Tired of players complaining about putting in effort!

90 Human Warrior
12970
Not doing dailies means not having a reason to do dungeons either, because of being rewarded in a currency that's entirely worthless unless you have ways to spend it. Last time I've seen that was in the GDR, former East Germany, where store shelves would simply be empty, regardless of how much "money" you'd be sitting on.

Also fail to see the "effort" part, when it's in fact just about having the time and patience to do the same amount of limited repetition day after day. Can't do overtime to reach my silly goal faster, and instead have to progress at the pace it's being dictated. Very much like your employer not allowing you to work overtime.

I mindlessly killed ogres and twilight dudes for hours and hours just to gain rep and it didn't bother me because I didn't have to. My standing with those factions had absolutely no impact on my PvE progress. THAT was effort.

Daily repetition as the only way to progress, however, is not effort but a freaking job.


Damn it, you ALMOST saved me posting there, covers NEARLY all I want to say on the subject.
The only thing I would add, is that if they separated valour rewards from rep, then I would actual be MORE inclined to do dalies, as less people would have the rep and the cosmetic rewards that go with it, they would still be special. As it is, everyone is doing dalies, so everyone will have the mounts etc, so they don't feel special at all.


Love you both! <3

Most of your posts, I couldn't have said it better.
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85 Goblin Warlock
3605
ty :)

Quick proof -
Number of people with sunreaver Dragonhawk - Still feels a little special
Number of people with cloud serpent - feel special at all, sat next to 5 others on their cloud serpents? worth the daily grind?

And yet the dragonhawk was probably more of a grind to get but oh so much more worth while as people wernt forced in to argent dalies.
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90 Undead Warlock
6545

Whoever said you HAVE to do the dailies?

Seriously, that argument has been beaten down so many times its becoming ridiculous.


That is the dumbest and most pointless response so far in this thread.

You are certainly in my top five most stupid people to ever have posted in any forum.

10/10 for making yourself look ridiculous.

Edit:

Just spent from 5.30pm until now 11.00pm doing dailies on two chars (Tillers, Klaxxi, Anglers and Golden Lotus).

I feel shell shocked and tired, it was NOT an enjoyable experience but in order to improve my char and crafting skills I HAVE to do it.
Edited by Insane on 07/11/2012 23:13 GMT
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90 Human Warrior
12970
07/11/2012 22:58Posted by Vot
And yet the dragonhawk was probably more of a grind to get but oh so much more worth while as people wernt forced in to argent dalies.

Agreed. What the OP and his supporters keep missing (or deliberately close their eyes for) are those points:


  • We don't want gear handed to us.
  • We don't want to AFK in cities for LFD / LFR and do nothing else.
  • We don't think that "effort" equals "dailies". Dailies for us are boring, time-consuming, require no thought at all, don't bond you to your character, and they don't develop any new skills.
  • We do want to put effort in the game, but we would like alternatives. Remember Sha'tari Skyguard from TBC? Yes, they did have dailies, but if you wanted to progress at your own pace, you could go out and kill mobs, and every kill rewarded you 10 rep. You would also loot tokens from them which you could then hand in for some more rep. That's giving you choices on how to max that rep. Right now, you got no choice. Either do dailies or VP is a useless currency for you.
  • No, we don't want to be grateful that it's not even worse compared to before -- people keep referring to TBC. Yes it was harder. So?
  • And finally, no, you cannot put all the people who disagree with you into ONE group of players which don't wanna put any effort about anything. Granted, there are such, but the fact that some amount of people detest dailies, doesn't automatically make them spoiled kids. Sorry.
Edited by Smackita on 07/11/2012 23:22 GMT
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90 Worgen Druid
5045

Whoever said you HAVE to do the dailies?

Seriously, that argument has been beaten down so many times its becoming ridiculous.


That is the dumbest and most pointless response so far in this thread.

You are certainly in my top five most stupid people to ever have posted in any forum.

10/10 for making yourself look ridiculous.

Edit:

Just spent from 5.30pm until now 11.00pm doing dailies on two chars (Tillers, Klaxxi, Anglers and Golden Lotus).

I feel shell shocked and tired, it was NOT an enjoyable experience but in order to improve my char and crafting skills I HAVE to do it.


If you hate dailies so much and they exhaust you, then why on earth are you doing dailies for tillers and the anglers? They have absolutely no items that make you progress faster, and they don't sell anything at all for VP.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8850
I got the sunreaver dragonhawk aswell and yes it was a boring grind, but as I said, you have time enough , and you can just do them while queueing up for stuff, done queueing? np stop doing the dailies.

Im ok with doing them, but not to be able to spend JP and VP.
For special skin armor or mounts , sure. For some better enchants sure. For fun items sure.

anyway I just think its wrong to force ppl to get rep with a certain faction. Why not make it so you need to be revered with one or 2 factions of choice? This will also remove the bottleneck feeling because everyone and their mom are doing those golden lotus dailies. All the other dailies go fast , but those golden lotus take ages. Actualy spend 20 minutes to finish the quest where you had to destroy mogue statues because there were 15 ppl doing the same thing -_- You try to invite a few , they all decline.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
11290
I just hate the rep grind via these godawefull dailies. Gimme back the tabard championing. Atleast then i'll be spending my time in dungeons and not playing whack a mole with some fireflies or bandaging serpents.
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90 Human Hunter
10385
Its funny how its less boring to just grind mobs for rep than to do the dailies. Blizzard has failed.

Id rather do 10x Black Prince grinds than another daily. In other words i can do it at my pace and not something set by the game. If i want to grind for 30 hours straight let me, don't force me to log in every day to do the same thing for 2-3 hours.
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90 Goblin Shaman
9100
08/11/2012 06:21Posted by Torsdag
If i want to grind for 30 hours straight let me, don't force me to log in every day to do the same thing for 2-3 hours.


What?
So instead of killing those mobs trough quests and earn some extra gold or an item, you would rather kill the same mobs for the same rep without quests or any extra benefit for the same amount of time? I don't think you thought this trough.

Nobody is forcing you to do anything, you can do this reputation's now or in 2 years it's all up to you.
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85 Goblin Warlock
3605
08/11/2012 08:16Posted by Mezodox
Nobody is forcing you to do anything


Please read the previous posts, we have already proven that by hiding valour items and crafting paterns behind reputation, and then by only allowing us to get the rep via dailies, they acctualy ARE FORCING people to do dalies.

What the majority of people are asking for, is to untie VP and carafting paterns from rep, turning dalies in to a grind for cosmetic only items (and hence non manditory) reducing the number of people doing them dramaticly (because they are not fun, and people arn't doing them from choice) making them more fun for the people who acctually want to do them, and making their cosmetic rewards feel a bit more special.

For the next person who is about to type "your not forced to do them" please concider how many people would do them by choice if these essential items wern't hidden behind them, before posting.
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90 Goblin Shaman
7000

If you hate dailies so much and they exhaust you, then why on earth are you doing dailies for tillers and the anglers? They have absolutely no items that make you progress faster, and they don't sell anything at all for VP.


Arguably you need tillers for the crafting flowers. I do them because of the songbell herbs. I don't earn enough gold to buy golden lotus in the amount I need to make potions and gems, neither do I have the time to grind enough mobs to get the motes. Tillers gave me a sure Spirit of Harmony once a day and that allows me to do my craft so, imo Tillers = Crafting.

Just like you need Shado-pan to get your enchants when you're an enchanter etc.

Anglers I am not so sure about, I know you get a mount but I've never visited the quartermaster so can't say.
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52 Troll Mage
5620
Dailies don't require effort.
Dailies require time.

That's quite a difference.


this guy just buried your rant with good old logic.
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90 Troll Hunter
12045
Daylies isnt effort, its just waste of time for something really boring.


agreed

I don't mind if can't get epic's without grinding rep with several factions, but the problem for me is that there isn't any other use for valor points than the gear. You cannot even convert them to conquest points anymore so there's no use for valor points if u don't want to grind those horribly boring dailies.
Edited by Zulamja on 08/11/2012 10:00 GMT
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08/11/2012 08:49Posted by Vot
For the next person who is about to type "your not forced to do them" please concider how many people would do them by choice if these essential items wern't hidden behind them, before posting.


They aren't really essential though. If you don't want to learn the patterns, you don't have to. Of course, you'll have to go find someone that has them so you can use those items, and you won't be making a profit off them. That's a choice. Just as the player next to you that decides to go and invest time on raising a particular faction because he feels it's worth the effort.

Same goes with items for PVE. If you'd rather get those first instead of waiting for the epic item drop from normal raids, that's your choice as well.

08/11/2012 08:49Posted by Vot
Please read the previous posts, we have already proven that by hiding valour items and crafting paterns behind reputation, and then by only allowing us to get the rep via dailies, they acctualy ARE FORCING people to do dalies.


Only if you truly want them. The right question is: do you really need those? If you want the patterns to make a profit of those, makes sense to me you've got to put some effort getting there, if it's for your guild raiding efforts, then hey, I'd see it as part of the effort to be at the top of your game.

The thing is, if you truly, truly, don't want to grind your reputation for a particular pattern, there's 99% chance someone on your realm, or even guild, may have taken the time and effort to get them and you'll be able to get whatever you need from them instead.
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90 Human Warrior
12970
08/11/2012 08:16Posted by Mezodox
If i want to grind for 30 hours straight let me, don't force me to log in every day to do the same thing for 2-3 hours.


What?
So instead of killing those mobs trough quests and earn some extra gold or an item, you would rather kill the same mobs for the same rep without quests or any extra benefit for the same amount of time? I don't think you thought this trough.

Nobody is forcing you to do anything, you can do this reputation's now or in 2 years it's all up to you.


Congratulations, you just discovered subjectivity. Who said there must be a thought process behind preferences? Yes, him, me and others, are enjoying progressing at our own pace and via other means than dailies. Any problem with us not being your clones?
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90 Human Warrior
12970
They aren't really essential though. If you don't want to learn the patterns, you don't have to. Of course, you'll have to go find someone that has them so you can use those items, and you won't be making a profit off them. That's a choice. Just as the player next to you that decides to go and invest time on raising a particular faction because he feels it's worth the effort.

Same goes with items for PVE. If you'd rather get those first instead of waiting for the epic item drop from normal raids, that's your choice as well.


Sorry, they are essential. I would really like to see you address this particular point: What if the people in question are team-driven, nobody puts pressure on them (but themselves), and they want to help their raid team progress? Not everything in the raids is gear, just as not everything is a skill; be skilled all you like, you cannot even beat the first boss in MSV if half the raid is wearing greens. For example, my raid team has a few dps who are failing to avoid non-lethal raid damage sources, which, when they build up over a course of the first 3-4 mins of a fight, actually OOM our healers. Boom, wipe. They are good players, but obviously need time to adjust to the raiding mindset.

It's a simple math, really. There are gear issues and skill issues. Each one of both can cover for the other (to a certain extent of course). People are striving to improve their skill alright; in the meantime, having an upgrade or two might tilt the scales enough for us to score.

And I cannot comprehend your firm defense of the dailies by themselves. Did you read the last few pages? Me and several others are saying it in clear text: we don't want gear handed to us without any effort! We want the effort to have alternatives. Wasn't the philosophy behind MoP: (1) to give players stuff to do, and (2) to give them alternative means to achieve character progression? And don't get me wrong -- I believe this goal is mostly achieved; but on the reputation front, it is not. There is no choice on how to farm your rep. Why is that so hard to acknowledge and adress in a CM reply? Baffling.

08/11/2012 11:10Posted by Draztal
Only if you truly want them. The right question is: do you really need those? If you want the patterns to make a profit of those, makes sense to me you've got to put some effort getting there, if it's for your guild raiding efforts, then hey, I'd see it as part of the effort to be at the top of your game.


We know the right question, we asked ourselves the right question, and we answered "yes". Yes, we want the items. Yes, we want to put effort. No, we don't perceive dailies as an effort -- it's a daily time-sink, requires no thought and doesn't improve any of your skills, except maybe stoic patience.

If you know, or are willing to answer, I would very much like to know the following.

Explanation before the question: Sha'tari Skyguard have a few dailies, but, their daily zone is populated by NPCs which give you 10 rep when you killed them. You also loot tokens from them and hand them in for some more rep.

Why having the Sha'tari Skyguard type of factions is a bad idea in Pandaria?
Edited by Smackita on 08/11/2012 11:47 GMT
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It's no use arguing, Draztal. These people have personal issues that make them feel forced to do something, while they actually aren't forced at all.
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90 Tauren Paladin
14330
If you wish to be at the forefront of rankings, or get the most out of the short period where crafting professions are in high demand but low supply, you will have done dailies and already be done with them now.

I got revered with every faction I required, falling short on the ones I had agreed within my guild that someone else will get first - we divided our time to make the most of the precious time we have. I even did Order of the Cloud Serpent and Anglers because they were simply just fun to do and/or gave me stacks of cooking ingredients passively that I use in raids.

At this point in the expansion, dailies shouldn't be a problem - I agree it was torture for the first 4 weeks after release but as with every new content patch, I expected it. Also remember there are new items coming in the next patch that will allow revered characters to progress at an increased rate to exalted, effectively nodding to the community that you should probably wait a bit before getting exalted, unless you really do enjoy these dailies.
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11 Troll Warrior
0
08/11/2012 11:10Posted by Draztal
Same goes with items for PVE. If you'd rather get those first instead of waiting for the epic item drop from normal raids, that's your choice as well.


Despite using up my 3 coins each week, for the past 2 weeks I've gotten no loot from raids. The week before I got boots that were a downgrade (because I'd done Sha previously and those boots were an upgrade).

Now, I'm 3+ weeks behind everyone else. So what else can I do? I can either do dailies or fall so far behind that I don't catch up. Therefore I'm FORCED to do these tedious dailies.

I wouldn't mind if they were enjoyable - the Tillers for some reason were enjoyable. I think it was because they were quick and you had the ever increasing 55 rep per crop harvest to add to that.

Golden Pagoda dailies makes you (for example) fight Mogu with nearly 600k hp, slowing down killing and slowing down the progression. Then you get a cheap 110 rep per hand in. That's not fun.

Then you have the Shado-Pan dailies that today sent me to have to pull a ton of mobs and aoe them down. When the area is that small, then bad pulls become common.

Then the August Celestials had me fighting 25 mobs with half of them not counting because of the NPCs. Best part is when they overspawn and force you to run or die.

Basically what I'm saying is that the dailies are frustrating and tedious. They are slow and force you to do them for weeks, making it all the worse. Without an alternative (tabard and rep farming in instances), and with my current streak of luck in raids, I'm stuck doing dailies for ages.

This isn't about effort. This is about being forced to do frustrating, tedious and slow paced quests all in the name of dragging it out.

Easy solutions include:

Massive increase in rep gain
Allow us to farm instances
Improve how loot drops in LFR (as in drop chance increases, or the coins result in more loot and less gold).

I can handle a bit of tedious gameplay, I just don't want to have to handle it every day for weeks.
Edited by Goc on 08/11/2012 11:59 GMT
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90 Tauren Druid
18750
I love you Draztal, I'm sick of hearing the "I'm forced to do it" thing.
It's good to see that Blizzard has a solid position about this.
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