Crowd control is out of control.

90 Human Priest
19015

Playing against 2.4 MP3's .


Why are people calling this comp that suddenly? I could've sworn it was always just Shattreeplay, even though people have been calling it Godcomp since like, this season.
Edited by Tastycupcake on 09/11/2012 13:29 GMT
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90 Night Elf Druid
18460
Nakatoir, even though I enjoy a gm that at least seem to be pvping. You have way too many "no but if you do this you can avoid it". We do not need lessons in how to play against cc. We need some cooldowns extended and stun/silence durations shortened.

Hammer of justice should not be above 4 seconds long.
Strangulate should be lowered too. Hell, i'd be happy if you removed all blanket silences since they promote zerging. Sure, they can be used in a skillful way, but usually you run into someone popping every cd + random blanket silence in hope of zerging you the first few seconds of a fight.

Not to mention with all these silences in the game, how come that almost none of the casterclasses have disarms when all melee have silence?

Let me make one thing clear though, the 8 sec + DR on the real ccs are fine. They really are. However all of these ccs should have casttime or long cooldowns. Blood fear talent is ridiculous in some situations.

Also I have no clue what the hell you were thinking when implementing rain of fire stun. It's the most ridiculous ever in rbg especially with the 500% aoe range increase. It's basically aoe mace stun on a shorter cd and duration. It is not fun to be interrupt 2 spells out of 3 when noone is actually interrupting you. Mace stun was not fun, it was removed for a reason. So should this one.

Edit: Forgot to mention, Blinding light should be brought down to 3 second cc just like dragons breath was. Anything above is just ridiculous.
Edited by Enim on 09/11/2012 13:03 GMT
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09/11/2012 11:31Posted by Enim
Also I have no clue what the hell you were thinking when implementing rain of fire stun. It's the most ridiculous ever in rbg especially with the 500% aoe range increase. It's basically aoe mace stun on a shorter cd and duration. It is not fun to be interrupt 2 spells out of 3 when noone is actually interrupting you. Mace stun was not fun, it was removed for a reason. So should this one.
A quote from the 5.1 patch notes to relieve your concern on that particular matter: "Rain of Fire no longer causes a stun after hitting a target three times."

09/11/2012 11:31Posted by Enim
Nakatoir, even though I enjoy a gm that at least seem to be pvping. You have way too many "no but if you do this you can avoid it". We do not need lessons in how to play against cc. We need some cooldowns extended and stun/silence durations shortened.
I am not trying to tell you how to play nor am I rejecting your arguments and just saying, "your doing it wrong! *Trollface.jpg*". I am offering up thoughts on how you can adapt to or accommodate for the changes to dispels and CC. I have also at no point said that we are not against making changes to CC and the dispel system, simply that we are content with where it is right now and for the moment we don't have any plans to change it.

09/11/2012 00:32Posted by Tublat
Counterspell is one cooldown, if you seriously think blanket silences promote skillful play then you're clueless. No high rated players thinks it promotes skillful play.
On the topic of blanket silences, you’re still only focusing on the concept of a player going for an interrupt and missing so they lock you out fully for (in the case of counterspell) 4 seconds instead of the additional school lockout for 6 seconds. There is the consequence that they have not gotten those extra 2 seconds of school lockout and as such may suffer for it because those 2 seconds can make a world of difference.

You are also neglecting any tactical use of these silences, such as predicting instant CC and spells to counter your opponents play. I do understand what you are saying though, we are listening to your feedback and opinions on this and other topics, so please continue to provide it :)
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90 Tauren Druid
1790
Counterspell is one cooldown, if you seriously think blanket silences promote skillful play then you're clueless. No high rated players thinks it promotes skillful play.
On the topic of blanket silences, you’re still only focusing on the concept of a player going for an interrupt and missing so they lock you out fully for (in the case of counterspell) 4 seconds instead of the additional school lockout for 6 seconds. There is the consequence that they have not gotten those extra 2 seconds of school lockout and as such may suffer for it because those 2 seconds can make a world of difference.

You are also neglecting any tactical use of these silences, such as predicting instant CC and spells to counter your opponents play. I do understand what you are saying though, we are listening to your feedback and opinions on this and other topics, so please continue to provide it :)[/quote]

CS is a really interesting mechanic in this argument. Yes it's been around in the game for a long time however it's always been at the forefront of this argument.

I'd just like to perhaps enhance the argument around it slightly by raising a couple of points:

CS with a blanket is fine when I pace of the games are much slower, for example in 2v2 where it's very hard to just blow someone up as most good 2v2 games tend to revolve around teams swapping 1v2 situations through CC. Yes I know the game isn't balanced around 2v2 but no example of a 'slow paced' game springs to mind in 3v3 except maybe if you're unluck yenough to queue into a double healer team (I've seen several so far with warriors).

Anyway my point is that extra 2 seconds you'd get from a 'hard' CS is not really that game breaking when compared to a 4 second blanket. A mage can cast a frost bomb, CS the healer, deep and blow up the frost bomb within that 4 seconds. That's a serious amount of pressure and of which the healer can do nothing to negate other than relying on his partner to peel or pop a defensive.

Playing my comp we can land a kill on pretty much every healer by simply fearing them off the pillar, deeping them and just chaining a blanket CS -> Silence -> Bash and if they don't die in that they eat a cyclone so they can't top themselves and we switch to a DPS so the healer struggles to top both putting them seriously behind.
What's so bad about that CC chain you ask, based on Nakatoir's argument of us sacrificing DPS to accomplish that we shouldn't be able to kill the healer...not true! Both Physic Scream, CS, Silence and bash are all instant and require very little setup to achieve.

Mages have actually fallen in terms of representation this season (mainly because RMP is broken) but if you look at the top rated classes there is a direct correlation between those that have a large amount of instants and those which don't!

Monks for example are crazy easy to CC with next to no breakers. Not only do they have to channel a lot to get heals of but they're also very easy to chain once you catch them in a bad place. Half the reason there arena representation is so low.

Warriors are high not only because of there damage but because they have a crazy amount of utility in the form of peels and CC. Yes you're addressing that but I still thing you need to tone down other classes as well.

Blood Fear for one needs a much larger % of health as a sacrifice. In it's current state you can eat a full instant fear of which there is 0 way to avoid other than a ward, get feared on a bad path and by the time you make it back to your team the CDs off again and you're heading to Africa once again, nothing you can do to prevent it.

To summaries the reason people hate instant CC is not because they dislike being CCed it's because they have no way to avoid it. Simple as that. It's not rewarding to play a game really well but loose to something that was completely unavoidable.

I like how there is more CC in the game as it brings a much more diversity to the ladders in terms of comps and I agree with you that CC as a whole is in a good place. What I hate and many top players hate is the fact it's very hard/impossible to avoid a lot of it.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
14770
It's funny that people can't understand the concept of "Meta".
The PvP Meta has shifted a bit. Big deal. Learn to adapt instead of crying for the old meta-game.
There will always be something that works better than something else in both PvP and PvE, learning to adapt to it and work in the new environment will yield better results than complaining about how you don't like the new meta.
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90 Tauren Druid
1790
It's funny that people can't understand the concept of "Meta".
The PvP Meta has shifted a bit. Big deal. Learn to adapt instead of crying for the old meta-game.
There will always be something that works better than something else in both PvP and PvE, learning to adapt to it and work in the new environment will yield better results than complaining about how you don't like the new meta.


This argument has little to do with meta. Meta revolves more around slow/fast games.

Currently we're seeing very fast games. People are popping offensives early meaning defensive's are going early. The longer the game lasts the more likely someone will get blown up. Simple.

I think it's actually more fun, more WoTLK style. Pop defensive's on switches to avoid damage instead of Cata style which was to use defensive's to avoid dying. The current meta is all about pressure as once you loose momentum it's hard to top and swing it back around. That's the difference between a good and a bad team.

CC is a sub level of the meta. Meta arguments are based on taking all the variable such as RNG, CC and crits out the game. It's PvP taken right down to it's most basic. Imagine 3 people simply doing PvE rotations on each other and watching the outcome, that's probably the best way to imagine a meta level of PvP.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9785
Resto druid with warrior symbiosis vs feral druid:

Hibernate, cyclone, fear, roots, mighty bash

he can solo CC that feral :D


And what will the feral do?
Shift out of Cat/Whatever form he is in to avoid Hibernate.
Instant heals -> Huge DMG.
Stuns, Maim, Mighty Bash (If choosed talent)
Roots -> Shift out and in.
Edited by Härskarinnan on 09/11/2012 13:52 GMT
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90 Draenei Shaman
9105
No way, as much dps as a rogue do i find it fair even though i dont have so much crowd controls.
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81 Orc Hunter
1195
09/11/2012 13:16Posted by Nakatoir
. There is the consequence that they have not gotten those extra 2 seconds of school lockout and as such may suffer for it because those 2 seconds can make a world of difference.


It's nothing compared to the blanket silence, because when your school is locked out you can still do something! Peel with poly, do dmg with shadow, heal.. etc

But with the blanket silence you can't do anything but stand there and look like an idiot.
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90 Human Paladin
14665
09/11/2012 13:16Posted by Nakatoir
You are also neglecting any tactical use of these silences, such as predicting instant CC and spells to counter your opponents play. I do understand what you are saying though, we are listening to your feedback and opinions on this and other topics, so please continue to provide it :)


I don't disagree that there's tactical use for blankets but there's to many downsides to it and forgiving play for it to be fun or good for the game.

09/11/2012 13:16Posted by Nakatoir
A quote from the 5.1 patch notes to relieve your concern on that particular matter: "Rain of Fire no longer causes a stun after hitting a target three times."


The actual quote should be "Rain of Fire no longer stuns" though, having to stack Destro Warlocks in RBGs to you can protect the flag from being capped isn't exactly what I call fun since they're useless outside of it.

09/11/2012 13:16Posted by Nakatoir
I have also at no point said that we are not against making changes to CC and the dispel system, simply that we are content with where it is right now and for the moment we don't have any plans to change it.


I've already given my thoughts on this and a solution which I think could make it more fun or as someone else posted that you've got 1 dispel per teammate to use both with 8 second CD. I do not know how that would work but yeah I guess that would be up to the devs, an easier soluton would probably be to just add 2 charges to the dispel button like you've done with Hand of Freedom & the talent Clemency.
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90 Human Rogue
5350
If you take blanket silence from mage and warlock their damage needs to be increased to compensate the change
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90 Human Paladin
14665
09/11/2012 15:55Posted by Induktio
If you take blanket silence from mage and warlock their damage needs to be increased to compensate the change


Not at all. Instead they should fix Warlock CS and they're fine both of them. That's what's so stupid right now, Mages can kill ALL healers in a Deep -> Blanket and it's broken because of the blanket.
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90 Orc Shaman
8640
The blue answers in this thread regarding the CC prove that you blue guys just have absolutely no idea about “your” game.

There are too many ways of CC (especially instant) in the game right now that's a fact. Do you know whats interesting about facts? It does not matter what's your opinion. If you believe the earth is a disk … it would not make the earth a disk.

Same with CC. It's out of control right now, no matter what you think!

Same with (burst) damage as I could read in another thread. Players die (from 100% to 0) within one or two seconds way too often in Arena. Beside the high damage it is CC which makes this happen. The target or the healer just can't act while they are stunned.

Start playing your game and stop writing stuff that's not true! I can't eat as much as I want to puke when I read !@#$ like this.
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81 Orc Hunter
1195
09/11/2012 15:55Posted by Induktio
If you take blanket silence from mage and warlock their damage needs to be increased to compensate the change


Uhh.. no? Mages & Warlocks would be fine.

09/11/2012 16:06Posted by Mírion
If you take blanket silence from mage and warlock their damage needs to be increased to compensate the change


Not at all. Instead they should fix Warlock CS and they're fine both of them. That's what's so stupid right now, Mages can kill ALL healers in a Deep -> Blanket and it's broken because of the blanket.


Pretty much this.
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90 Goblin Warrior
10355
I'm not joking when I say I've done Arena with a CM/Dev before, back when the TR first ever came out, there was an "event" type thing on the TR and for like the first day there were Devs playing, all of them were in a guild called <Blizzard>.

I did 3s with a guy who had a trinket named after him.

Timbal's Focusing Crystal

http://www.wowwiki.com/Timbal

To be fair, it was pretty clear he hasn't ever really done Arena before :| It was pretty fun though.
Edited by Rasen on 09/11/2012 17:01 GMT
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87 Night Elf Druid
4715
I'm not joking when I say I've done Arena with a CM/Dev before, back when the TR first ever came out, there was an "event" type thing on the TR and for like the first day there were Devs playing, all of them were in a guild called <Blizzard>.

I did 3s with a guy who had a trinket named after him.

Timbal's Focusing Crystal

http://www.wowwiki.com/Timbal

To be fair, it was pretty clear he hasn't ever really done Arena before :| It was pretty fun though.


First TR, good times..
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90 Human Paladin
9850
I think all CCs with 8 sec base duration should share DR with itself so thats Fear, Psychic Scream, Polymorph, Repent, Intimidating Shout, Frost Trap, etc.

All stuns should share DR aswell and CCs with less duration than 8 sec sharing DR with themselves aswell, like Blinding Light, Cyclone, gouge etc.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
2260
One of the main problems with fear I find, apart from the randomness of the running out of position, is the threshold of damage that is needed to break it, I can still get half my HP knocked off while I am still feared.

I can trap someone and the tiniest bit off damage will release that person, not so with fear.

Having a Warlock and a Spriest on the same team means your team can be blanket feared for the whole of the game without doing a shred of damage
Edited by Xhali on 09/11/2012 17:54 GMT
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