Posting on US forums

90 Gnome Mage
17180
I repeat Can you reveal to the community your source of information in regards to the "weekly meetings"

Why does the time frame matter? I said weekly as I have a recollection of reading a post somewhere that the way they operate is to gather feedback and then mail it to the US in their weekly report. I could have said daily. I could have said fortnightly. Point is they've said that they read out feedback and pass it on to the US, as they're supposed to do as part of their job role.

Just to throw more links out which I'm coming across in my search to finally find the one in which they describe their work schedule:

the community - Draztal, Community
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/5616542015?page=3#47

10/10/2012 11:26Posted by Draztal
The problem is that many of these constructive posts feel very unsatisfying for the person who opens the thread. Very recently I sat down and wrote a thread about all the things I felt about the new expansion and I tried to be as constructive as I could. The end result was a pretty long thread, which was responded to by a couple of trolls and a handful of people who agreed. The only way I know that a Blizzard employee actually saw the thread was that both troll posts are no longer present in it.


Right, as an individual, I share that concern; however, we don't really have the capacity to go blue-tagging good threads so we can acknowledge they've been read. I know, that's frustrating, but trust me, those threads are read, feedback is gathered from them, and not just by the European Community Team, our developers read these forums as well. It just happens that time is finite and if we devoted most of the day to acknowledge that those threads are being read, then we'd be mostly spamming the forums with a "this thread has been read". I wish I had a better answer for this, but unfortunately, I don't.

I tend to agree. It's kind of frustrating when you take time to write constructive points about certain areas to have them ignored, or trolled. It would be lovely to get the occasional Blue presence to give a small comfort that the post has been read, and to give the CMs credit, they seem to be doing a bit more responding recently, most notably (imo) with Vaneras' input on the CRZ thread.


For some topics, sometimes we just don't have answers to provide you (and for the record, in most occasions, neither do the developers at that moment, either). So it's kind of a "we know this is on-going but at this moment we really don't have anything we can share". It's trickier than it may look from the outside :-)
Edited by Kris on 15/11/2012 12:39 GMT
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Community
15/11/2012 11:52Posted by Gøntier
I repeat Can you reveal to the community your source of information in regards to the "weekly meetings"

Tadaaaaaaa.. just one example.

Zarhym - Twitter
http://twitter.com/CM_Zarhym/status/268292269830979584
Ethan:
@cm_zarhym it would give us something else to burn our JP on when we cap out :)



A) Hope a CM sees my post.
B) Hope a CM considers the point worthy of passing along.

Even if Ghostcrawler, Watcher, or any other dev, read this forum you would still have to hope that one of them sees your post and then answers it as well. That applies to the US forum, too.


I think it can't hurt dropping this one in here also:
https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status/254617421032337408
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90 Night Elf Rogue
8950

I think it can't hurt dropping this one in here also:
https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status/254617421032337408


While it is great that he says that, it doesn't do much to suggest that it actually is being listenened to. Even just popping over every now and then, throwing a few questions out, responding to a few points like he does over the US would suggest that the eu players aren't just piddling in the wind, like how I definitely felt when posting rogue beta feedback. Not only a pretty neglected class (every other class seemed to matter on the forums except rogues), but on a forum that only got blues posting when it came to locking threads.

Really does not make you feel as though your achieving anything other than catharsis. And even on several other issues, it does feel as though we're getting the same canned responses as the US, except one's in response to posters over there, the other's just copying that response. It's not just feedback acknowledgement that we want, it's discussion.

The one forum where the eu does seem to be listened to more often than the US is, (thanks to you), the story forum. Sadly, the whole forum itself seems to be pretty neglected, and fans of some races (I hope you don't mind a pretty scathing critique being posted sometime) outright belittled in game. Sadly, unless there are occasional discussions with the blues over important topics over here, (often with something positive coming out of it), it will carry on feeling as though the eu forums are simply ignored.
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90 Worgen Death Knight
16255
May be the case that CM's watch forums likewise in EU, but some specific threads only exist in the forums of one region, and so does the comment you want to react to.

It would be great if you could somehow reply to threads in US as well, so that you can post constructively. Especially in posts where a CM said "Alright guys, you can leave your feedback here and we'll read it." (leads to a better discussion imo, but that could just be me.

Edit: after more thinking: may need to get rid of the superstition about US/CM feedback watching etc first, and may still need a more dificult solution before it works as intended. Please give it a thought, though.
Edited by Eowaltinator on 15/11/2012 13:34 GMT
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90 Night Elf Priest
6080
You can lead a horse to water but you can not make it drink jumps to mind here!

No matter how many links are provided some people will still continue in their own mindset as they as so sure they are right!

The amount of posts per minute on the EU forums must be astonishing and they want all acknowledged as well as read? The only way to make that fesable would to have a little blue tick attached to all opened by a "blue" and then i bet the answer would be - opened but not read!
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Other than needing additional sections to cater for non-English languages, why in this day and age are there even separate forums for EU, US?
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90 Orc Warrior
11290
@Maievs
Blizzard can of course not control how you feel, but every post I've seen from them on the subject, some of them listed above, all explains that they can't reply to every thread, even if it has good points with constructive criticism.
Ergo, you feelings of neglect and going unheard are inaccurate but you will continue to feel them because Blizzard can not respond to all posts they read in a manner that would satisfy you (or the others who feel neglected in this thread).

And speaking as someone who has both a EU and US account I haven't noticed much difference in the way the blues post between them.
A caveat for the Beta forums, which I haven't followed. I know the blues and devs were pretty active there during the Mists beta.

Also, there are some devs you can follow and bug with questions on twitter. ;)
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90 Orc Warrior
11290
15/11/2012 13:40Posted by Baldain
Other than needing additional sections to cater for non-English languages, why in this day and age are there even separate forums for EU, US?

My guess would be server structure and trade/business legislations/rules/laws.

Also, keep in mind that the game client is slightly different between EU and US.
What is relevant for the EU client might not be for the US client.
A minor but clear example is the Wolpertinger pet. On the US client you get that pet by doing a quest. On the EU client you can only buy it with Brewfest coins.
[jokingly]I guess the EU side is just more hardcore than the US.[/jokingly] ;)
Edited by Mashaad on 15/11/2012 13:45 GMT
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90 Draenei Shaman
8670


Also, there are some devs you can follow and bug with questions on twitter. ;)


yeah, well, not everyone uses Twitter, and we shouldn't have to to get our message across.
I mean, it's cool that Blizz uses it as an additional means of communication, but there should be other ways for EU players to get in touch. And as some people here point out, there's some interesting discussions on the US forums, that I would like to jump in on, but not start over on the EU forums. Beta class balance analysis comes to mind.
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90 Orc Warrior
11290
You don't have to use twitter. It's an option that's available. ;)

If you want to post on the US forums all you have to do is convince the EU parliament and the US governement to change international business laws.

Well, you can get a US account too but you'll have to pay for that.
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90 Human Mage
14440
You don't have to use twitter. It's an option that's available. ;)

If you want to post on the US forums all you have to do is convince the EU parliament and the US governement to change international business laws.

Well, you can get a US account too but you'll have to pay for that.


International forums do not violate international laws... there is no business law that says "EU customers cannot have discussions with customers elsewhere in the world". The idea otherwise is so absurd that it's beyond comprehension.

The contract between Blizzard and myself has to adhere to EU law, as does Blizzard EU's business dealings. That's it.

As I said, this was enabled for the beta forums where those with an EU and a US license could post on a single forum. Clearly it can be done, and without violating fictional laws you just made up.
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90 Orc Warrior
11290
But weren't the beta servers all in the same place?
I think part of the problem is the US and EU servers being in different countries.
Also the game clients being slightly different.

Because the servers are in different countries there is different legislation for the two different game clients. Which are different because there are different censorship rules in the US and EU.
(Also some other minor stuff, like the Wolpertinger thing.)

For a discussion on, say, talent trees, or PVP balance, these legislations do not apply of course.
But because the separated servers and different censorship rules the EU parliament or US government might object if Blizzard merged the forums completely.

It's also possible that it's just a relic from Classic, when WoW wasn't as large as it is today and there actually aren't any international business rules hindering things. I don't know.
If that is the case however it might simply be a cost issue.
It would probably cost quite a lot to merge the forums.

btw:
15/11/2012 14:00Posted by Ulsaki
International forums do not violate international laws... there is no business law that says "EU customers cannot have discussions with customers elsewhere in the world". The idea otherwise is so absurd that it's beyond comprehension.

Have you looked at international law? Or even just national law?
The things you find in there... Absurd is just the beginning.
Add to that legislation being slow and in many cases not being quite sure how to handle the borderlessness of the internet.
Weird stuff happens.
Edited by Mashaad on 15/11/2012 14:18 GMT
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90 Night Elf Rogue
8950
@Maievs
Blizzard can of course not control how you feel, but every post I've seen from them on the subject, some of them listed above, all explains that they can't reply to every thread, even if it has good points with constructive criticism.
Ergo, you feelings of neglect and going unheard are inaccurate but you will continue to feel them because Blizzard can not respond to all posts they read in a manner that would satisfy you (or the others who feel neglected in this thread).

And speaking as someone who has both a EU and US account I haven't noticed much difference in the way the blues post between them.
A caveat for the Beta forums, which I haven't followed. I know the blues and devs were pretty active there during the Mists beta.

Also, there are some devs you can follow and bug with questions on twitter. ;)


I know that they can't necessarily post more, it's just that there does somewhat feel as though the US does get most of the responses (Barring the story forum). It is particularly the Beta class feedback though that concerned me, considering that for all the discussion over the US, the direct discussion, the eu got non of it, only players copying and pasting threads. That's too much of a discrepancy for comfort.

And yeah, I've tried twitter. Any more tweets to Metzen and Kosak and I'd probably be done in for Harrasment.
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Cannot see how laws come into it for not having combined forums, especially when others are able to cope with it, e.g. http://forums.riftgame.com/.

Yes there are some minor differences in the actual clients but then clients aren't forums. I suppose it's simply a historical anomaly and as to cost, well I imagine it would be cheaper to administer if the majority was located in one place.
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90 Human Mage
14440
But weren't the beta servers all in the same place?
I think part of the problem is the US and EU servers being in different countries.
Also the game clients being slightly different.

Because the servers are in different countries there is different legislation for the two different game clients. Which are different because there are different censorship rules in the US and EU.
(Also some other minor stuff, like the Wolpertinger thing.)

For a discussion on, say, talent trees, or PVP balance, these legislations do not apply of course.
But because the separated servers and different censorship rules the EU parliament or US government might object if Blizzard merged the forums completely.

It's also possible that it's just a relic from Classic, when WoW wasn't as large as it is today and there actually aren't any international business rules hindering things. I don't know.
If that is the case however it might simply be a cost issue.
It would probably cost quite a lot to merge the forums.

btw:
International forums do not violate international laws... there is no business law that says "EU customers cannot have discussions with customers elsewhere in the world". The idea otherwise is so absurd that it's beyond comprehension.

Have you looked at international law? Or even just national law?
The things you find in there... Absurd is just the beginning.
Add to that legislation being slow and in many cases not being quite sure how to handle the borderlessness of the internet.
Weird stuff happens.


The beta forums were all on the same place. You literally cannot continue to argue against this when your own argument has been destroyed by Blizzard already allowing this.

Further, plenty of people run international sites despite operating in different countries. Microsoft is a good example, with all Xbox Live customers able to post on the same forum despite operating in many different jurisdictions including many in the EU. Yet another case to back up how you're making up nonsensical and non-existent laws.

You clearly do not understand how the laws operate because they do not prohibit discussion. They govern the way business is conducted. Blizzard US could host the only official forums and do so on the moon, and allow EU customers to post there, it has no bearing on anything as long as Blizzard EU does business in the EU under EU law. Almost all the internet is international and there is no EU law to stop it.

There is no EU law that says "EU customers cannot post on US-based forums", as evidenced by countless organisations allowing it, including other businesses of a similar nature to Blizzard. Stop making up this utter nonsense.
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90 Human Priest
16350
if i say there is a teapot floating in space between earth and the sun but so far away you cant see it, is it there or not?
i dunno but i have to prove it i cant just say its there and demand you refute it.
and for those who didn´t get the point just stating the fact that they do read but offering up no proof they do does not a valid claim make.

and even assuming it is true that they do care and read everything and then pass it along, a) we get a gatekeeper between us and the developers, not particularly fair, and then why does GC reply to any post on the US forum ?
the reason doesnt mater much but regardless we are lacking in response and even if all he did was moderating we would thus get less moderation, also not fair.

and if we, for sake of argument, received the same amount of attention as the US forums there is still the lack of FORUMS, check the beta forums if they are still around,
(ignoring the glaring lack of posts (in a Six (6) month period we received a SINGLE post from a blue, and that was to shut down a page were we whined about the lack of attention)
we had half the amount of forums US did, exactly how am i supposed to offer my input on pet battles when there was no EU forum for that ?
and how can my input reach a developer? did they read my input on the imaginary forum?
also there were no input stickies that the US forum had, I.e the EU forums couldn´t even receive a stupid copy paste that would take five seconds to do.

and even if all that is brushed aside there is such a thing as appearances if i give molly five dollars and Emmy a hundred dollars, molly is going to think mommy and daddy loves her less even thou i´m stuffing 95 dollars into molly´s college account, Because it appears like they love Emmy more.
and btw for the purposes of this analogy and to underline my fundamental point i think daddy is buying crack with molly´s 95 dollars, (or mind altering hallucinogens).

and btw the response should be to make me believe you, not to state that you do do whatever you do, because that convinces no one.
Edited by Thieriah on 15/11/2012 15:08 GMT
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90 Night Elf Hunter
17305


Tadaaaaaaa.. just one example.

Zarhym - Twitter
http://twitter.com/CM_Zarhym/status/268292269830979584

Even if Ghostcrawler, Watcher, or any other dev, read this forum you would still have to hope that one of them sees your post and then answers it as well. That applies to the US forum, too.


I think it can't hurt dropping this one in here also:
https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status/254617421032337408


There was also no whitewash at the whitehouse too!

and while your hear please clear something up. Do you or your line managers meet on a weekly basis with your US counterparts?
Edited by Spacehunt on 15/11/2012 15:34 GMT
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Community
15/11/2012 15:32Posted by Spacehunt
There was also no whitewash at the whitehouse too!


And NASA never sent a man to the moon! LoL ;-)

15/11/2012 15:32Posted by Spacehunt
and while your hear please clear something up. Do you or your line managers meet on a weekly basis with your US counterparts?


Yup, we are in constant contact with our US colleagues. Video conference meetings, phone/voip conference meetings, emails, instant messaging, you name it. The distance between our offices, and also the time zone differences, is an issue of course that unfortunately prevents physical meetings weekly, but we still have those quite often as well.
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MVP - World of Warcraft
90 Pandaren Monk
15825
How even in your twisted MVP lapdog logic can you work that into this All of your assumptions that the EU is neglected whilst the US provide all of the feedback are wrong. The EU have community managers. They read through our feedback and then pass it on to the developers over in the US weekly

I didn't say I worked it into that, I simply quoted a person (you) asking for a source who says they have weekly meetings. You did not specifically say the EU community, you simply asked for a source in regards to these "weekly meetings".

I won't reply back to you any further considering you cannot post with a civil manner and have to insult me by saying "MVP lapdog logic" when you don't even understand what I said, and your post has been reported. :)

15/11/2012 15:30Posted by Spacehunt
That poster was stating that the EU CM meet on a weekly basis with their US counter parts. Source/Prove that this takes place.


15/11/2012 15:48Posted by Vaneras
Yup, we are in constant contact with our US colleagues. Video conference meetings, phone/voip conference meetings, emails, instant messaging, you name it. The distance between our offices, and also the time zone differences, is an issue of course that unfortunately prevents physical meetings weekly, but we still have those quite often as well.
Edited by Gøntier on 15/11/2012 15:55 GMT
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