Tired of players complaining about putting in effort!

90 Undead Warlock
13670
In TBC the epics were more in silver platter than Cata or MOP.
Badges didnt have limit, guild grps was able to farm tons in week, atm we get only 1000 VP s per week.

A valor cap is something else, I vote for it to be removed.


Yeah but whats the point if you cant spend it without mindless grind?
Well that is a different matter tbh. I agree it is stupid to grind tons of rep and then still needing tons of VP to even buy what you alrdy unlocked (weeks ago). No VP cap would solve that imo.

Well another solution to meet almost everyone halfway would be to give a 50% bonus to rep gain once you're honored and a 100% bonus to rep gain at revered. Something like this is comming in 5.1 though. But also get rid of that VP cap.

2nd Solution would be to (as I've posted here before) give each faction a dailyquestchain of 4-8 quests that end in you killing a big mob or boss (dungeon/scenario). you get 1k rep for completing it plus a satchel that can either give you VP (50-300 and go OVER the cap) or additional rep (300-500).
Edited by Geryon on 08/11/2012 21:15 GMT
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90 Worgen Druid
5045
Fair point but answer me this "what’s wrong with having another way to grind rep? if the outcome is the same, meaning effort and time wise?

no one has yet answered this question and just repeated themselves saying "you dont need them" in ways i can agree, but i don’t see how this will affect anyone who enjoys doing the daily quests and why people are getting hot an flustered over it :(. we’re not asking to remove it and as long as it takes the same length of time and "effort". What is the actual problem?

I would like the blue post to answer this as well please.


Well with tabards you could grind to exalted within a day or 2, something I think they don't want. And it's not really the same effort as with dailies, as you will be doing heroics anyway, thus getting reputation will just be an added bonus to something you are already doing.
Edited by Ravinne on 08/11/2012 21:33 GMT
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90 Night Elf Druid
8050
I find these rewards more awesome
Reins of the Blue Shado-Pan Riding Tiger
Reins of the Green Shado-Pan Riding Tiger
Reins of the Red Shado-Pan Riding Tiger
.... I need to do more dailies...
Anyways, i have no problem with dailies, either i do them or ignore them and do other things. That simple. I do more dailies on my warrior these days than this char for the last few weeks. It dependes what i want to do. Still i find myself at times standing still and going afk as i'm doing other things around the house or draw.
Main reason i do dailies is 'cause of the mounts (And gear at some point). At least you have something to do instead of complaining like people did in cata that there was nothing to do. This is a good change that Blizz have done this that you are not just standing still.
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90 Human Warrior
12970
08/11/2012 21:32Posted by Ravinne
Well with tabards you could grind to exalted within a day or 2, something I think they don't want. And it's not really the same effort as with dailies, as you will be doing heroics anyway, thus getting reputation will just be an added bonus to something you are already doing.


It's really sad you don't read back in the thread. Me and several others already agreed that the dungeon tabards are probably too much to ask -- because you already get JP, and VP, and gear from them, so having them give you rep as well might indeed be pushing it.

But what's wrong with having NPCs you can farm for hours, each giving you 10 rep? And loot tokens off them which you could hand in for some more rep, too?

Reference: TBC's faction Sha'tari Skyguard.
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90 Worgen Druid
5045
08/11/2012 21:39Posted by Smackita
Well with tabards you could grind to exalted within a day or 2, something I think they don't want. And it's not really the same effort as with dailies, as you will be doing heroics anyway, thus getting reputation will just be an added bonus to something you are already doing.


It's really sad you don't read back in the thread. Me and several others already agreed that the dungeon tabards are probably too much to ask -- because you already get JP, and VP, and gear from them, so having them give you rep as well might indeed be pushing it.

But what's wrong with having NPCs you can farm for hours, each giving you 10 rep? And loot tokens off them which you could hand in for some more rep, too?

Reference: TBC's faction Sha'tari Skyguard.


Sorry for not reading every post, where to demand rep tabards and later realized how fail it is. It would still make it possible to get exalted within a day or 2, something that seems pretty obvious that they don't want us to.
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90 Human Warrior
12970
08/11/2012 21:42Posted by Ravinne
Sorry for not reading every post, where to demand rep tabards and later realized how fail it is. It would still make it possible to get exalted within a day or 2, something that seems pretty obvious that they don't want us to.


That indeed seems to be the case, and that I find really sad and cheap from them.

Obviously, "progressing at your own pace" is too much to ask. :S
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90 Goblin Shaman
9100
08/11/2012 08:49Posted by Vot
For the next person who is about to type "your not forced to do them" please concider how many people would do them by choice if these essential items wern't hidden behind them, before posting.


Don't really care. If you want an item put your back into it, you could have been exalted 2 weeks ago.
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90 Human Warlock
14370
08/11/2012 15:58Posted by Draztal
So, what should be changed on dailies so that they're fun to you? (and please don't say "remove them" or something that would turn them into something irrelevant, or we'd be missing the point of the question!)

I missed this, since I posted at the same time as you, but did alude to a possible solution in that post. I'll expand on it.

Each faction could have a daily rep cap, that could be reached doing dailies as they are now; but those dailies could, and should include quests that involve entering Heroics and/or Scenarios for bigger rep gains than the standard solo quests. That would limit the amount of necessary dailies per-faction, while getting players out and doing what they want to do.
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90 Worgen Druid
5045
08/11/2012 21:44Posted by Smackita
Sorry for not reading every post, where to demand rep tabards and later realized how fail it is. It would still make it possible to get exalted within a day or 2, something that seems pretty obvious that they don't want us to.


That indeed seems to be the case, and that I find really sad and cheap from them.

Obviously, "progressing at your own pace" is too much to ask. :S


There is alternate ways of getting rep btw, just not as fast as tabard/mob grinding. You got the keys for golden lotus, crystals for klaxxi, various gifts for tillers, flying fish for anglers. Not sure is there is any for shado-pan and celestials though.
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90 Human Warrior
12970
08/11/2012 22:52Posted by Ravinne
There is alternate ways of getting rep btw, just not as fast as tabard/mob grinding. You got the keys for golden lotus, crystals for klaxxi, various gifts for tillers, flying fish for anglers. Not sure is there is any for shado-pan and celestials though.


For the ~22 days I endured the dailies, I only looted 1 key for Golden Lotus, and was able to hand in crystals for Klaxxi 2 times. Says a lot about the drop rate. :P
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90 Pandaren Shaman
0
Its true but consider if you do you get bored lot quicker off the game, While if you take your time you have more fun playing the game lot longer.
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90 Worgen Druid
5045
08/11/2012 23:20Posted by Smackita
There is alternate ways of getting rep btw, just not as fast as tabard/mob grinding. You got the keys for golden lotus, crystals for klaxxi, various gifts for tillers, flying fish for anglers. Not sure is there is any for shado-pan and celestials though.


For the ~22 days I endured the dailies, I only looted 1 key for Golden Lotus, and was able to hand in crystals for Klaxxi 2 times. Says a lot about the drop rate. :P


Drops rates aren't high I know. But if you were to constantly grind mobs that doprs crystals for example, the way you would grind them if they all gave 10 rep each, it would be different. Well drop rate would ofcourse be the same, but you would get them at a higher rate. Checking wowhead there seems to be people that found good places to grind crystals and keys for rep.
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90 Undead Warlock
13670
08/11/2012 08:49Posted by Vot
For the next person who is about to type "your not forced to do them" please concider how many people would do them by choice if these essential items wern't hidden behind them, before posting.
You're not forced because:
1)The blue rewards also come from (heroic)dungeons.
2)The purple rewards also come from Raid(finder) and you don't need to be full epic to start raiding.
3)Mounts are vanity items which are not needed (if they dropped in dungeons, they wouldn't be easy to get either). Time versus reward ratio is the same.
4)Recipe's will not break your game, else you'd need to have every single profession too (other people can craft you gear from recipe's or you can buy it on the AH). Grind rep or spend a lot of gold, sounds like balance to me.
5) VP's also come from dungeons (which you won't need if you also raid).

Hardcore people are kinda forced into it, getting maximum efficiency out of your character in every possible way (min/maxing), then again hardcore's always have to go the length to keep that edge in the competition. So instead of grinding the same dungeons over and over again for that one rare epic to drop, they just hit Revered and buy it (takes the same effort/time without depending on other people). But a non-hardcore isn't and can take his sweet time to complete them, because the alternative is to be done with all of the content in just a few weeks and log in to afk. It is a cheap way to stretch the content though. The only possible reason you might be forced to daily, is because of the Charms of Fortune, but since they are not guaranteed loot coins, you might as well save yourself the trouble of earning them. (I've spent 9 of the Elder Charms so far and gotten NOTHING extra for it. That's 270 Lesser Charms down the drain, you do the math how may daillies those are worth.)

EDIT:
Sunday I'll hit Exalted with the August Celestials. I'll be done with every dailly and I'll be Exalted with all the factions (except the Black Prince). I've been doing them ALL since I hit lvl 90 (the day after MoP launched). The result is that now I basicly log in to do nothing, except play some farmville or help out a guildie. I hardly ran any dungeon to get gear, I'm going to be overgearing the current tier of raids without having done a normal raid at all.

So instead of running heroics without end like I've been doing the past 7 years, I burned through the reputation grind for a change and got to the same point (not a pleasant change, but a change non theless).

In short, the rep grind is just an alternative to the endless dungeon grinding. They're both 2 different means to the same end. Don't like one, do the other. Once you've come to that point where raiding is the only way to get better gear, (heroic)dungeons OR rep will no longer matter. So which ever path you choose to get geared, it will make the other trivial. Only thing left are achievements, but they're called achievements for a reason anyway.
Edited by Geryon on 09/11/2012 02:11 GMT
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90 Worgen Hunter
8870
I missed this, since I posted at the same time as you, but did alude to a possible solution in that post. I'll expand on it.

Each faction could have a daily rep cap, that could be reached doing dailies as they are now; but those dailies could, and should include quests that involve entering Heroics and/or Scenarios for bigger rep gains than the standard solo quests. That would limit the amount of necessary dailies per-faction, while getting players out and doing what they want to do.


A daily rep cap? You can only do so many dailies for a faction already - that's already in place. This is like suggesting another forced linking of 10 and 25 man raids. Learn some !@#$%^- self control. Do as much as you feel you need to. Hell, half the reps you only really have to reach honoured or revered with, for whatever you may need from them.

On top of that, only 3 of the factions can be deemed as being 'necessary'. And that's only if you're a hardcore raider who wants to max out their gear asap. And still, you only needed to hit Revered with those 3. Not even the final grind to Exalted.

Yeah, people are complaining about getting to Revered these days. What the hells going any more?
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90 Night Elf Warrior
10525
06/11/2012 07:37Posted by Veix
Even your fishing isnt 600 atm


Now THATS effort.
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86 Draenei Hunter
2155
Even your fishing isnt 600 atm


Now THATS effort.

When it comes to standard professions like fishing, cooking and such, who gives a ****.

I have a lvl 60 tailor who has only gained 10 in first aid because they had some linen cloth left over when the tailoring profession started using silk. TBH, the bandages don't even heal half your health so, to me anyway, there's not much point when pots do a better job and they are instant. I don't bother with cooking or fishing really for the same reason.

Dailies however come with a decent reward and in my view, are worth doing, even if they do get boring.
Edited by Tiarama on 09/11/2012 03:16 GMT
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20 Tauren Warrior
8905

Also, I find this mount a good reason to get Shado-Pan to exalted: Reins of the Onyx Cloud Serpent


Not really. I rather would like to avoid your bad daily quest design than to grind up to exalted to get your ugly mounts. I did that for the cloud serpents and for the anglers, those daily quests werent fun at all. Poop-quests.. as like collecting the poop piles for the cloud serpent.. really, sir, what do your game designers feel by implementing that? "Haha, look, how they have to collect poop to get exalted! Ha, Ha!"?

What you, draztal, and your parrots on this forums construct as a fallacy, is, that you say people wont like to put in "effort" into the progress, which just is as constructed as your responses to lfr-hate-threads.

People want to put in effort, but they want to have a diverse game play. An example: if i want to level up, i may use questing for that. But i also may use battlegrounds for that. I also may use dungeons.

Where is the "do what you like for your progression" your designers talked about at blizzcon?

If you want to "level up" your reputation at level 90, the only way to do that is by daily quests, and by really bad designed daily quests (open world quest items to collect, where you compete with 100 other people doing the dailies at the same time).

Allow people to get buffs from the quartermasters to fight in battlegrounds, arenas, dungeons and scenarios for their favorite faction instead of gaining honor, justice, valor or conquest points. Diversify the game..

And hey, draztal, stop constructing and supporting fallacies in your discussions, and try to answer to controverse discussion which just dont want the tabards back. I think most people understand that your designers think that tabards are too easy to obtain reputation. But that doesnt mean you have to put all your players into daily-quest concentration camps to "work hard" utilizing monotonous single ways they dont like to do.. This is still a game, draztal, and no playground for fanatic game designers, who just know one way. Learn to make solutions which dont implement the complete vice versa of what it was before just to follow some silly "design mantra".. Think a little bit longer about the consequencies of what your designers implement..

Oh, and btw., please stop constructing "massive feedback" against lfr by blue tagging whiner threads. Or do you want your devs to nerf lfr even more because some whiny wannabe-hardcore gamers ask you to? Thats redicoulous.
Edited by Schmonz on 09/11/2012 08:12 GMT
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90 Human Mage
17260
Have you tried the Cloud Serpent race? That was fun (at least for me).
Visually impaired here combined with not the best pc in the world forced me to download an addon to even see the markers.

Also, when I was getting all the way to Exalted with the Klaxxi, I enjoyed the mechanic of the buffs Seek and Destroy (which you can get at Revered after freeing Hisek) and Unstable Serum, which is particularly useful to clear large groups of adds.
Getting outnumbered 10 to 1 by alliance make this an excercize in patience. Combined with the weird buff proc it's even worse since, well, zerggank.

06/11/2012 10:15Posted by Draztal
The dailies at The Temple of the White Tiger (The tournament that Xuen organizes there) are also quick and fun.


10 alliance ganking on the bridge while trying to run the flame was especially fun. The GM's not being able to do anything even though it's griefing was even more of an eye opener.

06/11/2012 10:15Posted by Draztal
Yes, they don't require a massive effort. But what would be the fun of a game if everything required some kind of monumental effort to push through.
If it was challenging I'd agree, but it's not. It's all too simple making it a matter of time, not effort. Aimed at something other then developing the skills you so eloquently account to progress in that other thread. Exercise in patience.

Also, I find this mount a good reason to get Shado-Pan to exalted: Reins of the Onyx Cloud Serpent
It's very pretty.


By effort you mean sweat? Go to work, do some labor and you have effort. Have you ever thought that for some, the time spent = effort?

Cloud serpent race is fun the first few times, then it's dull.
Edited by Logix on 09/11/2012 08:31 GMT
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90 Worgen Death Knight
9220
Hi!

Dailies, LFR, heroics, craftables. Players whine. But why?
Always saying stuff like:
"I need to do LFR to stay competitive."
"I must do 2 hours of dailies every day to get the best pre-raid gear."
"I must farm heroics for items."
"I must buy expensive craftables."

Hey! My name is Laniala, I'm a mage, I've been playing since vanilla and raiding since TBC, obviously that is not the point but I just want to say...
STOP complaining. Just STOP.

You say your guild wants to stay competitive. I hear you man, I really do. So do we and a lot of other guilds. And you know what? It's part of the task. If you want to be a COMPETITIVE raiding guild, then you will do everything to get the best out of your character.

If you don't like this or it feels like a "chore", then stop doing that but accept you're not cut out of the right wood to be a 'competitive' player. Competitive equals a lot of effort, something you are not willing to put in the game.

The "horrendous, terrible farming" you have to put up with isn't really so bad. This is what you signed up for when you started calling yourself a competitive player.

You really aren't one though, so maybe it's time to accept your a casual and that all the things you're doing to get an 'edge' really don't matter at rank 20.000 world wide that your guild is at.

And please stop speaking for me, like you represent the "competitive playerbase". You don't. You're awful and we facepalm every time one of you awful people call yourself competitive cause you managed to do 8/8 DS HC in Cataclysm.

Rant over.

With love,
Laniala


I believe that you are the type of person who think that rules are always followed without any question, no matter if the rule is wrong or not...it's just a rule and you must follow it.

Lots of people differs from you....so stop complaining about people who complains dude, I mean...why is that bothering you?
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90 Human Warlock
14370
A daily rep cap? You can only do so many dailies for a faction already - that's already in place. This is like suggesting another forced linking of 10 and 25 man raids. Learn some !@#$%^- self control. Do as much as you feel you need to. Hell, half the reps you only really have to reach honoured or revered with, for whatever you may need from them.

On top of that, only 3 of the factions can be deemed as being 'necessary'. And that's only if you're a hardcore raider who wants to max out their gear asap. And still, you only needed to hit Revered with those 3. Not even the final grind to Exalted.

Yeah, people are complaining about getting to Revered these days. What the hells going any more?

People are asking for another way to gain Rep, just as they wanted another way to gain VPs. That's not really being lazy. I'd probably still use dailies; I still do for VPs afterall, but I do kind of a agree it's a bit disingenuous to say "You can't have Rep for doing Dungeons because they provide enough anyway in terms of VPs/gear", then say "You can have Rep and VPs, and gear, and non-combat shinies for doing Dailies". I'm just suggesting dungeons could be an alternative route to put something towards your Rep, if it's limited. The idea of a per-faction cap would be to prevent the feeling of having to do dailies and the dungeon.

An alternative would be to turn in all those otherwise completely useless Justice Points for Rep.
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