Crowd control is out of control.

90 Blood Elf Paladin
12035
08/11/2012 15:08Posted by Madeon
cast times


Are we playing the same game?


Of course not, he's playing world of theorycraft.

Where everything is theoretical and requires no actual gameplay experience to spout theoretical drivel and conjecture
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
10725
ye whoever designed psyfiend , blood fear and instant rov ETC is retarded

cya


Bloodfear drains %10 of HP

even if your at low health you cant cast Fear to get away

the extra trinket is better

cu
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90 Human Paladin
14665
ye whoever designed psyfiend , blood fear and instant rov ETC is retarded

cya


Bloodfear drains %10 of HP

even if your at low health you cant cast Fear to get away

the extra trinket is better

cu


Extra trinket over blood fear? Lol.
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90 Undead Mage
7600
ye whoever designed psyfiend , blood fear and instant rov ETC is retarded

cya


Bloodfear drains %10 of HP

even if your at low health you cant cast Fear to get away

the extra trinket is better

cu

nooooooooooooooooooooooooope
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12415
ye whoever designed psyfiend , blood fear and instant rov ETC is retarded

cya


Bloodfear drains %10 of HP

even if your at low health you cant cast Fear to get away

the extra trinket is better

cu


A fear many times will save your %ss. It being instant and unavoidable has a potential of saving you from what, 50% of your LP ? Even more depending on the case/fear cr ?

10% is nothing, really
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i just want to say that the biggest part about cc chains is mainly still that u can prevent it if u know how, even the instant cc's like scatter>trap u can eat the trap or u can just try los the hunter most of the game preventing him from getting it up in the first place, he would have to overextend to reach out for that cc and then its most likely a viable switch target which can be killed fairly easy, things like this can be seen if payed attention to it. the only cc chain which is really out of proportion atm is the war lockdown on a single player while being able to train someone down, the silences are just too much i agree a silence is needed but really being able to get it all back after using it all once? its just too much for the rest cc chains are fine, its the people that need to learn how to deal with them not blizzard knowing how to nerf them once again so u see meleecleaves training 24/7 since u cant properly cc them anymore.
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90 Gnome Mage
10920
08/11/2012 12:55Posted by Nakatoir
especially when you consider the trade-offs that are involved in their use such as high costs, cooldowns, cast times as well as the focus and communication that is required to maintain a successful CC chain. A key point to make is that we do not feel diminishing returns have been communicated and explained well enough and this is something that we would like to work on.

You should consider working as a stand-up comedian. Kidding aside.

High cost? What? When? Where?

Cooldown? Right...people can chain CC you for 30 sec every one minute. That's a long CD...oh wait. Fear, cyclone, poly. Some of the most porminant CCs, they sure have a long CD, huh?

Cast times? Blood fear sure does have a long cast time huh? Oh and indtimidating shout, mighty bash, blinding light, blind etc. I see your point .......

Im sorry, but it's hard not to be sarcastic when the respons from Blizz is as terrible as this. You have a very good point with breaking CC chains, however this requires MUCH more comm than setting up the chain. Stunning the pala for a few sec, just at the perfect time so that pala don't continue with a blinding light on our healing, and hoping the other CCer isn't rdy to follow up with another of the 4-5 CCs that most classes have these days.

Personally I feel almost all CCs should be on the same DR. It doesnt make sense in my mind that poly, fear and cyclone are on different DRs. Stuns should have their own, silences their own, all other should share. and ALL CC should have have big 1min+ CD or have a cast time.

Tyvm
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Community
08/11/2012 15:08Posted by Madeon
cast times


Are we playing the same game?
One would assume so. World of Warcraft, right? :O

Even if you consider the spells that are instant, you can still interrupt CC chains through the use of your own CC, as well as blanket silences.

When the rest of us are talking about overpowered unstoppable CC we're talking about something like this baby:

Fist of Justice
Mighty Bash whoever is close to pala and Repetance
Blinding Light
Instant cyclone
NS cyclone
You can counter this chain with CC of your own on either the Druid or Paladin. Using your own tactics to counter your opponent is something that you should be doing, be it through retaliating with pressure when their focus is elsewhere or performing counter-CC.

Sure there is a fair amount of crowd control and yes dispels now have an 8 second cooldown, this does not mean that all is lost and you will spend every game just sitting in CC. You have to take a step back and understand that the meta game has changed, bring new strategies to the table and evolve the style of play. You do not have to be set in your ways and never change, I am hoping to see even more new styles of play and strategies appearing in the future and am excited to start seeing players using those more. Pretty sure we will get to see a lot of this in the Battle.Net World Championship. :D
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90 Goblin Warrior
10355
08/11/2012 15:54Posted by Nakatoir
Pretty sure we will get to see a lot of this in the Battle.Net World Championship. :D


I'm pretty sure we'll see something god-awful, a result of one of the dumbest decisions in eSports history, to have the Regionals played on a different expansion to the Finals.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12415
08/11/2012 15:52Posted by Basbo
Personally I feel almost all CCs should be on the same DR. It doesnt make sense in my mind that poly, fear and cyclone are on different DRs. Stuns should have their own, silences their own, all other should share. and ALL CC should have have big 1min+ CD or have a cast time.
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90 Gnome Mage
10920
Btw, OP, I like the wordplay of the post. thumbs up
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90 Human Paladin
14665
Sure there is a fair amount of crowd control and yes dispels now have an 8 second cooldown, this does not mean that all is lost and you will spend every game just sitting in CC. more.

It really does and the best thing for the game right now would be to revert the CD on dispel because right now it's exactly fun when you face a Shadow Priest team and you have to dispel Fears and you can only get one. It's not fun and it's to be honest just frustrating to play with it. I can understand where you come from when you say "think before you dispel" but it really doesn't work like that. If there wasn't so many Fears I could handle it but AoE CC like the Priest Fear kinda counters dispels. With Mages it works because you took out Novas but Fears you didn't touch and you added more of them instead.

For Shamans the new dispel system is great since it's just a buff to them with a 30 second CD on Tremor & getting a Freedom for Novas but for other classes like Paladins and Druids this new system is horrific. Discs also have Fear Ward but none plays Disc so it doesn't matter.

They should really reconsider this system and maybe go back to the old one because it doesn't work, just put a huge mana cost on the dispel as no healer ooms nowadays anywya.

08/11/2012 15:54Posted by Nakatoir
Pretty sure we will get to see a lot of this in the Battle.Net World Championship. :D


You'll see top players trying to learn new classes, for example I've been facing Another playing his Mage again because Ret DK Priest doesn't work in MoP and Zunniyaki has gone Shadow because Disc is garbage.

Yay.
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81 Orc Hunter
1195
It really does and the best thing for the game right now would be to revert the CD on dispel because right now it's exactly fun when you face a Shadow Priest team and you have to dispel Fears and you can only get one. It's not fun and it's to be honest just frustrating to play with it. I can understand where you come from when you say "think before you dispel" but it really doesn't work like that. If there wasn't so many Fears I could handle it but AoE CC like the Priest Fear kinda counters dispels. With Mages it works because you took out Novas but Fears you didn't touch and you added more of them instead.

For Shamans the new dispel system is great since it's just a buff to them with a 30 second CD on Tremor & getting a Freedom for Novas but for other classes like Paladins and Druids this new system is horrific. Discs also have Fear Ward but none plays Disc so it doesn't matter.

They should really reconsider this system and maybe go back to the old one because it doesn't work, just put a huge mana cost on the dispel as no healer ooms nowadays anywya.


Agree, the new dispel system just doesn't work. Having cd reverted would make sense with all the new CC we have atm.

08/11/2012 15:54Posted by Nakatoir
blanket silences.


Those really needs to be removed, they do not promote skillful play. Why should you be rewarded with a blanket silence when you missed using your interrupt?
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90 Pandaren Monk
10120
08/11/2012 15:54Posted by Nakatoir
You have to take a step back and understand that the meta game has changed, bring new strategies to the table and evolve the style of play.


Okay I understand what you're saying, but it's a stupid change, I spend most of my time sitting in CC's and it's ultimately very boring to play.

And when you say "Counter their CC with your CC" yada, so you want us all to have a Mage, Lock or Druid in our team to be successful?
Where then are the traditional Wotlk teams like Hpal DK war going? Where is Thug Cleave going? They have a few stuns, but nowhere near able to match a 30-40 second CC chain, and CCing one person won't work, Mage is Silenced? Okay Warlock blood fears GG, then RoF after that and you dont have an interrupt for it.
Too much CC, I remember when Mages had the CC and that was their forte - was much better like that. but to be honest Cataclysm has CC exactly where is should be, I have no idea why you ever changed it.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
14370
I believe no instant CC should be longer then 4 seconds.
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90 Human Paladin
16190
08/11/2012 15:54Posted by Nakatoir
Even if you consider the spells that are instant, you can still interrupt CC chains through the use of your own CC, as well as blanket silences.


Yeah... I think this is how all the problems got started... Devs thought it would be a awesome idea to counter CC with CC, so now? everyone has a bucketload of it, and as such it makes the game so so bad.

I remember a time when only a few classes could CC, and u had to actually work for it, not just spam it since it has no cd or downside.
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87 Night Elf Druid
4715
08/11/2012 15:54Posted by Nakatoir
Sure there is a fair amount of crowd control and yes dispels now have an 8 second cooldown, this does not mean that all is lost and you will spend every game just sitting in CC.


As long as one single player can lock someone out for up to 20 seconds (with as little as one cast) it will at least feel like you spend every game in CC. Furthermore, calling the introduction of an instant fear ability on a ten second cooldown an evolution in playstyle is ridiculous.

Again, not surprised, but severely disappointed.

Edit: And as Mirion already pointed out, your crappy new dispel system doesn't work because of the halfassed implementation.
Edited by Kerberusx on 08/11/2012 16:23 GMT
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Community
08/11/2012 16:09Posted by Tublat
Those really needs to be removed, they do not promote skillful play. Why should you be rewarded with a blanket silence when you missed using your interrupt?
These are alternate uses of blanket silences, you mess up your interrupt and go "Oh damn, cannot let them cast that — blanket silence". This is fine, it just means that you wasted your interrupt and made a decision to use the blanket silence as well.

Don't forget though, blanket silences can be also be used tactfully. You can use blanket silences to strategically and pre-emptively shut another player down from using their instant cast spells. As with all crowd control, blanket silences have diminishing returns and we also try to give them healthy cooldowns to mellow them out. If you have some examples of skill-less play with silences, we would be glad to hear more about it.

08/11/2012 16:18Posted by Triumvir
I remember a time when only a few classes could CC, and u had to actually work for it, not just spam it since it has no cd or downside.
Some crowd controls have cooldowns and on top of that diminishing returns give them a downside which makes it impossible to recklessly spam because you will just burn out the DR's and your opponent will then be immune for a while.
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