Is it time for DPS to stop actually healing

90 Draenei Shaman
13965
15/11/2012 20:35Posted by Tavil
I dont think removing PvP power scaling is right thing to do. Nerf the healing spells for the classes that need the nerf. Not all hybrid healing is out of control.


i've been saying quit a lot blizz needs to fix more specificly
Reply Quote
87 Undead Death Knight
8975
Definately agree, blizzard needs to look at self healing on a case by case basis. Ret doesn't need healing nerfs, their mechanics already limit selfhealing significantly (except holy avenger healing, which needs a fix). Spriests need a healing nerf, but eles are barely viable even without one, and definately need something in return.
The mechanic of selfhealing is fine, theres no real difference between silencing a 40k damage frostbolt or casting a 40k healing flashheal on yourself after being hit by one or popping a 40% damage reduction cooldown before being hit by a 100k damage attack in terms of damage reduction. The problem is when a class is hard to bring down already, AND can CC, and then just heal many times in a row until they're health is full during that CC. Like shadowpriests can.
Edited by Vengerz on 15/11/2012 21:02 GMT
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Druid
9745
There are way too many people in this thread who just see "Omg my healing numbers will go down" and don't look at the whole picture... It's quite frustrating to see.

Try to look at the bigger picture for once. Can you not see that removing PvP Power +healing is a good change? Can you not see that hybrid healing is scaling too fast compared to normal healing?

Yes, there is definitely a good reason to go in on a case-by-case basis and buffing hybrid heals as necessary after this change. I won't deny that, but whether we go in and keep PvP Power +healing and nerf individual heals or remove PvP Power +healing and buff individual heals is not actually relevant as a "right now" discussion. The result is the same.

Try to project the current trend into the future and take a look at what happens. If +healing on PvP Power is not removed it will scale out of hand again and they have to nerf it again. Anyone remembers Mage Mastery in Cataclysm? Do we really want that?
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Shaman
13965
Ishaye

what you're suggesting is basicly this:

split the PvP power into healing and DPS depending on spec and then buff all hybrid class' healing, except shadowpriest...

thát will end in the same result

at least for now it does, i agree that it might not be perfect on the long run, but then blizzard should announce to buff the offspec heals for a number of classes in the same time so they prevent topics like this! >.<

next to that, other "fixes" they still go way too wide, so yea, they still need to fix more specificly!
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Death Knight
0
I hope you will nuke a monks. Because their mobility is insane. I grip him to me, he rolls out 80 yards, then he port back, then he rolls out, what is this...
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Druid
9745
Ishaye

what you're suggesting is basicly this:

split the PvP power into healing and DPS depending on spec and then buff all hybrid class' healing, except shadowpriest...

thát will end in the same result

at least for now it does, i agree that it might not be perfect on the long run, but then blizzard should announce to buff the offspec heals for a number of classes in the same time so they prevent topics like this! >.<

next to that, other "fixes" they still go way too wide, so yea, they still need to fix more specificly!


Precisely it ends in the same result, but the scaling is lower so we don't have to nerf them later down the road. It also ensures that hybrid healing in PvE won't be completely and utterly useless down the line because it's been nerfed so many times for PvP purposes that it's completely unusable.

Another thing I'm also suggesting, which you seem to have missed, is that I don't want PvP Power +healing to exist AT ALL and I want PvP Power +damage to apply to healers also. This is because resil counters +damage, but nothing counters +healing. I want healers who can place a well-placed burst right between the eyes of an opponent and finish the game. It raises the skillcap significantly and it's just plain fun - especially for the healer.

I recognize there is no way to remove PvP Power +healing from healers and expect them to gear/gem for it, which is naturally a big concern. Therefore I am willing to accept that PvP Power +healing be nerfed progessively for healers with blanket nerfs, but I don't like it and I hope there is a better solution to this problem that will occur to either Blizzard or myself down the line.
Edited by Ishaye on 15/11/2012 21:29 GMT
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Shaman
13965
15/11/2012 21:24Posted by Ishaye
Another thing I'm also suggesting, which you seem to have missed, is that I don't want PvP Power +healing to exist AT ALL and I want PvP Power +damage to apply to healers also. This is because resil counters +damage, but nothing counters +healing. I want healers who can place a well-placed burst right between the eyes of an opponent and finish the game. It raises the skillcap significantly and it's just plain fun - especially for the healer.


i'm sorry, but you mean you want all the healers to be like resto druids now..??
(have a better burst then their actual DPS spec >.<)
cause, that's sort of what you're suggesting here :/
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
12440
I hope this is just a bad joke. Divine Protection, 20% less damage on a 60sec cooldon can hardly be called a defensive mechanism. Divine shield is a good ability, but 5 min cooldown? c'mon. You can't use Lay on Hands in the arena, nor can you use Hand of protection if you used Divine Shield.

So basically you say that we have a nice array of defensive spells in the arena: 8 sec immunity on 5 min CD (instantly removable by Priests, Druids, Warriors), and 20% less damage on an 1 min CD. WoW. You are a PvP hero.
I am not commenting on how great, useful or even terrible certain defensive abilities are, I am simply stating that there are additional defensive abilities available other than healing. Lay on Hands was more referring to the array of defensive abilities that are available, not that it is usable in arena specifically. I did also state that there are abilities that I have not yet mentioned, such as defensive CC as well as escape abilities that can help you get away, like Hand of Freedom and the first tier talent.

15/11/2012 14:21Posted by Thrasius
And we have 20-25k healings after the patch goes live.
Woah ...wait, what? This is in what patch notes now?
As I already said, this is a change we are considering and is not in any way definite or final. So continue to give your feedback on off-spec healers and possible changes, we are listening to it :)

Don't try to be funny, our heals are gonna be 20-25k each (FoL, WoG, Holy Prism etc)and it's pretty obvious what he meant. And the thing about defensive abilities, you can't chain those meaning in reality you're stuck with hand of protection first, then 1 min after bubble. Or bubble right away. Having 40% magic dmg reduction for 10sec every 60sec isnt something good, and it can be dispelled by many classes.
And as a last question, what does a 30k heal do against the massive burst in game atm? All I'm saying is, nerfing off-spec healing across the board won't do any good. Instead, balance the healing output spec by spec.
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
16190
15/11/2012 20:35Posted by Tavil
I dont think removing PvP power scaling is right thing to do. Nerf the healing spells for the classes that need the nerf. Not all hybrid healing is out of control.


I fear that there is no arguing w/ em, they have their own thing, just want money and dont give two hoots about what is balanced and what is not.

Melee hybrids are getting punished because Blizz Devs could not balance the casters, mega lazy and it speaks in volumes of how the company runs things.

Might be a good time some ppl got replaced w/ fresh ppl and fresh ideas, idk, just a thought as a customer who has been paying for WoW for nearly 8yrs.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
10575
We completely agree that it is very frustrating for dedicated healers to find that off-spec healing is actually quite competitive with their own.

Maybe you should look on crowd control for healers... Its very frustrating for dedicated dps to find that healing spec is actually quite more competitive in crowd control.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Shaman
13965
a holy paladin can effectivly keep you at bay for quite some time
which is really annoying...
Reply Quote
90 Troll Shaman
10895
15/11/2012 12:00Posted by Shígure
oh and when are you nerfing the best hot ingame aka second wind? you know the triple recuparate strenght that you deemed to strong?
This, 100 times more.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
11955
15/11/2012 20:55Posted by Vengerz
blizzard needs to look at self healing on a case by case basis

This all day long. Making sweeping changes to all hybrid healing will destroy certain class/spec combinations.

It needs to be thoroughly analysed before deciding 'lets just remove healing bonuses from hybrids full stop'. Certain classes self healing is insane, others just plain aren't.
Reply Quote
90 Gnome Warlock
3350
Ret healing is ridicilous and should be nerfed asap. They can kite dps forever in arena with ridicilous offheals constantly keep himself up, while globaling someone randomly every 2-3 minutes. Its not even fun and should be fixed asap.
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
10000
15/11/2012 13:57Posted by Nakatoir


So, all Paladins are off spec healers no?

Guess it does not matter, Ret was made with one defensive mechanism, healing, after that gets nerfed (And lol, Ret healing is nerf worthy?) not a single person will play Ret, so I would like to congratulate u for destroying Ret.
I was referring to Retribution Paladins in my post specifically and as they have the ability to assist their entire team with healing on-demand through the use of their abilities, they are able to off-heal. I will edit my first post to specify Retribution Paladins for you. :)

It is also not entirely true that healing is the only defensive ability that you have, Paladins also have as I am sure your aware, Divine Shield, Divine Protection, Hand of Protection, Lay on hands and also while weaker if this change occurs, heals. There are other abilities in the Pally arsenal that can be used defensively as well, so stating that heals is the only way a Paladin has to protect themselves and others is not entirely true. Do remember that you would still have your heals, while weaker they could still help in keeping both you and your team alive.

Understand that this is also not a definite change, it is simply something that we are considering to deal with the high healing numbers that are seen from some off-spec healers. We greatly welcome your feedback and thoughts on this, so please continue to provide it.


You do realise that you guys have designed Ret Paladins to be off-healers. You only need to look at the talent choices/glyphs available.

In an Arena environment: Bubble is dispellable by 2 classes, Divine Prot. is good against casters and to a lesser extent melee if glyphed, Hand of Protection is fully dispellable by at least 4 classes and Lay on Hands doesn't work in Arena, soon to be Rated Battlegrounds as well. Selfless Healer stacks are also dispellable.

If you plan on going through with this change you at least need to make Selfless Healer undispellable because WoG alone won't suffice with the amount of damage certain classes, which I'm sure you are already aware of by now given the amount of threads on this forum, are able to pull off.

Ret's niche is off-healing. That's how they peel and that's how they'll always peel if you keep designing the spec like you are now and during Cata. Don't ruin that for the sake of the caster Hybrid healers who have the mana to stand and spam heals for a while with relatively low mana issues, and in doing so they don't lose all that much pressure.

Just my 2 cents.

15/11/2012 22:37Posted by Mokotiti
Ret healing is ridicilous and should be nerfed asap. They can kite dps forever in arena with ridicilous offheals constantly keep himself up, while globaling someone randomly every 2-3 minutes. Its not even fun and should be fixed asap.


You're playing Demo. Not to be rude but please don't sit there and say Rets have too much healing while being able to global someone. As a class without ACTUAL healing spells you have too much healing as well. Oh and fyi - Chaos Wave is enough to global someone.
Edited by Jmcscøtx on 15/11/2012 22:47 GMT
Reply Quote
healing was buffed at 85 before MoP, because it would be balanced at 90... how about reverting that back?
and Paladin heals should be nerfed, as they are healing to full in 3 heals while under godbubble.
please give some negatives to that spell, we cant stop them healing, can't CC them, yet they can hit us and heal?
Reply Quote
2 Goblin Hunter
0
agree rets have to much healing but the pvp power chance is not the way to do it its crippling healing classes and make pure dps classes stronger,
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
10000
healing was buffed at 85 before MoP, because it would be balanced at 90... how about reverting that back?
and Paladin heals should be nerfed, as they are healing to full in 3 heals while under godbubble.
please give some negatives to that spell, we cant stop them healing, can't CC them, yet they can hit us and heal?


You do realise that only Holy Paladins can heal to full in 3 heals. Rets deal 50% less damage during it.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
12440
15/11/2012 22:37Posted by Mokotiti
Ret healing is ridicilous and should be nerfed asap. They can kite dps forever in arena with ridicilous offheals constantly keep himself up, while globaling someone randomly every 2-3 minutes. Its not even fun and should be fixed asap.

Oh god my sides! Demo lock crying about ret healing+damage. I would put into words how stupid your post was, but I think that would earn me a forum holiday.

Edit: Didn't see the BM hunter posting about unfair advantages, I think I broke some ribs.
Deterence>Lynx rush>immune against damage while your pets hit stuff.
Edited by Nìcky on 15/11/2012 22:57 GMT
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
11955
15/11/2012 22:37Posted by Mokotiti
Ret healing is ridicilous and should be nerfed asap. They can kite dps forever in arena with ridicilous offheals constantly keep himself up, while globaling someone randomly every 2-3 minutes. Its not even fun and should be fixed asap.

Yeah you're right, we should just sit down and die without cooldowns.

We sacrifice damage for the little healing we do, and to be quite frank, if you cannot kill a ret paladin through his healing, which requires the paladin to not be CC'd IE running around in the many fears you have, then something is seriously wrong with you and you need to reroll.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]