I have a dream... (get discipline back to pvp) !

90 Undead Priest
15555
I'm one of those fools that still q arenas as Disc. The reason is simple: shadow is boring and i'm a healer kinda player. I truly can't be bothered playin shadow after so many seasons as disc.
This said i was tryin to take note of any possible thing that might be changed to make disc priest a solid class once again. I devided my ideas in different categories. Here is what i think, hopin you find it intersting and can give your contribution for it:

MANA ISSUES:

After the rapture hot fix and with the upcoming buff on mindbender (1.5 up from 1.3) i honestly don't have any problem managing my mana in arena matches. Notice i stack spirit on blue slot, have spirit/resi on yellow, int/pvp power on red and using int+2% mana as meta. So far i got 9k spirit (i'm BS and JC) plus the proc from the darkmoon trinket (aka 3k spirit with 45 icd). Using mind bender pretty much on cd unless settin up a kill, makes me perfectly fine on mana. Not even using hymn anymore. The problem with this is gear setup is you get really lower pvp power: i'm runnin with current 19% pvp power (yet to get pvp t1). Should be able to drop some spirit gems as soon as gear lvl will be higher and focus bit more on pvp power. I honestly don't think mana on priest needs to be buffed, it's other healers regen that needs to be nerfed (see resto druids or shammies).
Another thing to do should be the revert of inner focus: buff crit and put it back to mana free cost of next spell casted. Also lowering the cd of P.I. would be a good thing, say 1.5 min. but this last one can be discussed better.

SURVIVABILITY AND CC

Here is the worst part. Being a cloth user with very few cds is disgusting: atm pretty much any melee on cds can destroy you, like.. litteraly blow you up. Focused will is a good buff but it won't be enough to grant priests a way out. What can be done ?

1) PoM needs a consistant buff: let's face it, every class but priest got really good instant heals. Priest got nothing. With cds, shammy pala or druid can pick up a target from 10% hp up to full. priest still needs to put off at least 2 casts. This has to be changed. Not askin for a priest version of NS but they should at least considering buffing PoM and renew. Renew ticks for 6k in arena with 17k spell power. that's ridicolous : it's 2x what it did in cata but hp pools are about the double. Almost useless.
2) The change of glyph system should help on this. Having desperation, inner focus and sw:d all base line for disc (for shadow the glyph of sw:d does make sense) would be just fair and won't affect pve at all since those are not chosen for pve anyway. Think of Shammies having aura mastery (lol) or druid able to cast barkskin under ANY condition or iron bark on a lol30 secs cd (if i'm not mistaken). This would allow the disc priest to choose stuff like Glyph of PW:S (used to a must in cata) for extra instant heals. Just fix it so that it doesn't convert absorption but ADD heals to the normal effect.
3) I don't think set bonus needs to change. you have fade with phantas if you wanna run free and tbh the set bonus atm is rather strong.
4) PW:S needs to be undispellable and to balance that u can nerf strenght of soul to 1 sec down from 2. either that or reove glyph of purge. having a retard chasing you spammin purge while warrior is litterally but rapin you ain't fun nor skillful. Either this or make Spirit shell undispellable.
5) Reduce the cd of PS and PW:B to 2 mins
6) You could make Void Tendrils a base line ability with a longer cd. After all all items have some kinda snare/root. Keep in mind priest also doesn't have interrupts what so ever, this would be a good compensation considering we even lost MC and MB.
7)Psyfiend. Increase it's cd to 1 min up from 45 secs, but make it horrify ppl (still dispellable ofc) for half the time. So instead of 8-4-2 make it 4-2-1 but with no dr with psychic scream. Even with a glyph.
8) Divine Aegis : needs to be changed entirely. !@#$ the buff to 50% of crit heals: if anything this will be either purged or will just get games down to rng. Now, considering we run usually with somewhat like 6-7% crit, i'd say it's pretty ridicolous. Just make it create an absorbtion of a certain lower ammount (say 20%) ) and work on everyheal. This way you don't even need to buff other heals which with 4 set bonus are quite fine if you ask me. Maybe just buff penance a little bit
9) throwin it out there: how about bringing back divine hymn ? it was honestly a great spell. My dream is to have the wotlk prechange version of it.. the one that other than improuving heals on targets was stunnin enemies. Loved it.

DMG OUTPUT

Priest has always been chosen for its dps output. Old wotlk rmp was considered to be a 3dps comp. Now, our dmg atm is %^-*in terrible and I guess it's because of attonement and how it affects pve. No need to change it all around tho so u can fix this without rapin pve. How ? simple: if you fix main glyph slots (as i said on survivability part) you have free spots in which you can take glyph of holy fire and glyph of smite. They significantly increase dmg output and game would stay the same. Nobody takes desperation innerfocus or sw:d for pve anyway.

DISPELLS

Once upon a time priest was the best dispeller in game. It could dispell twice off/def. Slowly dispel magic has become everyone's ability with disturbing exceptions like shammies being able to heal while dispel, dispel all curse and magic + 2x dispel offencively while glyphin for it. This has to be changed. Druid and Shammy have a great plus cause being able to dispell curses. How do we give priest something that makes it special without destroyin pve ? Ideas:

1) As Disc, your Purify (def dispel) cd is reduced to 5 secs.
2) As Disc, your MD cd is redused to 8 secs down from 13. Keep in mind before cryin that MD has an insane mana cost (40k) so you can't really spam it. Glyph for faster cast will still be needed but under the condition that the 3 we mentioned already will become base lines for disc.

a good alternative for the point 1 would be having Purify on 2 stacks so that you need to cast it twice before it triggers the cd. Pretty much like warrior charge or freedom talented or Roll from monks. So basically u can stack 2 x dispel and use em in a row. Just an idea, feel free to like it or dislike it.

With this changes priest will make a real come back on the ladders and, overall, on game since nobody is actually playin it apart from some insane multirank1 makin rmp still work. Any suggestion/idea/positive criticism is very welcome.

peace
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90 Human Priest
14740
U raise the concerns smothering my dreams for playing disc at all. My beloved spec ruined into ashes. Let us hibernate till better days....

No seriosly blizz give us some fixes ?? Its not like problems r mystery where to aim them.
Pretty much this post sums it up whats wrong. And when did i drop from best offensive healer into gimped healer with same tools since wotlk. Outside others r getting toys and buffs to do my job even better...
Edited by Huuhailija on 06/11/2012 23:25 GMT
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86 Human Rogue
12585
PW:S needs to be undispellable and to balance that u can nerf strenght of soul to 1 sec down from 2.

agree tbh what's the use of an absorb spec (mitigate) if all their mitigation gets either dispelled or stolen?

06/11/2012 20:45Posted by Hàppypiè
As Disc, your Purify (def dispel) cd is reduced to 5 secs.


should never have been given a cd imo (just imo) but a slight mana cost increase

06/11/2012 20:45Posted by Hàppypiè
our dmg atm is %^-*in terrible


that i dont agree much is pretty much balanced with every other healers dmg xcept from shockadins ofc (but yeah u knoe shockadins)

06/11/2012 20:45Posted by Hàppypiè
set bonus atm is rather strong.


set bonus is amazing idd

06/11/2012 20:45Posted by Hàppypiè
I honestly don't think mana on priest needs to be buffed, it's other healers regen that needs to be nerfed (see resto druids or shammies).


totally disagree healers are supposed to be lastable. at least more lastable than 30 secs which is the ammount of time it takes me to get oomed if i am taking heavy dmg =3
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maybe next expansion, blizzard is imcompetent at balancing !@#$ so just reroll game or class if you want to pvp
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90 Orc Monk
10900
06/11/2012 23:50Posted by Satiini
maybe next expansion


discos turn to be cataclysm's resto druid?

who knows.. or maybe just monks! who knows.. :D
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90 Undead Priest
11880
06/11/2012 23:54Posted by Soku
maybe next expansion


discos turn to be cataclysm's resto druid?

who knows.. or maybe just monks! who knows.. :D


Haha no.. Not even close as good as restoration druids were in Cataclysm. Im a better healer as spriest so changed to shadow after playing disc from tbc.

Doubt that even with those fixes disc would be close to shaman, druid or paladin healing in pvp.
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90 Undead Priest
11880
Oh and the so called buff Blizzard is so kindly decided to bless uss is like a bandage on a bullet wound expect it wasn't bullet that hit us was nerf truck on a highway
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7 Human Priest
0
+1
Love your dispel idea and dmg output thoughts.
Priests lost this after Wotlk.

Personally id like to see, mana burn to make a comback =)
It was a great tool in 2s bracket.
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90 Undead Priest
16070
I like your ideas, they would give back disc priest some of it's niche. I miss the damage dealing part of the spec, that's one of the reasons why I prefered my priest before my shaman in Cata.
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4 Human Warlock
0
06/11/2012 23:50Posted by Satiini
maybe next expansion, blizzard is imcompetent at balancing !@#$ so just reroll game or class if you want to pvp

Do you have any suggestions?
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90 Human Paladin
8825
Let me start by saying I disagree that priests are underpowered. I believe healing wise you are fine just not the fotm healers like you were in cata. Say what you want but in cata part of what made discs so viable was their utility i.e. OP damage mitigation, OP cc, OP dispels, OP damage (compared to ALL other healer classes) and the dreaded MANA BURN.

Now lets break it down how this patch has impacted on viability for discs. Your absorbs are now negligible compared to the burst that occurs when ANY class pops trinkets and CDs. Your cc has effectively received a nerf seeing as theres so dam much of it in game now, for example as a holy pala I can cc chain a trinketless target for about 22 secs with repentance stun blind etc... Dispelling now has a CD associated with it so gone are the days of spam dispelling, whether it was defensively for example in an RBG of offensively in 2s just spamming it on a pala/mage in case they had to bubble/block. Your damage is laughable now as the scale of damage has been completely rewritten and your main offensive ability (MANA BURN) has been removed.

BUT Resto Shamans and Holy palas are crazy overpowered when it comes to outright healing comparisons THIS patch and they need to be nerfed soon. In all honesty though this should be the case as you said you are a damage mitigation class not a "big heals" class.

The problem is arms warriors and frost DKs are disgustingly overpowered. Not just for you my friend but for everyone. I do not need to explain about arms warriors all I will say is Gag Order and 5 STACK TOB + "SWIFTY ONE SHOT MACRO" Frost DKs on the other hand have not received half the qq I would have expected on these forums seeing as they are relentless, can immune fear/stun and with pillar of frost up along with nerco spam and icy touch's dispel when glyphed what chance do you expect to have???

So in answer to this thread no discs do not need a buff at all. Resto shamans and Holy Palas need a nerf! Resto druids need displacer beast to be taken away as it was an awful idea to give them a vanish with a free dispel they aren't a dps trying to reset a fight they are a HoT class that will just sit invis till full, which is total madness seeing as its on such a short CD compared to a Holy palas bubble or a shamans link etc. Also hybrids i.e. spriests, rets and boomkins healing is over the top and needs some serious tuning. BEFORE this can happen though burst needs to be reduced servilely which will not happen as Ghostcrawler said "We don’t think Warrior burst is out of control the way Hunter burst is." clueless devs are clueless

In conclusion, re-roll shaman and lol when people get you to 30% health and you get 100k health from natures guardian. OR reroll Holy Pala and bubble when you see 4+ stacks of ToB and hear "Avatar".
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90 Undead Priest
7455
We have the same dream o.O you been stalking me when i was sleeping??
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90 Troll Druid
9410
I also think Priests are fine, but buffing hots overall would be a good idea. Even my hots as a druid feel almost useless to put up, lifeblooms x3 heal that cool 6k/sec with harmony up, basically just to give clearcasting and the bloomheal is okay. SO I do agree Renew should be buffed (maybe to rejuvenation level?) and some other in the game too, and severely nerf most direct heals.

How's Penace these days btw? haven't really seen it around as I haven't seen so many priests either?

I also agree/disagree at the part that most healers can top off people from 10%, that is true, but not on the druid part unless using swiftmend+NSheal... as in holy paladin can do holy shock+word of glory and that's it... as Swiftmend is 40k uncrit, Regrowth 70k crit (always crits) and with NS+HT it's about 150k heal thanks to +50% from NS.

For survivality part, I think you'll be semi-okay next patch, when most sick things should be nerfed. With some coordination from your partners you should be okay. Don't expect to get to forever-a-paladin -state where you can always sit the middlefield and heal people.

I am personally little conserned about both spec DKs in the future, I believe they will be in best state damage-wise... at least of all melee. They are very strong atm but don't really do well in 3's because they are somewhat squishy to hunter/warrior supernuke.. wich will be changed.

Priest skillcap might be higher than usually, and playstyle little different. I believe what you are seeing too, is a little similiar to what I see in druids in non-control combos. Tonload of awesome tools but no time to utilize them all or someone dies.
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90 Troll Druid
9410
So in answer to this thread no discs do not need a buff at all. Resto shamans and Holy Palas need a nerf! Resto druids need displacer beast to be taken away as it was an awful idea to give them a vanish with a free dispel they aren't a dps trying to reset a fight they are a HoT class that will just sit invis till full, which is total madness seeing as its on such a short CD compared to a Holy palas bubble or a shamans link etc.

Also hybrids i.e. spriests, rets and boomkins healing is over the top and needs some serious tuning.


Replying to my-class-of-expertise -part, Displacer Beast in theory is excellent and OP yes, but I still would take bubble over it any time at all.. because the invisibility is VERY VERY unreliable, it's far worse than the old buggy vanish. It's only good uses are to pre-hot a friend and go back to stealth before hunter/warrior comes and smashes u, cuz they obviously will switch... and to jump towards a pillar and start healing, and get couple free seconds by the jump itself basically getting say swiftmend cooldown closer to the end. But healing to full with hots part is bogus, hots are terrible atm and we'd actually need them before we cast the displacer beast...

And as of boomkin, well, I haven't played boomkin in high boomkin-gear and so on, but I think their healing is exactly what hybrid healing should be (I find SP/Ret healing at least OP, no clue on ele/enha shamans... feral hmm, I kinda like it, okay ways to selfheal and survive but not keep the whole team alive..) I mean, rejuvenation isn't that hard heal but it's something, and then we have only HT... long cast time, mana cost (doesn't matter) and very suspectible to interrupts. Tranquility is most times un-usable, and cenarion ward... well no1 rightfully specs to that. Ofc there is NS instead, wich can make the HT heal over half the HP, but only once/minute. Doesn't seem to OP to me, as boomkins are the underdogs they usually are.. fine when they got CDs and when let to freecast, total awesomeness with those CDs, but outside that locked out period, doomkind to nothing.

Otherwise I agree mostly on your thread :)
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90 Human Paladin
8825
07/11/2012 06:34Posted by Moonwatchér
as in holy paladin can do holy shock+word of glory and that's it...
I wouldn't go that far, with wings and guardian up maybe... but I agree that the actual "healing" done by palas is to much atm. (Resto Shamans too!) But what else do we have? we can't hot/kite or throw shield and run. Please don't get me wrong I'm not trying to justify the imbalance of the game atm just stating how I see things. Also yes
07/11/2012 06:46Posted by Moonwatchér
healing to full with hots part is bogus
I apologize but what I meant was by the time you are out of stealth or get caught you have swift-mend ready to use as-well as getting los (Line of Sight) which as we all know is worth tons vs a dps with cds popped seeing as pillar hugging/kiting as a resto druid is easy compared to disc/pala. Therefore the CD should be longer!

and as of boomkin, well, I haven't played boomkin in high boomkin-gear and so on
Again my apologies I didn't explain very well my main gripe is truely shadow priests, their healing is an absolute joke. 1 fear = spam flash of light x3 and they truely do go from 10% to full. Rets are a close second though! ofc I forgot ele/enh shamans as they fall into the "hybrid" category that can spam heal in time of need. But with Trinket popped a NS Healing touch from a boomkin heals for more than a divine light with wings crit from a Holy pala I think thats abit crazy tbh. The whole Hybrid mentality needs to be shaken off. If you spec into dps you should be dpsing not off healing because a healer is cc'd, but again the fault lies with the devs who decided to give these classes the wrong tools to play with.

Forgot to mention Warriors "Second Wind". This needs serious reworking as its worse than a cata rogue with evasion/recuperate up.
Edited by Orimis on 07/11/2012 07:26 GMT
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85 Undead Priest
8745
Let me start by saying I disagree that priests are underpowered.


Clueless
Edited by Manjbisk on 07/11/2012 07:34 GMT
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90 Human Paladin
8825
07/11/2012 07:32Posted by Manjbisk
Clueless


I'm assuming you are a troll who "cba to read wall of text blah blah blah..."

I go on to say:

BUT Resto Shamans and Holy palas are crazy overpowered when it comes to outright healing comparisons THIS patch and they need to be nerfed soon.


Also you aren't level 90 yet offer your opinion on this matter? I'll keep this short for you then !@#$ & GTFO :)
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85 Undead Priest
8745
I call it as I see it, soz if your feelings got hurt

Basically all the other healers takes a crap on us in every single aspect now? I see, that surely doesn't make us underpowered.

And yes, I do have a 90, and no, it doesn't matter what lvl my avatar is, since it's quite irrelevant.

!@#$ & GTFO :)
Edited by Manjbisk on 07/11/2012 07:55 GMT
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90 Undead Priest
6800
I honestly don't think mana on priest needs to be buffed, it's other healers regen that needs to be nerfed (see resto druids or shammies).


So true. With my druid, I don't even mind about mana. My regen is so good, even if I spam hots I'm very unlikely to have less then 90% mana.
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