Tired of players complaining about putting in effort!

90 Pandaren Shaman
5135
I'd have to agree with the OP. Before MoP a lot of complains were along the lines of: It's too easy! Everyone can get gear! Make it harder! Well, it happened, and now the roles have changed. There really is no argument in saying that you NEED valor/coins for progress because, well, you don't. Does it help this early into an expansion? Yes, it does. I don't mind doing dailies, are they fun? Not really, but I don't usually consider them a chore either. Valor gear will be insignificant in a patch or two anyway.

I've stopped raiding shortly after Ulduar release, I'd still like some shiny items but I am willing to work for them. A lot of people seem to think their guilds are all this and that and that because of that delusion they *have* to do dailies and LFR, all day every day. In a way it reminds me of a thread I read on the US forums about a guy complaining Stone Guard was too hard, RNG, whatever. And he was convinced his raid team consisted of skilled players, while just a quick peak at their armory would tell you otherwise.

What I'm trying to say is this: You don't NEED dailies or LFR unless you're playing world top 25/50. If you find them boring and repetitive DON'T do them. You're living in your own delusion thinking that you need them. WotlK and Cata spoiled the majority of you, now just get used to the fact that things have changed, for the better in my opinion.

Also, Whipper Root Tuber says hi.


Fair point but answer me this "what’s wrong with having another way to grind rep? if the outcome is the same, meaning effort and time wise?

no one has yet answered this question and just repeated themselves saying "you dont need them" in ways i can agree, but i don’t see how this will affect anyone who enjoys doing the daily quests and why people are getting hot an flustered over it :(. we’re not asking to remove it and as long as it takes the same length of time and "effort". What is the actual problem?

I would like the blue post to answer this as well please.
Edited by Herase on 08/11/2012 17:12 GMT
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90 Human Paladin
19140
08/11/2012 16:55Posted by Leqt
I play World of Warcraft an extremely significant amount, and of that time I could very easily make the time to do daily quests. I am, however, an extremely obstinate person and in almost all cases when someone attempts to force me to do something I make absolutely certain that I don't do it. So, to be clear, my hatred for daily quests is purely a manifestation of Blizzard attempting to force me to do them.


Same if people say hey you must do this! I don`t do it.... it must be can you work on that report > sure. Hey WORK on that report > which report??? And getting my bag recipe with gl is case 2 HEY DO GL BEFORE YOU EVEN CAN DO CELESTIAL! So i even don`t wanna do it.

+1

Totally agree, stop complaining because you dont get your free epics on day one.


same old, this isn`t about people being lazy!
Edited by Lightgoddes on 08/11/2012 17:11 GMT
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90 Human Mage
13545
i do the daillies when i can, some days i dont have the time and that's when id like to see an alternative, such as catch up quests at the weekend, or tabbards for dungeons with a weekly rep cap so its the same as you'd get if you did daillies. An alternative.

I have no issue with gaining rep taking time and effort, but with daillies its only an effort because it's so tedious. The idea of doing it all again on my alts depresses me makes me reluctant to level them, hence i havent levelled any other character yet.



P.S. Is 100 really the average IQ? It seems quite low in my opinion, but on this Mensa test showed that the average is 100. Is it really fixed around that, or is it just to make people feel better, as very few will be that low?


yes it is, but they change how it's scaled every decade or so, as intelligence gets higher each generation, to always have 100 as the average :)
Edited by Foxierowan on 08/11/2012 17:21 GMT
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90 Night Elf Hunter
20360
08/11/2012 15:58Posted by Draztal
Oh it is. But the developers were quite clear on that side. They felt that running dungeons on itself is already rewarwd enough and wanted to move away from a model where reputations were just a byproduct of doing something that you are going to do anyways (run heroics).


After 1 week dinging lvl 90 i didnt need any item from HC dungeons, now they are dead for me.
I havent feel same before MOP. HC s are always been somehow rewarded, but not here any more.

So, what should be changed on dailies so that they're fun to you? (and please don't say "remove them" or something that would turn them into something irrelevant, or we'd be missing the point of the question!)

Just as an example, all the factions on Mists have rotating dailies (some of them are set, like the profession dailies for the Order of the Cloud Serpent and some of the Golden Lotus daily quests) and there's variety on them regarding what you do, which is not always kill this, gather that.


Dailies cant be fun for me, its repeatable action and its boring. Dailies can be side content when you are bored of something or you need gold.
Ofc they should stay in game because some ppl love these.

Lot of players says that now the world is full of ppl and players not sitting in major cityes.
Why blizzard wont make world events, something like Sha but smaller mobs. All events give some reward, VP s, some tokens which you can swap for some mounts, transmo gear and other "bling bling" items.
Also some events are pvp ones, rewarding conquest points, honor points and also some pvp tokens so you can buy pvp mounts and what ever "bling bling".

The biggest problem atm is that the rep is connected with VP items and important cafting patterns. And also no alternatives for rep. Remove those items there and keep rest same way. Im pretty sure that most of players will do all these daylies because mounts but they can do it more slowly and when they really feel that they have time. Atm dailies suck fun out of the game because players feels that they need these items now, and they are right. After 6 months these items there are pointless.
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1 Night Elf Warrior
0
So, what should be changed on dailies so that they're fun to you? (and please don't say "remove them" or something that would turn them into something irrelevant, or we'd be missing the point of the question!)

Just as an example, all the factions on Mists have rotating dailies (some of them are set, like the profession dailies for the Order of the Cloud Serpent and some of the Golden Lotus daily quests) and there's variety on them regarding what you do, which is not always kill this, gather that.


I would really like some of the daily quests to be a challenge. So far I have not found many dailies which are truly a challenge. Killing 12 mobs, clicking 3 lightning rods, placing 7 bombs from on top of my mount, not really challenging. Also, making a fight longer (eg. by increasing the health pool of a mob), does also not make it more challenging nor more engaging, just more boring.

Examples of what I found interesting are the daily quests in the Gun-Lai Halls where you have to follow the ground patterns and avoid the falling rocks. It's a nice change of pace. Also, in Townlong Steppes, in the northern-most island (forgot the name), there are elite mobs which spawn 4 mobs and you have to kill them to kill the main mob.

There is also the diversity. For example, I do not dislike the Klaxxi somehow, because I think there is enough diversity among them. But for Golden Lotus, every day there is the same "kill 12 Mogu" daily, and I really cannot stand that one any more.
Another example were the Sons of Hodir dailies, like the one where you ride the drake (was it a drake?) in his mouth and kill it. Epic!

Finally a small tip about volumes: some spawns are really not fast enough or not numerous enough. Like the statues in the Golden Lotus dailies, the relics you have to find there. On a Saturday with a lot of people playing there, not so much fun.

On the other hand, the August Celestials ones at the Temple of the Jade Serpent are pretty annoying, because there's mobs everywhere keeping you in combat all the time. But at the same time, not enough Sutras found on the floor.

For reference, I like the August Celestials ones at the temple of the White Tiger. Although I would like it if the challenges were a bit more challenging and engaging as well. Bit more abilities, bit longer fights. Like mini raid bosses or something. Make them as hard as the outside-world rare mobs.

Just my 2 cents.
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90 Pandaren Monk
12305
Continuing to use double standard is really ticking me off.

Double-dipping on Blizzard's part alright. Give people a currency as a reward for doing dungeons that they can't possibly use without doing a significant amount of daily quests at a predeterminded pace.

Triple-dip by gating a faction behind another.

Then go ahead and multiply all that by requiring people to go through the same thing with each and every character they might be interesting in playing.

Now I have a CM telling me that the concept of a "main" character disappeared. Well, maybe it's too easily ignored now that exactly that was the reason why people decided to stick with WoW during the last year of Cataclysm, even though they were essentially done and bored.

I am to be all happy about some item I'll be able to buy eventually that will double the XP gained. How freaking awesome is that? I get to double the reputation gains that have previously been cut in half compared to other quests in order to slow down my progress?

I might just have to come to the conclusion that the "effort" required each and every day to get my characters the very basic functionality of point vendors and crafting patterns is just way more than I am willing to spend.

WoW was good. It didn't need all the gating to get me to log in pretty much every day to do something. Sometimes more, sometimes less. I got to decide for myself.

Essentially forcing me though if I want to get anywhere (which is really just to where I was the last couple years) is going to backfire. The level of frustration about having to do certain things is already high enough for me to just shut the client down or rather than logging in just use the app to see if anything is going on within the guild and/or talk to people.

Btw, the next time a CM lists things like scenarios, pet battles, and whatnot as alternative to dungeons and daily quests, I would like to know why despite all those alternative ways to spend time in WoW, gated daily quests are the ONLY way to gain reputation.
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46 Dwarf Hunter
10995
08/11/2012 17:15Posted by Basbo
P.S. Is 100 really the average IQ? It seems quite low in my opinion, but on this Mensa test showed that the average is 100. Is it really fixed around that, or is it just to make people feel better, as very few will be that low?


The IQ scale is a relative scale where 100 is by construction the average in the population the test is intended for. ("When modern IQ tests are devised, the mean (average) score within an age group is set to 100 " -- from Wikipedia).

What is clear though is that humankind is not all that intelligent. So it might be smart to measure our intelligence by a relative measure intended for ourselves. Any objective measure would not be flattering.

I agree with the OP that all this whining is getting old. I also agree that getting up to speed this expansion was a lot of work, I probably won't be trying to keep up next expansion if that turns out to be equally time consuming. I think it is clear that spreading the valor gear over 4 factions, 2 of which that are on top of it staged, was too much. Probably the developers have realized this by now, so there should be no need to stress this point further.
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90 Undead Warlock
13670
Why is standing in Stormwind/Ogrimmar waiting for your number to be called to join a dungeon so exciting for that matter.


Because I can make a sandwich while doing that.
Can't make a sandwich while doing dailies.
Here's something totally funny and never heard off before... I pay to play, not to go afk untill my cue comes up. Making a sandwhich... yh I defo pay a sub fee to do that. You can make a sandwhich before or after the daillies, rediculous idea right? If it takes you forever to do those daillies that you go so hungry you're about to drop, maybe step up the pace? About 2 hrs is all you need to do all the daillies (Golden Lotus, Anglers, Tiller, Cloud Serpent, Shado-Pan, August Celestials, Klaxxi).

People having no patience is what's killing this game. "I want it now, not tomorrow!" "I want to 1shot this boss on my first try, not spend time learning!" "I want to be exalted in 1 day, not spend weeks playing this stupid game!" Don't like playing WoW? Quit! Simple.

Ask yourself why the F you pay for this game in the first place? To play it and have it last OR to fly through the content in 1 month and then wonder why you log in at all?
Edited by Geryon on 08/11/2012 18:27 GMT
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90 Human Warrior
12970
08/11/2012 17:59Posted by Thalbard
Probably the developers have realized this by now, so there should be no need to stress this point further.


I fail to see how exactly did they realize this, having in mind we have a CM here who keeps dodging some really good questions from the last few pages and keeps telling us (1) no we don't have to do those (of course, nobody's holding a gun to your head alright -- and yet he is the one saying we shouldn't argue on semantics level!) and (2) that we actually don't need the items from the rep vendors. For me this translates to "guys, this won't change, but I am offering you a way to look at it in a positive way". Sorry, no. :)

I think I counted 7 players thus far (me included), who keep asking the same thing:

Why not make spending VP and acquiring Charms have several alternatives to them?

Fine, don't add dungeon tabards. I understand your point Draztal -- it can be considered too much to not only award JP/VP and gear, but also grant reputation. Okay, agreed. But how about...


  • Make Scenarios award you 150-250 rep when you finish them, while wearing a tabard which only works in Scenarios.
  • Make Scenarios award you 15-20 Lesser Charms when you finish them.
  • Re-introduce Sha'tari Skyguard faction system: you can do dailies and/or grind mobs and also hand in tokens looted from the mobs. Really, why not? We are asking for effort here and you are denying us that. :P
  • Make Lesser Charms kinda like Motes of Harmony -- smallish chance to drop off everything you kill in Pandaria.
  • Make Lesser Charms have a small chance to be inside every plant, ore node and skinnable animal. These are coins alright; what's the issue with these coins dropped by anyone and lost in the bushes or below a mine? :) What's the problem if a skinnable animal ate something which also contained a Lesser Charm?


Dear Blizzard: I do remember you said Pandaria is gonna be about (1) players always having stuff to do, and (2) players having choice on how to approach their character progression. C'mon, stand by your promise.

08/11/2012 15:58Posted by Draztal
So, what should be changed on dailies so that they're fun to you? (and please don't say "remove them" or something that would turn them into something irrelevant, or we'd be missing the point of the question!)


And how many players said that, besides yourself? One? Two?

Answering your question: for some people (me included) dailies are highly unlikely to ever become fun. So don't change the dailies: introduce alternative means to achieve what they achieve. Why not?

See above. I believe Scenarios and world NPC grinding are undeveloped to their full potential in Pandaria, and expanding them to reward small amounts of rep and charms doesn't seem at all game-breaking.
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90 Human Hunter
10385

So, what should be changed on dailies so that they're fun to you? (and please don't say "remove them" or something that would turn them into something irrelevant, or we'd be missing the point of the question!)


3 keywords: Variety, tedious, cooperation.

If you are going have dailies no matter what. Then the following needs to happen:

* More variety:
Yeah you have some different quests, but its not enough. You should be able to do dailies for a week and not get the same quest. Then it would not feel as repetitive.

* Less tedious:
Currently most of the quests are kill 30 X of Y, pick up 50 Z from Y, or pick up 20 Z from Z(ground object). Not only is this just quite boring. Its mind-numbing. We already have done tons of these quests to 90 and they are not very memorable. When doing boring repeatable content we want it to be as quick as possible: Change the numbers from 12 to 2-3, 30 to 10 etc.

* Encourage cooperation:
Lots of players are doing dailies at the same time, lets say some of them love it(highly doubtfuL); but most probably hates it. What makes it even more terrible is the limit of mobs/items to loot. Examples:
- A douchy mage runs around like a madman and tags everything in front of a poor holy priest, which might not have the fastest reactions of players. The priest ends up with no tags which means no kills. The poor priest ends up having to wait for respawns and spends even longer on trying to get 110 rep.
- Golden Lotus ruins looting those funny tablets. John the Protectionpaladin with the amazing dps finds a tablet and proceed to clear the mobs in front of it. But hi there the friendly neighborhood druid swoops down in flying form and loots it in front of him. And John? Yeah he still has to use 30 seconds to kill the mob for no reason other than to try find another tablet.
So why don't just these people group up say you? Well, they might have. But the state of WoW makes them not. People in this day and age need incentives.:\
Solution to this crap? Share tags / questlooting.
Seeing a friendly character from the same faction should not inspire hate/anger. You should feel good that you see friendly player. (Don't misunderstand, Faction vs Faction is another matter).
I am afraid this is utopia for WoW, but if you manage to do something of what GW2 did right with this kind of system (and not the wrongs) then you will have money.

People ask why people complain, and in the end its all about this:

I just want the game I play and have been playing for many years to improve. Be the game it could have been.
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90 Undead Warlock
13670
So, what should be changed on dailies so that they're fun to you? (and please don't say "remove them" or something that would turn them into something irrelevant, or we'd be missing the point of the question!)

Just as an example, all the factions on Mists have rotating dailies (some of them are set, like the profession dailies for the Order of the Cloud Serpent and some of the Golden Lotus daily quests) and there's variety on them regarding what you do, which is not always kill this, gather that.


Unfortunatly, dispite that rotation, you still get (2 out of 3 times) the 'kill this, gather that' quests. Especially with the Golden Lotus, I just killed 12 Mogu, the next daily asked me the exact same thing again; kill Mogu.

Instead of 4-15 (boring, mindnumbing) daillies per faction that reward 275 rep (and 5 VP), make it 1 daily questchain per faction that rewards 1k rep (and 30 VP). Something that explains (in a narrated, storydriven way) why you are there helping or why that faction is there doing what it does. Perhaps have it lead upto a daily dungeon or scenario to finish up the chain (in which you are required to kill the last boss, that way people get to see the content too). You know... something that actually makes you feel like you're a part of the machine instead of something on the side that's just casually helping out. I call that emersion.
Edited by Geryon on 08/11/2012 18:35 GMT
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90 Pandaren Shaman
5135


Because I can make a sandwich while doing that.
Can't make a sandwich while doing dailies.
Here's something totally funny and never heard off before... I pay to play, not to go afk untill my cue comes up. Making a sandwhich... yh I defo pay a sub fee to do that.


lol true, another thing that should be thought about if an alternative is made.

These seem to be the main issues people have and worry about. if these were taken into account, would people be more inclined to accept an alternative way to grind rep?

Must take the same amount of time.

Must require same amount of effort.

Must not allow poeople to afk in town all day.

Please correct me if im wrong :)
Edited by Herase on 08/11/2012 18:33 GMT
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46 Dwarf Hunter
10995
08/11/2012 18:16Posted by Smackita
Probably the developers have realized this by now, so there should be no need to stress this point further.

I fail to see how exactly did they realize this,


If you follow the patch notes, hotfixes, etc., you see that the developers are clearly listening.

If anything, they are listening too much. Which I think is why a significant part of the community is tired of all this whining.

I, for one, do not want them to change the current faction structure or dailies. I just want them not to introduce that many factions with so important rewards on them at the same time again. If they are listening -- which they are -- this wont happen again and you'll see that if you keep playing the game.
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1 Blood Elf Warlock
0
08/11/2012 18:35Posted by Thalbard


I fail to see how exactly did they realize this,


If you follow the patch notes, hotfixes, etc., you see that the developers are clearly listening.

If anything, they are listening too much. Which I think is why a significant part of the community is tired of all this whining.

I, for one, do not want them to change the current faction structure or dailies. I just want them not to introduce that many factions with so important rewards on them at the same time again. If they are listening -- which they are -- this wont happen again and you'll see that if you keep playing the game.


they listen to im sick of dailies so they add in even more in 5.1 ?
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90 Undead Warlock
13670
Here's something totally funny and never heard off before... I pay to play, not to go afk untill my cue comes up. Making a sandwhich... yh I defo pay a sub fee to do that.


lol true, another thing that should be thought about if an alternative is made.

These seem to be the main issues people have and worry about. if these were taken into account, would people be more inclined to accept an alternative way to grind rep?

Must take the same amount of time.

Must require same amount of effort.

Must not allow poeople to afk in town all day.

Please correct me if im wrong :)
I'd say bring back the TBC way of grinding rep, farm dungeons (a specific dungeon for each faction). In addition to the daillies we have now. That way everybody who likes to pay a fee to go AFK and wait for the cue to pop is happy and people who cba to farm dungeons all day are happy too.
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85 Goblin Priest
11830
08/11/2012 18:39Posted by Wrekgar
they listen to im sick of dailies so they add in even more in 5.1 ?


they already made a few hotfixes to the factions so yes, they're listening all right.
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90 Undead Warlock
13670


If you follow the patch notes, hotfixes, etc., you see that the developers are clearly listening.

If anything, they are listening too much. Which I think is why a significant part of the community is tired of all this whining.

I, for one, do not want them to change the current faction structure or dailies. I just want them not to introduce that many factions with so important rewards on them at the same time again. If they are listening -- which they are -- this wont happen again and you'll see that if you keep playing the game.


they listen to im sick of dailies so they add in even more in 5.1 ?
If you're not exalted (or even revered, which is the one that matters gearwise) with everything in 5.1, you're slacking. Plain and simple. Same if you've not managed to get through Mogu-shan Vaults by that time (you get better gear than those rep rewards).

There's only 1 new faction with daillies comming anyway, not 5.
Edited by Geryon on 08/11/2012 18:48 GMT
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46 Dwarf Hunter
10995
they listen to im sick of dailies so they add in even more in 5.1 ?


Are you saying that since YOU don't like dailies, there should be no dailies in the game?

I guess there is not one single component of the game that is liked by everybody, so by extension then the game would not exist if they were to operate in that fashion.

Why not rather give constructive feedback on what could be ADDED to the game to make it better?

Dailies should be kept, and with significant rewards, for those players who like that type of content. If you don't like them, don't do them. I, for one, am slowing down on them since I've had my fill. Many have, and I am sure this lesson has been learned. This was too much this time.

But if you want impact for your criticism, I think that is much easier to achieve if you give constructive feedback on what could be added to the game rather than insisting on taking out content that has a following in the game. Taking out content is just going to decrease the lifetime of the game and thereby hurt everybody who likes any of it.
Edited by Thalbard on 08/11/2012 18:53 GMT
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56 Night Elf Priest
2085
Dailies in their current iteration, exist for one reason and that it to keep you all logging in like the pixel addicted sheep you truly are.
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