Crowd control is out of control.

90 Worgen Druid
9745
You can counter this chain with CC of your own on either the Druid or Paladin. Using your own tactics to counter your opponent is something that you should be doing, be it through retaliating with pressure when their focus is elsewhere or performing counter-CC.

Sure there is a fair amount of crowd control and yes dispels now have an 8 second cooldown, this does not mean that all is lost and you will spend every game just sitting in CC. You have to take a step back and understand that the meta game has changed, bring new strategies to the table and evolve the style of play. You do not have to be set in your ways and never change, I am hoping to see even more new styles of play and strategies appearing in the future and am excited to start seeing players using those more. Pretty sure we will get to see a lot of this in the Battle.Net World Championship. :D


Ahhh, so the counter to crowd-control is crowd control.

See where this is going?

For a less snarky reply, I'm not dead-set on any tactic. I can't stop this crowd-control because while it's all going on I'm getting nuked to oblivion and my partner is not there to help - and even if I lock one down the main problem is that they just simply have another one to put up even more to bridge the gap. In the chain I just mentioned I didn't even mention the interrupts, the roots, the pillars, the kiting, and so on- but these are all factors which can stop them stopping me from CC'ing.

And it's all instant...
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How about this : If you've been cc'd for 5 sec, you become immune to cc's for 5 sec.
Seems pretty fair to me.


dunno, would probably work better if u add a 2 sec immunity to cc when dispelled so u dont just get cc chained back into it, aint sure just bringing ideas to the table.
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08/11/2012 18:13Posted by Mírion
I reckon most top spell cleave players will tell you that its not all about the cc, its all about the damage.


it's all about damage whenever you can land a full instant CC.

For example Mage & SP comps you play like this.

Deep DPS, silence healer & random CC on the last person at the same time.

It doesn't take a genius to find out it's the way to play it.


No need for the last sentence, not sure if you're trying to make me out as some low rookie?

Sound like we're talking about 2 different situations, I don't count that as a CC chain.
I was talking about the long CC chains that have been mentioned by several people in this thread (fear fear sheep sheep cyclone cyclone etc). Those CC chains are unnecessary, as mage-lock you're much better off spending the time getting some serious pressure from damage rather than trying to line up a perfect CC chain.
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90 Orc Monk
10900
if blizzard really dont want to remove all this isntant cc such as blood fear, pom ring / poly, ns clone / hex then they can atleast increase the CD so it doesnt happen all the time. imo u shouldnt be able to cast off instant cc before each 2min cuz of trinket CD. if u want a kill u gotta work for it not just use instant cc mindlessly
Edited by Soku on 08/11/2012 18:33 GMT
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87 Night Elf Druid
4715
08/11/2012 18:29Posted by Chilava
The argument that 'x or y is a zero time gladiator' is rather flawed. I don't know how Blizzard wants to balance PvP. Is it something that is supposed to be competitive? If so, get feedback from multiglad players. However, if it is something that is supposed to be enjoyable for everyone, the gladiator argument blows. There is an enormous difference in games at 1300, 1600 and 2200 rating, it's totally different games.


To be very clear: I don't usually bash or make fun of others due to their rating and I certainly didn't use it as an argument. But when someone comes in here saying that the others lack PvP knowledge who himself has nothing to show for other than a high rating with a variation of the comp that is known to profit from the current state of crowd control, I will call him or her out on it.
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90 Human Paladin
14665
08/11/2012 18:32Posted by Mýst


it's all about damage whenever you can land a full instant CC.

For example Mage & SP comps you play like this.

Deep DPS, silence healer & random CC on the last person at the same time.

It doesn't take a genius to find out it's the way to play it.


No need for the last sentence, not sure if you're trying to make me out as some low rookie?

Sound like we're talking about 2 different situations, I don't count that as a CC chain.
I was talking about the long CC chains that have been mentioned by several people in this thread (fear fear sheep sheep cyclone cyclone etc). Those CC chains are unnecessary, as mage-lock you're much better off spending the time getting some serious pressure from damage rather than trying to line up a perfect CC chain.


I explained to you how spellcleaves play, you don't cc chain someone for a kill.
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an idea to make cc chains shorter and increase skill on dispells a bit more : cyclone as a magic effect there for dispellable.

please do respond to this idea if u like it or not (again its just an idea)
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[quote="58471002900"]
Or my personal favorite against a caster: Sap (8), sap (4), Sap (2), Cheap shot (5), garrote (4.5), gouge (4), blind (8), sap (8), sap (4), sap (2), kidney shot (6), garrote (4.5), gouge (4). 64 seconds of CC if you're unfortunate enough to have your trinket on CD. Couple that with a class like druid, mage or priest and you can keep someone CC'd forever.
But then again rogue damage is so low that this is all we got at the moment.


gouge -> blind -> full sap? i wish
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90 Night Elf Hunter
12245
Blizz should make the PvP trinket to make you immune to cc for 1-2 secounds.
This will help a little in Arenas and specialy in BGs
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Blizz should make the PvP trinket to make you immune to cc for 1-2 secounds.
This will help a little in Arenas and specialy in BGs


+1 just to avoid rng cc after using trinket.
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81 Orc Hunter
1205
08/11/2012 18:47Posted by Sonicflow
Blizz should make the PvP trinket to make you immune to cc for 1-2 secounds.


No. No more immunities.

Instead get rid of the instant CC, such as bloodfear and revert the dispel cd.
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90 Night Elf Druid
5670
This is my take on CC and defensive dispelling. I may not be right but this is how i feel at the moment.

I came back to wow just before the release of MoP and do not have a very extensive experience of arena in Cata (or wotlk, for that matter). I did however play at gladiator ratings in all of Tbc. Thinking back to that time i really enjoyed playing arena (I still enjoy playing arena today to the same extent today).

Comparing the dispel system back in Tbc and the dispel system on live servers now, I felt like i was able to make a bigger difference dispelling back then. I do agree, however, that dispelling back then was mostly button-mashing and positioning yourself to be able to instantly dispel was probably the most important thing. I think its a good thing that you should have to make decisions about when to dispel and what to dispel.

The thing about the dispelling system today is that you are very limited. 8 seconds of cd is a very long time and in those 8 seconds a lot of things about an arena match can change. Having 1 person get sheep'd and dispelled only to see that another person got sheep'd for 8 seconds right after is a big pain. You should be punished if you just randomly dispel but good dispelling should not come with such a large risk.

The amount of CC has increased quite a bit since i played in Tbc and a lot of CC is now instant cast. The number of CC-breakers has not increased to the same extent though. Dispel is in many cases the only cc-breaking ability and limiting that to once every 8 seconds no matter what, results in more players sitting in more CC for a longer time. Perhaps this is what you want for the game and if so i guess it's fine.

Myself, I feel like even though dispelling in Tbc was perhaps not skillful enough you were never punished for dispelling. With todays dispel system you can easily be quite punished even if the dispel you cast is a good one.

You have removed dispel-spamming but you instead opened up for the possibility to get punished even with a good dispel.

My suggestion would be to give dispel charges. Im not sure about what numbers would be appropriate but lets say you get 1 charge every 6-8 seconds and those charges stack up to 2.

This would make it possible to for example dispel 1 sheep of your warrior friend and at the same time dispel that pesky frost nova from you or your other partner. You would then get 6-8 seconds of cd to your first dispel charge and 6-8 more seconds before you get the second charge.

You would still have to choose when to dispel and when to save your charges but you would be caught less times in those annoying situations where you cant avoid having 1 player cc'd no matter how good you are.

Perhaps this is not the right suggestion but I think it would be interesting to see how it would work out.
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I explained to you how spellcleaves play, you don't cc chain someone for a kill.


Which is what I said in my original post.

08/11/2012 19:00Posted by Weow
Myself, I feel like even though dispelling in Tbc was perhaps not skillful enough you were never punished for dispelling. With todays dispel system you can easily be quite punished even if the dispel you cast is a good one.


Then you haven't been punished for your dispell if it "was a good one", you dispelled the right thing at that moment in time. If you read the game well you can usually make the right call on what to dispell tbh.
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90 Human Paladin
14665

I explained to you how spellcleaves play, you don't cc chain someone for a kill.


Which is what I said in my original post.


Saying it's about damage isn't very accurate is it. It's about landing CC at the perfect time not spamming unhealable damage into someone.
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Which is what I said in my original post.


Saying it's about damage isn't very accurate is it. It's about landing CC at the perfect time not spamming unhealable damage into someone.


It's about both, not one or the other.

Edit: All i meant to convey in my first post is that it's not about 36 second cc chains.
Edited by Mýst on 08/11/2012 19:12 GMT
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90 Dwarf Hunter
4945
An idea for dispells, make it so that you can only dispel each target once every 8 seconds. like when you dispell someone it puts a debuff on them which stops them from being dispelt again in the next 8 seconds.

That way aoe fears/rings (aoe cc's in general) are a lot more manageble whilst keeping the "spaming dispells is bad" mentality.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12035
Instant CCs should be on a bigger cooldown at least.

Basically, CC is not fun in its current form.

I don't mind some CC, that's fine, however the majority of players find CC right now ridiculous, not fun, and just completely frustrating.

Tone it down, that is all
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90 Human Rogue
10655
The problem is that u reduced cc-removement (i.e dispells) but u increased the numbers of CC. Especially stuff like the fear bot is a tad much. When u tone down dispells its a no bainer that u also have to tone down CCs. It is really to much if the average player is to enjoy pvp.

In PVE u cater the cauals alot, but in pvp now u have to be Erwin Rommel to avoid CC chains by half decent players or being 2-3 shot by warriors.
Edited by Sicá on 08/11/2012 19:45 GMT
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