Warriors are fine, it's a L2P issue

90 Orc Warrior
7885
06/11/2012 10:59Posted by Rawrstomp
Threads like these are utterly pointless and don't benefit the forums a single bit.


And you expect threads to benefit the forums? You must be new here.
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90 Orc Warrior
14610
5 stacks to obtain is not easy, i've played aroung 60 arena games this season and maximum I had was 4 once only. The enemy team should simply cc or use defensive CD once 5 stacks..just watch it and you'll survive
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90 Night Elf Warrior
17350
it is also l2 adapt issue...
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1 Human Monk
0
06/11/2012 14:11Posted by Shortmeister
5 stacks to obtain is not easy, i've played aroung 60 arena games this season and maximum I had was 4 once only. The enemy team should simply cc or use defensive CD once 5 stacks..just watch it and you'll survive


ye and warriors dont do crazy dmg without 5 stacks :D

Since warriora admit that 5 TFB stacks rarely ever happen we know that TFB isnt the main issue behind warriors Opness.

What really is the issue is the combination of crazy burst (even without TFB stacks), the mobility and pretty much the best survibility of any non healer.

06/11/2012 15:53Posted by Shirei
it is also l2 adapt issue...


Yes everyone besides warriors need to adapt. Since warriors wherent strong in ANY of the past seasons, people are just used of warriors being weak the past 11 seasons?

Right?

Let imagine they gave monk a nuclear bomb spell that 1 shots everything within 100 yards. But ye it has a 1.5 sec cast time so it can be interupted or you can clone or stunn him when he does it... so that would be fine right?

People would just need to adapt to the aoe 1 shot.
Edited by Drcookie on 06/11/2012 16:06 GMT
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Community
So this video has been getting around a lot lately, showing up in many different threads so let us just make this the main one for its discussion :)

05/11/2012 07:13Posted by Adeyemi
Yeah, because clearly you should be expecting a 200k+ HC strike. I'm sorry, but there's no way you can anticipate this kind of damage as it's completely RNG and you're dead before you can react.
Actually, in a way you can. If you monitor the Warriors buffs, you will be able to see the number of Taste for Blood (TFB) stacks that are building up and this is can indicate when the cooldowns are going to be popped and the big damage is incoming. So this allows you to be prepared for when they jump onto you and you can use your defensive cooldowns. Please understand that we are in no way saying that this damage is fine, but it does take a lot of work for a Warrior to do this and can be predicted.

I know that the theory is not the same as in practice and keeping constant tabs on the Warriors TFB stacks is not always possible. The main point that needs to be mentioned though is that the cooldowns you can see being blown in this video on their own, while a major damage increase, is not substantial enough to global a player unless used in conjunction with several stacks of TFB to create a HUGE heroic strike critical.

For a Warrior to build up enough stacks to global a player like seen in this video, they need a incredible amounts of up time to make sure the stacks of TFB do not fall off before getting a new one. To make it clearer, in 15 seconds they need to get a new stack of TFB and then repeat that, hoping their stacks do not fall off before the buff expires. Four or five TFB stacks are generally needed to pull off the Heroic Strike damage you see in the video on a well geared player and because of the changes in 5.1 these stacks while still possible to build, will not be as easy to get as they are now.

The main change that does this is the one to Avatar, which removes movement impairing effects rather than making you immune to them, this is because your up-time will not be nearly as high. This means that while you may very rarely still see a large heroic strike like this because someone is good enough or the Warrior is facing someone who is struggling to keep their distance, they will be less common. If a Warrior is good enough to build those stacks though, you can anticipate the incoming damage by watching their TFB stacks.

So this change to Avatar lowers two key issues with Warriors, mobility and burst and the Gag Order change helps with their control. Do not think that these change makes Warriors too controllable or weak in Arena, they will simply no longer be able to stick to a target constantly and build up TFB stacks, then afterwards global a player.
Edited by Nakatoir on 06/11/2012 18:39 GMT
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90 Human Paladin
16190
06/11/2012 02:23Posted by Rasen
Maybe a bit. I'm more disappointed at the Warrior forums more than anything else, that place is filled with some of the biggest idiots I've ever come across.


What do u expect? All the Mages, Locks, and Rogues just moved next door to the Warrior side, if they were any good they would not be FOTM rerollers. So naturally they dont see what ever it is that they play as OP.

06/11/2012 14:11Posted by Shortmeister
5 stacks to obtain is not easy, i've played aroung 60 arena games this season and maximum I had was 4 once only. The enemy team should simply cc or use defensive CD once 5 stacks..just watch it and you'll survive


Ehh, ignorance is bliss.
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90 Orc Monk
10900
cmon how can anyone honestly defend something that can oneshot people, nobody should even have the rng to do that in the first place.. -.-
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90 Human Paladin
16190
06/11/2012 17:11Posted by Nakatoir
Please understand that we are in no way saying that this damage is fine


''Warriors – We don’t think Warrior burst is out of control'' Ghostcrawler

What do u mean? ur Lord and Master Gregy boy told us that Warrior burst is fine! how dare u go against his divine will!
Edited by Triumvir on 06/11/2012 17:16 GMT
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90 Tauren Druid
4830
So Nakatoir your saying you should pop your defensive since u see the stack before they even engaded you and pop their cds, since if u pop it at the sametime ur dead anyway since of no GCD on heroic strike i belive,

very nice pop all defensives before, warriors sees it goes on next target, lololol
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90 Human Paladin
16190
06/11/2012 17:17Posted by Konradxo
So Nakatoir your saying


What he is saying is that Greg went from Mage to Warrior.
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Community
06/11/2012 17:15Posted by Triumvir
Please understand that we are in no way saying that this damage is fine


''Warriors – We don’t think Warrior burst is out of control'' Ghostcrawler

What do u mean? ur Lord and Master Gregy boy told us that Warrior burst is fine! how dare u go against his divine will!
I never said that Warrior burst was not fine >.> I just said that the 230K crit you see here is a lot of damage and that we are not implying that this much damage from one skill is fine.
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- CS
90 Blood Elf Mage
6900
If you pop all defenses possible as healer on yourself the thing that a warrior does is switching target and hitting the other person full in the face.

And then you lost a 2v2.

Seriously, taking Avatar down from immune to break-only is not the main issue: The main issue here is that a warrior has the same CC or even better then ranged/caster DPS has and the ability to countercast any given class in close quarters since you cannot escape. They can even just replace Gag order with storm bolt and still keep the same rotation AFTER in 5.1.

I'm honestly disappointed in you and that we need to shoot warrior down if ever possible before getting hit full in the face by something like this.
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90 Tauren Druid
4830
Nakatoir i wish i could talk to you somehow, got skype :p ?, i'd tell you how to solve pvp in 10 min, without effecting Pve,
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
13495
....Please understand that we are in no way saying that this damage is fine, but it does take a lot of work for a Warrior to do this and can be predicted....


Not taking your words out of context here, but a warrior takes a lot of work to get TFB stacks to 5?

That's like doing the lottery and winning, saying it's "a lot of work".

It's RNG, simple as that, and to win games off of the back of RNG and RNG alone, is not something that should have even made it live, seeing as it's an intended mechanic and not a bug that was overshadowed on the Beta.

As we're keeping this to one thread, to prove my point at just how quick a warrior can get 5 stacks of TFB and end a match instantly, watch the following:

>>http://de.twitch.tv/dakkrothwow/b/338084424?t=4h2m35s<<

That fight lasts about 30seconds, maye a little more? So difficult to prevent! So easy to anticipate! Just stop the warrior...
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90 Human Paladin
16190
06/11/2012 17:21Posted by Nakatoir
I never said that Warrior burst was not fine >.> I just said that the 230K crit you see here is a lot of damage and that we are not implying that this much damage from one skill is fine.


Too late to back out now Nak! We got u where we wanted u! Greg aint gonna be happy about this! U better spill the beans on whats his Warrior name, and we may be able to protect u from his divine wrath!
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- CS
90 Blood Elf Mage
6900
We want to combustion Ghostcrawler for rerolling warrior =(
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62 Pandaren Mage
3555
This might sound like a silly question but could you not just change TFB?

220K Crits regardless of the low chance to occur or the skill/lack of skill from anyone just seems a bit silly.
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90 Undead Warlock
6430
Got to love that blue guy, trying to defend this rofl, only a payed person can say. Warrior damage could be nerfed 70% and they would still faceroll people.
Edited by Vaju on 06/11/2012 17:46 GMT
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