Daily Random dungeons

85 Night Elf Death Knight
13180
During cataclysm the dungeon system was changed to allow players to queue for dungeons/heroics, so that the first seven times we cleared it we got the extra rewards. Allowing players that don’t have enough time to log on each day to queue and knock them all out over a weekend etc.

Why was this removed in MoP?
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You now get Valor with every run, with a bonus for the first of the day. It's similar to the rested XP bonus while leveling up. We wanted a better catch up mechanism. More folks did dungeons/heroics when we had one a day than seven a week. The latter felt too much like a job.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
9370
and yet the amount of daily quests is insane! why is that? to hide your lack of lvl 90 content?? just curious.
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1 Troll Warrior
0
02/11/2012 16:44Posted by Pándemonium
and yet the amount of daily quests is insane! why is that? to hide your lack of lvl 90 content?? just curious.

As stated numerous times already you don't have to do them.
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90 Human Death Knight
12935
02/11/2012 16:00Posted by Takralus
You now get Valor with every run, with a bonus for the first of the day. It's similar to the rested XP bonus while leveling up. We wanted a better catch up mechanism. More folks did dungeons/heroics when we had one a day than seven a week. The latter felt too much like a job.
The amount of players running heroics doesn't necessarily equate to a better design for capping VP. It might simply have been the quality of dungeons and/or the ease of accessing LFR+normal/heroic raid to cap VP.

I had to spam heroics on wednesday to buy an item. Couldn't you make it so the first 7 heroics that week will grant extra VP bonus and after will be back down to 40 or whatever it is?
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02/11/2012 16:00Posted by Takralus
You now get Valor with every run, with a bonus for the first of the day. It's similar to the rested XP bonus while leveling up. We wanted a better catch up mechanism. More folks did dungeons/heroics when we had one a day than seven a week. The latter felt too much like a job.


I feel exactly the other way around. When I get home at 7 p.m. from my real job, I got to log in for my second one, to not lose that arbitrary "rested" bonus.

I must say, I vastly preferred Cataclysms system for capping valor points. That way I could log in when I actually felt like doing some heroics and get it done in one or two goes. Now what I get is the feeling that big daddy Blizzard is making me do my daily chores.

I am actually musing if I'll renew my suscription when the annual pass runs out, because this daily grind Blizzard is forcing on us is sapping my long-time motivation. And that is pretty sad, since many other parts of the expansion are great. But I hate being forced into "showing up for work" every day for a free-time activity.

I think Blizzard should overthink their current system. I get that people were complaining that they had too little to do (although I personally wasn't lacking for fun stuff to do in the latter part of Cataclysm), but I think that the developers took the exact wrong lesson and have implemented the same boring grind from Burning Crusade, only now with double the work per day.
Edited by Sîmbul on 02/11/2012 17:30 GMT
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90 Orc Death Knight
14425
To cap the VP for week you can do 4 runs a day for 5 days and you wil hit the cap you don't need to do daily's at all if you want you weekly VP cap. But i do agree on the part that how we caped cata vp then mop for some people that dont have the time to do 4 run after getting home from work and doing raids after it most of them dont even have the power to sit behaind the pc and play most of them go offline right after their raid and the other days that they have the time the new system looks boring and overwhelming. What i mean is after the first bonos that is 80Vp we got to do at least 23 HC runs to cap the Vp and if we got only 1 day off week who going to spend it doing HC's for 24 times.

I think the way we could VP cap from HC should have remained the same as the way it was in Cata if players looking for something to do there is enough stuff to do like daily's, pet battleing, LFR, PvP and more. I dont see players jumping in doing HC's just because they got nothing to do even if they do they get bored and stop some day since honestly who like to kill same stuff over and over and over.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12140
I was more of a fan of the old system myself, I really liked doing a bunch of heroics in one go or spreading them out over the course of the week as I preferred.
Although, I think I'd be much happier if we got a bunch of JP from random heroics once we were valour capped, as opposed to the nothing we get currently. ^^

It feels pretty difficult to gather JP as it is right now, so that'd definitely help and make heroics feel more rewarding to keep running.
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85 Blood Elf Mage
8175
02/11/2012 16:00Posted by Takralus
You now get Valor with every run, with a bonus for the first of the day. It's similar to the rested XP bonus while leveling up. We wanted a better catch up mechanism. More folks did dungeons/heroics when we had one a day than seven a week. The latter felt too much like a job.


Isn't it the other way around? Having to log in at least once a day to do a dungeon for that extra delicious valor actually is more of a job compared to you being able to log in at a time you want during the week and do several in a row then.
Of course more did heroics when it was once a day for the bonus since even the people who were just there for the bonus had to log in once a day and do it, then maybe getting convinced to do more by a friend or guild mate.

Reverting back to the old system of "daily dungeons" does go against the idea of: "the game shouldn't feel like a job". Before people had a choice of when to do it during the week, whereas they now have to log in once a day to get more of the bonus.
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02/11/2012 16:00Posted by Takralus
. We wanted a better catch up mechanism. More folks did dungeons/heroics when we had one a day than seven a week. The latter felt too much like a job.


I know this is just a copy-paste of Ghostcrawler's Tweet, and I know CM's have the oft-thankless job to basically act like his mouthpieces, but come on.

''You can get the bonus seven times this week, divided over the week as you please''

vs

''You must log in daily to get this bonus, every day of the week, or miss out''

The second is much more restrictive, prevents people from playing with a PuG they meet and like enough to play again with, and makes it a lot harder to catch up.

The 'people did more Heroics when it was daily'-bit is comparing apples and oranges, as the Daily Bonus system was introduced with the LFD tool during Wrath (with new feature shine to it) , while the Weekly Bonus was introduced during Cataclysm.

To use the crab's own words: ''the Wrath AoE zerg-fests'' vs ''WoW Heroics are hard!''

To use the sub-numbers: when WoW was still (somewhat) growing vs TIMBERRRRR!

So, as was pointed out by others in the We Consume Content Too Fast?- Thread, the fact that Blizz collects a lot of player participation data doesn't mean they always interpret that data correctly (*cough* dailies *cough*).

If this is just about stretching out the content - in and by itself understandable, given the themepark model - ''we want to prevent overconsumption of the content this way. While our adult customers may be able to control their playtime, we do have a responsibility towards our more younger customers '' or something would be a better answer, imo.
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90 Undead Warlock
6430
02/11/2012 16:44Posted by Pándemonium
and yet the amount of daily quests is insane! why is that? to hide your lack of lvl 90 content?? just curious.


No one is forcing you do daily quest. If any change is needed, is more level 90 quests around other wow continents.
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90 Night Elf Warrior
11830
Only one question:

Why do I get 80 VP for a daily hero and only 25 VP for one heroic raid boss?

I dont get it. Even killing every raid boss after opening endless spring wont get you to the cap...
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84 Human Paladin
12315
02/11/2012 16:00Posted by Takralus
You now get Valor with every run, with a bonus for the first of the day. It's similar to the rested XP bonus while leveling up. We wanted a better catch up mechanism. More folks did dungeons/heroics when we had one a day than seven a week. The latter felt too much like a job.


Personally I found having to log on every single day if I wanted the VP to do a daily more than a JOB it was a annoying form of torture, being able to choose when do do the weekly heroics was far far better and actually gave you some choice.

The system now is some what like the old one bonus per day over 7 days. Would be nice to be able to choose when to do the 1st 7 heroics with the bonus before doing normal ones with the normal reward.

And bare in mind when you changed to from one a day to 7 per week, a lot of ppl had gotten fedup of heroics and that was an incentive to try an tempt ppl back into doing them, which I say worked.
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90 Pandaren Monk
12305
02/11/2012 16:00Posted by Takralus
You now get Valor with every run, with a bonus for the first of the day


Yeah, up until the cap, which hasn't been increased and instead still sits at 1000 points, right? And we got a maximum cap on top of it.

02/11/2012 16:00Posted by Takralus
We wanted a better catch up mechanism.


And the new system is accomplishing that exactly how? To reach the same cap, I have to run THREE TIMES AS MANY dungeons. You can call that anything, but it sure isn't a catch-up mechanism that works like rested XP.

02/11/2012 16:00Posted by Takralus
More folks did dungeons/heroics when we had one a day than seven a week. The latter felt too much like a job.


People are doing more dungeons now because you drastically reduced the reward per run, nothing else. And thanks to that, people are even more stressed out because rather than being relaxed and expecting something close to FUN, they're trying to do 3 times as many dungeons in the same amount of time. LFD was never the most friendly place to start with, but you've now managed to turn it into something even worse. I mean what are you thinking? You change the system, and OUR real-life schedules just magically adapt to it?

And it felt too much like a job? How could you say that after turning the entire game into World of Chorecraft that requires me to log in each and every day to do my things rather than allowing me to do the same on my own schedule?

If I don't log in every single day and do my chores, I am missing out, and there is absolutely no catch-up mechanism. In fact, I am being penalized for NOT logging in daily and doing those chores by having to do significantly more on the days I do. When it comes to reputation, I have simply lost without having any chance to make up for days where I just didn't feel like doing those silly quests.

Sure, you can say that it felt like a job to have 7 dungeons a week to reach the cap, even less with LFR providing already half of the points for the weekly cap.

But you know what? Back in Cata I was working this "job" 2 nights a week for maybe 3 hours each, and was off for the rest of the week. Maybe "work" a weekend afternoon to do it all in one sitting. Or do the unthinkable and just spread it out over seven days.

I could do my stuff anytime and any way I wanted, without having to worry about losing 2/3 of my paycheck. And I even had time to do questionable things, like Loremaster achievement, fishing, or leveling archaeology - in between having several alts ready for our raiding efforts.

Now I feel bad if I "waste" time doing pet battles or whatver rather than doing my chores.

Maybe I'm just too damn old to be playing this game as it is. I was raised with the principle of doing my chores before having fun, and it's simply impossible to break that habit with the game in it's current state. Moving pixels while constantly thinking "I really should be doing my dailies (be that dungeon or quests) instead" is just not very enjoyable.

Don't know if it's arrogance, or being entirely disconnected from the game, but recent blue posts regarding Chorecraft have made me even more upset about the whole system. I'm paying to work a virtual job. Something is wrong there.
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90 Pandaren Monk
7960
My God.. what is wrong with the lot of you?

Their is currently a weekly cap for valor. How you choose to get it is up to you. Just because there is a daily bonus to valor doesn't mean you can't still farm it to cap in heroics. It's just a bonus. It's taking away nothing by missing out on a day if you choose. Same with not doing dailies. That's because there is a weekly CAP for valor.
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90 Pandaren Monk
12305
My God.. what is wrong with the lot of you?

Their is currently a weekly cap for valor. How you choose to get it is up to you. Just because there is a daily bonus to valor doesn't mean you can't still farm it to cap in heroics. It's just a bonus. It's taking away nothing by missing out on a day if you choose. Same with not doing dailies. That's because there is a weekly CAP for valor.


You're apparently missing the point entirely. For one thing, it requires a quite significant amount of more dungeons per week to reach that cap as it used to, and for another you're being penalized for "farming" those dungeons in one sitting rather than logging in each and every day and using this oh so wonderful "bonus".

First 7 dungeons a week would give 150 valor points each. Completing both halfs of LFR would give 250 valor points each.

Now in the best case you're doing 18 dungeons for the same amount of points, but only if you at least do one per day every day.

If you were to do it on on one day in one sitting, it would require you to do 23 dungeons instead of just 7.

If you figure 20 minutes per dungeon, and about the same time in queue unless you're a tank, that's just an insane amount of time required.

Do yourself a favor and use the parental controls to limit your playtime to 2-3 hours a day. Then try to squeeze in your set of daily quests, 2 random dungeons, and enough BG or arena wins to reach the cap there. Then come back and talk about your progress or lack thereof.

How would you like it if your employer was to require you to work three times as much for you to receive the same amount of pay? How about doing so without ever getting a day off?

Chorecraft is currently worse than any freaking job out there.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9835
I used to be so impressed with the "lines" we were being fed, before MoP came out, about how we could choose how to get our valor points. I thought MoP had to be so much fun with you being able to get your points anywhere. There were scenarios, LFR, raids, dailies, challenge modes. There was no way this could go wrong. It would be the best expansion ever.

They just forgot to talk about the restrictions that would be imposed. Forgot to tells us it's no point playing all these modes to get VP if there was nowhere to spend them unless you do the dailies. Forgot to tell us the "quality of real life" wow had grown to allow would be completelly removed. Now I can't play my alts because i will be stopping my main's progress. I can't farm herbs and ore because i will be stopping my progress. I can't do random achievements because i will be stoping my main's progress. I can't even go to work or enjoy an early night to rest because I will be stopping my progress.

Mind you I do all of the above except the actual dailies and the VP capping and for that my HPS is lacking in raids. I don't know how much longer I will be able to be a valuable heroic raider when there are other healers that don't really need to work, and can just spend their days online doing all the stuff that I can't and am not sure I ever would if I am to have a healthy life.

MoP has efectivelly turned the south park episode "Make love not warcraft" from a parody to a documentary.
Edited by Mals on 05/11/2012 16:45 GMT
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1 Blood Elf Mage
0
02/11/2012 16:00Posted by Takralus
You now get Valor with every run, with a bonus for the first of the day. It's similar to the rested XP bonus while leveling up. We wanted a better catch up mechanism. More folks did dungeons/heroics when we had one a day than seven a week. The latter felt too much like a job.


Disagreed, to me it felt like a great opportunity to "catch up" on alt(s) during the weekend when i have ALOT (8 hrs/day) more time to play.
I think alot of people skipped daily quests before since you could so easily farm rep in dungeons. I like the system as it is (for dailies), even considering the fact I don't do all of them on a daily base due to lack of time. But removing the ability to choose when to do the heroic dungeons grind, feels kinda lame for me, and i'm pretty sure some other people who work 5d/w 8hrs/d might feel the same

anyway, that's just how I feel.
Edited by Smileymiley on 05/11/2012 20:49 GMT
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90 Troll Mage
10545
Tbh this expansion's grind is horrible. I liked that I could more or less cap my valor each week by doing the seven runs and especially the fact that I could do them in one day made it possible for me. There is simply no way I can fit in 23-25 runs a week and even if I could I would go insane from the repeats.
Edited by Mara on 05/11/2012 21:26 GMT
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90 Troll Mage
10545
The current blue trend of always mentioning the 5-10% that is heroic raiders don't need to farm is also another sign that they dropped the ball. Since those guys are the ones that have the time to farm where the rest of us dont.
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