too, they either fall of or stack in about 30 sec. It's plain rng.

Just make stuff like this completely impossible. Having even the slightest chance of globaling someone is just unnecessary and frustrating. It's also very easy to fix without hurting warriors in PvE.
You could...
-make all the extra damage be applied as a long bleed
-increase procc chance and nerf it to 40% more dmg/stack
-cut the stack size and buff white damage a bit to compensate

I can live with rng in my DPS. I'm not ok with it when it completely dominates the outcome of the match. I'm not just talking about TfB.
In 5.1, Retburst will still be balanced around the low crit chance, making it absolutely retarded if they crit 2-3 times in a row (~2% of the time). Selfless Healer will still crit for >150k heal, making it absolutely retarded 25% of the time.
It might happen less often, but mages will still kill people from 90% in a single deepfreeze on their own while the enemy healer is in a softcounter.

Making something completely broken less likely to happen is the worst way to fix it. Please just fix it.
Edited by Crowno on 07/11/2012 18:50 GMT
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90 Orc Hunter
0
I haven't done anything but weekly caps since I have been globaled by warrior every game I meet them. Not only that but if we cc the healer -> me and feral pop every single cd -> warrior is at 30% when this happens but no longer loses hp. Also if warrior connects with me more than 5 sec whole game I'm dead.

hunter was better in cata than what it is atm because of 75% of the teams I meet has a warrior. Only warrior comp we win is ret warrior
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
2445
@ Blue post

On chaos bolt. I agree there should be consequences, but then every class should be able to deliver those, and rogues for one will acomplish !@#$ in 3 sec as opposed to Chaos bolt. Its the same issue with warriors zerg, there shouldn't be skills in the game that everyone have to be afraid for and save every defensive CD.

Turn this terrible ship around please, you are not doing a good job at balancing or even fixing things when they are wrong - you are slow, get a move on.
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90 Orc Warrior
11725
is something going to be done to help arms dps, I know the pvp the burst is out of control but this spec can't afford any dps nerfs in pve right now. Its only advantage over fury was its cleave which its not even pulling ahead on cleave fights anymore (see windlord) hopefully they could make it so you get a 3 stack much more often which would help our single target a little as atm its pretty much becoming a dead spec outside of PvP which is something I thought blizzard wanted to avoid.
I would be amazing to have a 2-3 stack much more often, people even suggested giving it a powerful bleed based on tfb stacks, it needs something though as Im quickly becoming the last arms warrior standing in a high end raiding guild.
Edited by Camthalíon on 07/11/2012 19:19 GMT
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90 Human Mage
5905

Back on topic; we are going to be trying out a change on the PTR where Taste for Blood will only be able to stack to a maximum of three. As has been said earlier in the thread and by Ghostcrawler on Twitter, the chance of getting five stacks is so incredibly low that this will have very little balance implications. We do admit though, the lack of it continuing to occur after this will be a nice quality of life and balance change. :)


Incredible stuff! Absolutely great. Now I think shockwave should be looked at, but stuff is starting to look good :)
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90 Human Warrior
19145
Blizzard pls think about it. Currently warriors are pretty good, but if you remove to much from this formula then the final result wont be happy. If you designed a cast like this during the whole beta, then dont you think its to much to remove: all silence, all movement immunity and the the fear on +50% percent CD. I understand that this kind of things mean unbalanced pvp on lower rates but on higher rates its not the same. People can handle this on higher rates, what will be after the patch? I understand that something must be done because now its very easy to be viable with warrior, not to mention what if you are good with a warrior. But these things feels to me to much. You play this in all expansion with warrior. In the beginning they are too good, and after that they are useless. Remember: before 4.1 it was the same issues with warriors, you designed this kind of warriors in mop beta and you will nerf them like with 4.1. After 4.1 nobody wanted to play with a warrior if they were aiming high. Consider the amount of nerfs or give something to warriors to compensate these if you stick with it because i have the same feeling about it. Pummel silence was to hardcore but heroic throw! really? it has no dmg and even no use then.
Dont understand me in the wrong way. I was handling pretty much weak warrior in cata, and i like challenges but i think its a big issue of designing if you make this roller-coaster effect. Once too high and after it to low. Sorry for the long post but this is my POV.
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90 Human Warrior
6755
first thing i will say is yes warriors are slightly over powered specially the 240k crits that i can make to healers. on the other hand u can watch our stacks at all times and can that way CC us so we lose the stacks which isnt hard at all since we aswell need to be lucky to get those stacks and to keep them. i also noticed some holy paladins are complaining about warriors - and holy paladisn arent OP? barely ever have to cast. warrior burst is based on crit sicne otu cooldowns give us 90% crit for about 8 seconds and a paladin can counter all of it with a single less then 1 sec cast time spell that has no cooldown and almost no mana cost (denounce). paladins also need spend only 1 holy power and they get 25% chance that next spell will not require any holy power at all which basically means every 4 holy power spent u will get 3 more holy power.
i agree that warriors should be nerfed but lets face it that it is ridiculous that holy paladin is saying that our shockwave should have 1min cooldown etc. also removing out silence will cause us te be basically useless in 1v1 against healers (not counting the stacks to 2 shot him). also resto shaman's tremor totem has same cooldown as our fear has so basically our fear is useless if a team has a shaman.
Edited by Shammane on 07/11/2012 20:40 GMT
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90 Human Warrior
6755
agree about the mages. not casting at all and doing 50k crits with and instant is just retarded. not saying anything about the OP warrior burst but lets face it if a mage is good warrior has no chances of killing him. ever. no way u can get to him if he knows how to play decently
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90 Human Warrior
6755

Back on topic; we are going to be trying out a change on the PTR where Taste for Blood will only be able to stack to a maximum of three. As has been said earlier in the thread and by Ghostcrawler on Twitter, the chance of getting five stacks is so incredibly low that this will have very little balance implications. We do admit though, the lack of it continuing to occur after this will be a nice quality of life and balance change. :)


Incredible stuff! Absolutely great. Now I think shockwave should be looked at, but stuff is starting to look good :)


says a mage hahaha because warriors bother u so much
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