Tired of players complaining about putting in effort!

100 Human Warlock
14815
Sort of thinking you are purposelessly missing the point of each of these posts.
LFR ONLY gets you ready for the next stage of LFR IF you are lucky enough to replace every single item.

people want the VP items and other items from rep. They want to work for them, however they don't want to do daily quests.

With 5.1 looming and looking just as bad, with yet more factions and rep grinds all with daily quests, people are sensibly making their opinions heard before the same mistake is made again.

But how is doing what you'd be doing anyway working for them? Is it not just passive at that point?
Edited by Jessicka on 08/11/2012 15:51 GMT
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90 Troll Priest
16695
And please stop speaking for me, like you represent the "competitive playerbase". You don't. You're awful and we...
this one's just too easy. Wether or not your point is valid, the "we" states you DO represent that competitive playerbase. I'm sure opinions differ just about anywhere, including that playerbase. Meaning that as much as I agree with you, no one can represent any player group, without having asked enough of them for their opinion.

Having said that, I do not see myself as competitive, I'm not even playing WoW every day anymore. I do find the daily quest grinds repetitive and I do see why they're here and think they shouldn't disappear or be made easier just because the casual player doesn't like them.

As just about any player, I don't mind a gear upgrade, but honestly, if it requires me to scrap actual "real life" activities, I'm out. And I prefer this game that way, don't let the whiners win, even though they form a big part of the overall player base and can be noticed anywhere just because they scream the loudest.

Rewards according to efford are just about the fairest part of this game.
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85 Goblin Warlock
3605
08/11/2012 15:50Posted by Jessicka
But how is doing what you'd be doing anyway working for them?

You have sort of lost me here, unless ofc you are talking about one idea that has been knocking around of reintroducing tabards?

Please bear in mind that this is only ONE idea, but even with tabards I would then have to farm heroics, where currently I am not, so it is something extra.
Some may ask you how your dalies are working if you would be doing them anyway ......oh wait you say you wouldn't do them anyway as they are dull ?
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85 Goblin Warlock
3605
08/11/2012 15:51Posted by Nylou
Rewards according to efford are just about the fairest part of this game


Completely agree, don't think anyone is arguing that point.
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And btw Dratzdal you also talking about effort, (i have to repeat myself here as some earlyer post) what is effort?

Grinding 1,5 hrs daylies = effort

Equipping tabard and gain reputation in dungeons, running it 1,5 hrs ≠ effort

Why is it this way?


Oh it is. But the developers were quite clear on that side. They felt that running dungeons on itself is already rewarwd enough and wanted to move away from a model where reputations were just a byproduct of doing something that you are going to do anyways (run heroics).

If you like alts, you are forced to do dailys on them aswell if you want to use the Cloud serpents.
Farming to exalted on every alt is unacceptable, either make them Account wide reputations, or turn them into books for rep, 100% extra rep does not matter much if you got to do it on every alt.


Is there a good reason why you need to get the cloud serpent on all your alts? I think a concept that disappeared over the course of Cataclysm was that of your "main" character. The "main" character has always been that on which you invest most time and has most things than any other character in your account.

08/11/2012 14:12Posted by Risc
I feel it is time I quit. I don't want to do LFR and I don't want to do dailies. What is there left for me to do then other than wait for resets?


There're Pet Battles, Scenarios, Challenge Modes, Holiday Events (when those are running), Professions, leveling a Monk if you haven't tried that class yet, Archeology, The Lorewalkers...

08/11/2012 13:53Posted by Vot
So you agree then that the dailies are so bad, that if the carrot was taken away (or even just shrunk) then no one would do them.


No, definitely not. I haven't said anything that comes even close to that. And it'd do good to the community at large to stop twisting the words from the Community Managers on the sole attempt of trying to serve your interest. It's not going to help your case, in fact it's just going to make us even more cautious of where and how we interact.

We're here to listen to what's being discussed, add our own thoughts if we feel it might contribute something, relay the information from the developers and to the developers, and so on. If you want to help your case, it's in your best interest to make sure we are understanding your concerns and that there's a healthy discussion on it. Playing semantics with us so that you can pretend we're actually agreeing with you when we're not just won't get you very far in the goal you want to achieve.

08/11/2012 15:27Posted by Basbo
I think people are complaining that it is boring. Not necessarily that it takes a long time.


So, what should be changed on dailies so that they're fun to you? (and please don't say "remove them" or something that would turn them into something irrelevant, or we'd be missing the point of the question!)

Just as an example, all the factions on Mists have rotating dailies (some of them are set, like the profession dailies for the Order of the Cloud Serpent and some of the Golden Lotus daily quests) and there's variety on them regarding what you do, which is not always kill this, gather that.
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100 Human Warlock
14815
08/11/2012 15:54Posted by Vot
Some may ask you how your dalies are working if you would be doing them anyway ......oh wait you say you wouldn't do them anyway as they are dull ?

I put in the time to do them as much as was necessary. I'm fine with that. I didn't try to do all the factions at once, and currently sit at Exalted with Klaxxi, and Revered with the rest. Now I've done a few other things I wanted to do (level alts, make Inscription Staff for example), I'll knock them over to Exalted one at a time.

I don't find them too boring, but they are very easy to burn out on; which I totally appreciate - I did that with the Argent Tournament which is why I've paced myself now.

In terms of alternatives, what are you thinking? A daily rep cap per faction, that can be achieved through daily quests or daily heroic quest? I guess I could go for that.
Edited by Jessicka on 08/11/2012 16:06 GMT
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90 Pandaren Shaman
5135
So, what should be changed on dailies so that they're fun to you? (and please don't say "remove them" or something that would turn them into something irrelevant, or we'd be missing the point of the question!)


Ofc not that's unfair on the ones that enjoy them, some of us just want another way so the rest of us can enjoy gaining rep as well. I'm not flooded with ideas, but anything that isn't quests would be fine. As long as it takes the same time and effort and things are not handed out, i think people would agree on it. sounds fair? nothing more nothing less.
Edited by Herase on 08/11/2012 16:12 GMT
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85 Goblin Warlock
3605
So, what should be changed on dailies so that they're fun to you? (and please don't say "remove them" or something that would turn them into something irrelevant, or we'd be missing the point of the question!)

Just as an example, all the factions on Mists have rotating dailies (some of them are set, like the profession dailies for the Order of the Cloud Serpent and some of the Golden Lotus daily quests) and there's variety on them regarding what you do, which is not always kill this, gather that.


There was a very good idea several pages back about an old TBC method, where dalies were one option, and grinding mobs, and handing in tokens was another.

My personal preference would be to remove the valued items from the rep rewards and maybe reduce the VP gain from heroics etc to compensate (so people still need to work hard to get things) Rep could then be something a little more unique for dedicated people to gain cosmetic items from, rather than a mass chore for all.

08/11/2012 15:58Posted by Draztal
No, definitely not. I haven't said anything that comes even close to that. And it'd do good to the community at large to stop twisting the words from the Community Managers on the sole attempt of trying to serve your interest.


My appologise, but it seemed to me you only answered one specific aspect of the question, missing out the BIG thing that people are stating - which is dalies are dull, your later post which prompts people for solutions to dull dalies, now covers this. - ty
Edited by Vot on 08/11/2012 16:13 GMT
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Well i dont mind doing dailies, i actually enjoy it, dont really get why people does everything at the same time and later say that the game is boring.... do 1 faction a day or something it's really quite entertaining that way.

But there's one small detail that i dont really agree with.... Why do we need rep to spend our valor points? We earn them in dungeons and raids and even on dailies, it doesn't make much sense that we need rep's to spend them.... that's why dailies feel mandatory....

You do dailies, you get bonus loot, valor points, some really cool mounts and pets @ exalted, bonus itens from getting exalted.... it feels rewarding enough.... valor vendors isn't rewarding it feels mandatory
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90 Orc Death Knight
10515
Time spent =/= effort
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1 Night Elf Warrior
0
08/11/2012 15:58Posted by Draztal
Oh it is. But the developers were quite clear on that side. They felt that running dungeons on itself is already rewarwd enough and wanted to move away from a model where reputations were just a byproduct of doing something that you are going to do anyways (run heroics).


To be honest, right now it is exactly the opposite way. We are going to do dailies any way for lesser charms of good fortune, and at the same time we get on the side: reputation (to revered; to actually be able to purchase anything from valour points), reputation (to exalted; for vanity items) and valour points.

All I do now is grind dailies all day. I never even enter heroics any more, because there is virtually nothing to gain there. I outgear all the drops, and valour from scenario's is much faster,... if I even need any more, because normally I get capped from dailies alone.

Yes, I understand, it's all a choice. I could opt to just run heroics for valour points if that is what I truly like. And then I can spend my valour points on.... wait... nothing. I kind of have to do the dailies any way.
Well then I will just do LFR for some upgrades and valour points. Good thing we have to charms of good luck, so that we get an extra roll on loot some times. Oh wait,.... dailies again.

Please realise: sure, if we don't like dailies, we should not do them. BUT, nearly everything is locked behind dailies. If you want to make any meaningful progress in raids you will "have" to do dailies to unlock the valour gear, to get extra rolls on loot, etc. Otherwise, you're just gimping the raid and the guild.

I'm not for introducing tabards how they worked in Cataclysm, that was a bit silly. But how about having a tabard with a daily or weekly limit of how much reputation you can get for it? Or at the end of a random heroic, you get an item to increase reputation with a faction of your choise (or a random one; whatever).

Mix it a bit. In Cataclysm, everything was focused on dungeons. Now, everything is focused on dailies.

And a lot of players don't like dailies. Even if you're not forcing them, and even if they can just totally skip them, they're going to get the feeling they're missing out, when the rest of the guild is running around in shiny epics from valour points and bonus rolls. :)

Just my 2 cents.
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90 Human Rogue
0

So, what should be changed on dailies so that they're fun to you? (and please don't say "remove them" or something that would turn them into something irrelevant, or we'd be missing the point of the question!)

Just as an example, all the factions on Mists have rotating dailies (some of them are set, like the profession dailies for the Order of the Cloud Serpent and some of the Golden Lotus daily quests) and there's variety on them regarding what you do, which is not always kill this, gather that.


The basic idea of dailies isnt bad per say. And I know u are rotating dailies to make it less boring. Also the mobs and quest bosses in MoP are somewhat harder than in Cata and WotLK. However, when u boil it down they are still very easy which leads to boring. I know u want every one to be able to complete dailes without huge problems, and I agree. But a way to make this accessible to every1 and still make it challinging could be to make the reputation gain vary with how well u complete the daily. Say u get a daily quest where get a task to complete something, lets say something like the Serpent cloud race. U get a set amount of rep for completeting the race/quest, but u get more rep the faster u are able to do it. So every1 get rep for doing it but the better u do it the mor erep u get. That rewards skills and effort without shutting out ppl who have average or less than average skills or will to put in the requeired effort. That would make dailes more interesting
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100 Night Elf Warrior
15335
Draztal, I have a question for you : define "effort" and "fun". We're in a game, don't forget that. Something human beings do out of their leisure time for their own pleasure.

I've been asking myself this for a few years now : what is considered an "effort" or "fun activity" from Blizzard.
I remember a dev (Tigole ?) saying quite some time ago "we always wonder if something is "fun" for the players before we implement it". It seems to me that repetition kills "fun" quite fast.

When apparently several of us consider dailies as repetitive and non-challenging, hence boring, I still haven't heard Blizzard's definition of "fun" and "effort". And I think it's time we mutually approach the timesink / subcriptions matter with honesty for once.

I can give you a pointer. When most of this game relies on the concept of "item reward" , it seems to me that Blizzard's official stance is "it's fine that, in order to acquire a cool item, players have oinly 1 way : do something that they find boring and uninterseting".
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90 Orc Warrior
9235
I'd have to agree with the OP. Before MoP a lot of complaints were along the lines of: It's too easy! Everyone can get gear! Make it harder! Well, it happened, and now the roles have changed. There really is no argument in saying that you NEED valor/coins for progress because, well, you don't. Does it help this early into an expansion? Yes, it does. I don't mind doing dailies, are they fun? Not really, but I don't usually consider them a chore either. Valor gear will be insignificant in a patch or two anyway.

I've stopped raiding shortly after Ulduar release, I'd still like some shiny items but I am willing to work for them. A lot of people seem to think their guilds are all this and that and that because of that delusion they *have* to do dailies and LFR, all day every day. In a way it reminds me of a thread I read on the US forums about a guy complaining Stone Guard was too hard, RNG, whatever. And he was convinced his raid team consisted of skilled players, while just a quick peak at their armory would tell you otherwise.

What I'm trying to say is this: You don't NEED dailies or LFR unless you're playing world top 25/50. If you find them boring and repetitive DON'T do them. You're living in your own delusion thinking that you need them. WotlK and Cata spoiled the majority of you, now just get used to the fact that things have changed, for the better in my opinion.

Also, Whipper Root Tuber says hi.
Edited by Nueve on 08/11/2012 18:14 GMT
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90 Troll Hunter
12045
Tbh, i'd rather grind mobs 6 hours per day for 3 days to reach exalted, than go and spend time doing daily quests 30 minutes per day for 36 days for example. The current system is just forcing people to come to WoW to do dailies every day if they dont want to ''fall behind'', and not allowing people who for example would like to '' just get the job done '' get the reputation any other way.

Blizzard should just add some other ways of getting the reputation imo. You were able to turn in Relics of Ulduar for Sons of Hodir rep and Netherwing Eggs for Netherwing rep. Why won't you allow a system like that? Or atleast make certain mobs give like 5-10 rep when killed. I would love to be able to grind some rep when i have lots of spare time, and be able to retrieve the reputation that i have ''lost'' by not doing dailies. I do understand that i'm NOT forced to do the dailies but i'f i don't do them there will be no use for my valor points and thats pretty badly designed imo. I also believe that some people ( me for example ) would actually like the dailies more and actually have fun doing them once in a while if there would be an alternative way to get the reputation, rather than forcing people to do them as the only way of getting rep

If you won't be able to add alternative way's of getting reputation, then i would suggest that you would atleast add other ways of spending Valor points (for example: non-combat pets, transmog items or other cool stuff. Just something that people who don't want to do dailies can spend their Valor points to.
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100 Human Paladin
20250
Tbh, i'd rather grind mobs 6 hours per day for 3 days to reach exalted, than go and spend time doing daily quests 30 minutes per day for 36 days for example. The current system is just forcing people to come to WoW to do dailies every day if they dont want to ''fall behind'', and not allowing people who for example would like to '' just get the job done '' get the reputation any other way.

Blizzard should just add some other ways of getting the reputation imo. You were able to turn in Relics of Ulduar for Sons of Hodir rep and Netherwing Eggs for Netherwing rep. Why won't you allow a system like that? Or atleast make certain mobs give like 5-10 rep when killed. I would love to be able to grind some rep when i have lots of spare time, and be able to retrieve the reputation that i have ''lost'' by not doing dailies. I do understand that i'm NOT forced to do the dailies but i'f i don't do them there will be no use for my valor points and thats pretty badly designed imo. I also believe that some people ( me for example ) would actually like the dailies more and actually have fun doing them once in a while if there would be an alternative way to get the reputation, rather than forcing people to do them as the only way of getting rep

If you won't be able to add alternative way's of getting reputation, then i would suggest that you would atleast add other ways of spending Valor points (for example: non-combat pets, transmog items or other cool stuff. Just something that people who don't want to do dailies can spend their Valor points to.


Like he said i wnat all enchants, tailor + jc on ym 2 main alts. But! i`m only doing jc since you don`t need revered godlen noredom and then exalted celestial suicide. + the rep for golden lotus is just way to small..... And to ones sayign you are lazy i ahve all exalted.
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100 Human Mage
12685
I could probably write a book on how much I despise daily quests, but for the purposes of this thread I'm going to keep this succinct.

I play World of Warcraft an extremely significant amount, and of that time I could very easily make the time to do daily quests. I am, however, an extremely obstinate person and in almost all cases when someone attempts to force me to do something I make absolutely certain that I don't do it. So, to be clear, my hatred for daily quests is purely a manifestation of Blizzard attempting to force me to do them.

Now, I am, however, what one would classify as a reasonably hardcore raider. The fact that I don't do daily quests leads to the following:

- I'm collecting Sigils for no real reason; I'll never have the reputation to hand them in.
- I'm collecting valor points that I've been unable to spend and have thus been capped for weeks.
- I never have coins for additional loot rolls, which leads to my guild peers (understandably) hating me because it leads to them averaging less loot as well as myself.
- Moreover, during the start of this expansion I have been undergeared and thus been unable to perform to the standard that I could have been able to.

Vanity pets, mounts and the like all have a place to be rewarded to those that wish to acquire them from daily quests. Valor items, coins and Legendary item related reputations really have no business being attached to anything other than raids. You say you're not forcing anyone to do them? Short of restraining me and tying me to my keyboard, I really can't see many other ways you could force someone to do daily quests.

Leaving the more factual analysis behind and heading into more subjective territory: daily quests are neither challenging nor fun. When I login to a game to have some fun the last thing that comes to mind is performing some horribly repetitive and mundane activity. Personally, I like a challenge; raiding is a challenge, PVP is a challenge. Grinding daily quests, or grinding mobs for reputation or even grinding battlegrounds is, frankly, the most soporific use of time imaginable.
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55 Gnome Death Knight
11165
Dailies are not fun because:

-Competing against other players to quest node/mob/objective is extremely frustrating (or seeing them 'stealing' nodes just as you clear all mobs around it)
-You're getting screwed with things like random 3+ mobs spawning on you when you just used defensive cooldowns, the more people doing the same quest the worse it becomes with random spawning
-Tanking classes having way too much advantage in mass-tagging mobs
-Reward system is screwed, even if I do dailies, in most cases I still have to run dungeons to get JP points (and vice-versa) so this forces certain exact way of playing instead of giving a choice
Edited by Seriousxoxo on 08/11/2012 16:59 GMT
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90 Human Paladin
17820
+1

Totally agree, stop complaining because you dont get your free epics on day one.
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