Garalon 10 man Normal - Help needed

90 Undead Warlock
7270
Hello everyone

We have a problem with 10man Normal Garalon kill, I really hope someone with kill experience (and just good fight experience) can help take a fresh look on what we are doing wrong with this boss.

We made total 40 wipes on it for last 2-3 days and finally are able to get to enrage (what was considered a great success by our RL).

Our team:
2 tanks (warrior and druid)
3 healers (paladin, druid and shaman)
5 dps (rogue, monk, paladin, warlock and hunter)

Here is the log link for our latest wipes - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-xkfawsvjeszbgqa6/

In our 3 best tries we did manage to reach enrage, but boss was all the time on 21% of his health. We killed 2nd boss in HoF with around 20-30 sec till Enrage, so such drastic change in dps looks very strange, what started me thinking our dps is doing something wrong. But I cant get what is so wrong that we do 420k DPS, instead of 520k DPS, that people with kill have...

We start with hunter taking Pheromones and kiting, while other dps + tanks destroy all 4 legs under BL.
We use 4 kiters and change on 20 stacks (we tried 30 stack and 3 kiters, but healers can't keep everyone up...).
Problem is, that we kill only 2 legs on his right side during the battle, as his left side is always in Pheromone circles and melee can't get into blue circle. We have only 2 range (one is kiting) so killing those legs during battle takes very very long.
We destroy legs as soon as they spawn (quite quick), all other time we are attacking body.
We tried to somehow kill those legs on left side of boss, but just there is no way to get there. Leg circles are right near the wall and those places are always crowded with pheromones...
To finalize, I understand that each dps has to rise his productivity for 20-25% to catch the enrage timer, but I can't understand how can we do so, without damaging those additional legs.
Any advice based on real experience would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance!
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90 Pandaren Hunter
16815
We start with hunter taking Pheromones and kiting, while other dps + tanks destroy all 4 legs under BL.
We use 4 kiters and change on 20 stacks (we tried 30 stack and 3 kiters, but healers can't keep everyone up...).


was exactly how we tried it and like you we were hitting enrage at about 8-10%. Since you are running a heavy melee set up, I would maybe suggest putting the 2 range on the boss ( after initial burn down of legs) full time and have the melee kill 3 legs, when kiting only the front leg should be too hard to hit and maybe have your tanks do that one since they do not need to worry about arrgo or anything and just need to stay in the cleave.

Unfortunately I can not give help on a kill since we didn't get one but we have been tossing ideas about to prepare for next week. The icey vein guide says to keep all 4 legs dead all the time but I do not know how that is possible.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13895
- All DPS burn the initial four legs down, ranged then go on to the body and stay there.
- Melee take down the new legs that spawn, if they need help ONE ranged switched
- Pheremones: tank1, tank2, healer1, ranged1, healer2, ranged2, healer3, ranged1, healer1, etc.

Basically it.
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90 Troll Priest
15370
Sounds like you have largely the right idea, just need to squeeze out a bit more dps. First thing I would do is swap your dps "kiters" with 2 of your healers in the rotation, its not too bad for extra healing pressure as it saves having a healer have to creep out of the group a bit to heal pheromone carrier.

For legs on the left side of Garalon(assuming your kiting clockwise) the front left can be dpsed most of the time by the tanks, rest can leave it and the back left should be killed by the melee dps.

This may have already been hotfixed but rogues can do crazy numbers blade flurrying off a leg and cleaving the boss. If you have the option hunters seem to do abysmal numbers on Garalon so you should swap in a different dps for this fight as its tight enough without someone lagging behind.
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90 Pandaren Hunter
16815
12/11/2012 11:24Posted by Gurdor
If you have the option hunters seem to do abysmal numbers on Garalon so you should swap in a different dps


as much as this hurts, I think he is right :(
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90 Troll Mage
9960
Rotation on pheramones:

tank1, tank 2, rangeddps1, rangeddps2. Repeat

Ranged dps should ONLY go on legs if they move through/past them and they don't have to lose dps from moving into the circle.

Bloodlust on the pull for most optimal dps. Melee kill legs, ranged only kill them as I said above, other than that just burn the boss.

OT: Checked your logs, people just seem to have to do more dps. Just compare your dps to ours: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-m327fc1vk5gvwcbe/analyze/dd/source/?s=6478&e=6872 (post spreading dots/blade flurry nerf) No one in our group focuses on the legs, only damage on legs is multidotting.

I can't check what happened on your logs since it's russian, but purely based on dps numbers people need to squeeze out more dps.
Edited by Dutchmagoz on 12/11/2012 12:33 GMT
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90 Pandaren Hunter
16815
DPSing the legs without being in the circle is pointless, it is not a DPS increase and it will not kill the boss faster.

the boss has 218 million hp

legs have 6.5 million hp

killing a leg will remove 3% of the bosses max hp

218 million * 3% = 6.5 million

People will turn and say but the legs are still dying faster so the bosses hp goes faster...it doesn't if the leg dies cause a ranged outside the circle did 500k damage to it that was 500k less damage he did to the body ( except in the case of multi dotters i suppose)
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90 Undead Warlock
7270
12/11/2012 11:11Posted by Renae
- Pheremones: tank1, tank2, healer1, ranged1, healer2, ranged2, healer3, ranged1, healer1, etc.


Do you mean there are 7 different kiters? Doesn't it make it more complex to switch?
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13895
Nah, it's pretty simple. Start with the two tanks, then they never take it again.

If you take 20-25 stacks, you only need 4 people doing the Pheremones after the tanks have done it (the fifth is for a backup in case the debuff hasn't dropped off the first healer yet).

Healer1 takes 20-25 stacks.
Ranged1 takes 20-25 stacks.
Healer2 takes 20-25 stacks.
Ranged2 takes 20-25 stacks.

If the debuff's dropped (depends how many stacks you take) healer1 takes it again, otherwise healer3 will. In that case, ranged1 will take off healer 3, and then continue like that. It sounds more difficult than it is.
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90 Undead Warlock
7270
12/11/2012 12:29Posted by Dutchmagoz
I can't check what happened on your logs since it's russian, but purely based on dps numbers people need to squeeze out more dps.


I have checked your logs, thank you. DPS is a BIG problem, as we have druid and warrior whos are pulling 25-30k each. Were thinking of speccing tank in fury for additional dps, but healers struggle a lot..

Regarding your dps - it is quite high, but your raid looks around 490 ilvl for me. We have two 484, one 483 and all others 480 and even lower.

As you advise using range dps as a kiter, did you have any problems with boss striking ranged with his aoe? We lose holy pala to this from time to time, guess cloth wearer will die 100%, if he gets caught. And he will eventually, if not on first lap, then on second.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13895
12/11/2012 13:10Posted by Ликандан
As you advise using range dps as a kiter, did you have any problems with boss striking ranged with his aoe? We lose holy pala to this from time to time, guess cloth wearer will die 100%, if he gets caught. And he will eventually, if not on first lap, then on second.


That shouldn't happen; it's just very bad positioning on their behalf. They should always stay far ahead of the boss with the Pheremones.
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90 Undead Warlock
7270
12/11/2012 13:12Posted by Renae
That shouldn't happen; it's just very bad positioning on their behalf. They should always stay far ahead of the boss with the Pheremones.


If we keep at least 3 legs dead, then maybe we can pull this off... How do you start kiting boss?

We first pull him just in front till the stairs and then turn clockwise. Problem arises when you reach left wall. As you make a 90 degree turn, trying to carefully put all the puddles, boss comes very close to the kiter. What you do at that time? Jump away skipping some place for future run? Or some other strategy?
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13895
Yeah, that's what we do too. That's why tanks take it first, and after the second tank/soaker reaches x amount of debuff (whatever you're swapping at), wait for the cleave to happen and then the next person runs in, takes the debuff and runs far away against the wall/next wall, leaving a gap for the trail (which can be filled in on the second time around).
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90 Worgen Rogue
14245
Your melee are positioning suboptimally and your rogue is doing something terribly, terribly wrong. It might be the BF fix kicking in already but he still should be much higher than 80k on a cleave fight.

I do not really understand how you can have issues with melee dpsing the legs all the time. You have a monk who can roll and serpent kick and a rogue who can shadow step, getting around should not be an issue. Rogue can also use feint for each crush, mitigating a lot of the damage that comes his way, which can allow him to outrange the healers most of the time. The front right legs can sometimes be a problem(if you kite him counterclockwise like we do, if not - the left side) but generally there is always a window of opportunity to dps them from inside the circle.
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90 Undead Warlock
7270
12/11/2012 13:38Posted by Renae
takes the debuff and runs far away

Thank you. Will try making that for our dps. Also will give us a chance to dps left legs maybe.

12/11/2012 13:55Posted by Razzoc
should be much higher than 80k on a cleave fight.

Yeah, world of logs shows that rogues do 40% their damage as cleaves, but our rogue has only 20%. But, it maybe also a problem of not killing 3 legs.

12/11/2012 13:55Posted by Razzoc
a rogue who can shadow step

Will also advise him that. Thank you!
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90 Troll Mage
9960
12/11/2012 13:10Posted by Ликандан
I can't check what happened on your logs since it's russian, but purely based on dps numbers people need to squeeze out more dps.


I have checked your logs, thank you. DPS is a BIG problem, as we have druid and warrior whos are pulling 25-30k each. Were thinking of speccing tank in fury for additional dps, but healers struggle a lot..

Regarding your dps - it is quite high, but your raid looks around 490 ilvl for me. We have two 484, one 483 and all others 480 and even lower.

As you advise using range dps as a kiter, did you have any problems with boss striking ranged with his aoe? We lose holy pala to this from time to time, guess cloth wearer will die 100%, if he gets caught. And he will eventually, if not on first lap, then on second.


That's improper positioning, kiters (unless it's tanks) should never get hit by the cleave. We only actually have 3 dps on ~490, rest is sub 485. (and 2 of those were kiting). You could drop 1 tank and just go 1 tank and have the tank do the cleaves with another plate wearer, this will also gain you some dps. Or if you really need to push it you *could* drop a healer.
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90 Undead Warlock
7270
12/11/2012 14:25Posted by Dutchmagoz
You could drop 1 tank and just go 1 tank


I guess it is the only way for us to kill Garalon this week. Additional 40-50k from subbed tank will at least get us closer to 0%. Not 20% like we have now..

12/11/2012 14:25Posted by Dutchmagoz
you *could* drop a healer.


We did try that - our best effort is 50%. After that we lose one or two dpsers..

Thank you for you advices!
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90 Human Death Knight
12935
Like others have said, leave the legs to the melee, apart from on the pull. If you can't get to the leg for some reason (outranging healers, pheromone puddles in the way) then you can leave it up until there is a time when you can dps it safely. Having 1-2 legs up from being unable to safely dps it isn't much of an issue, plus it means you will spawn the next mend leg next to the raid.

The melee DPS is a little low though. I pull 145k on this boss with Howling Blast cleaving as DW, a Rogue should be able to do that or at least above 100k, even with the Blade Flurry fix.
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90 Pandaren Monk
15385
there is a very easy solution, drop the 3th healer and take a extra dps.

edit.
i see you tried that allready, but if you are 20% of you should keep doing it that way till healers get it right
Edited by Sadnap on 12/11/2012 22:17 GMT
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90 Human Priest
11455
was having problems with this last night, but all range were taking out legs and running around trying to get into the blue circles.

we were hitting enraged at 15-20% so hopefully we will get it down tomorrow night will try swap out a healer for dps and a tank for dps aswell.

cheers for the thread even tho its not mine ^^
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