Spectator mode in Arena?

90 Tauren Warrior
9765
16/11/2012 14:21Posted by Lordofmagic
the number that would actually use it regularly or even continue to use after its initial release is quite low


That's just not true.

The whole pvp community would use it for as long as this game lasts.


lol its the same with skirmish arena.

Blizzard claim it was never used, however I could 2am at night still get inside 2v2 arena in less than 1 min queue. and usally 3-5 mins on 3v3.
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26 Blood Elf Hunter
9950
16/11/2012 12:43Posted by Nakatoir
A spectator mode is something that we think would be a really cool feature and we would like to implement one. The main problem is that it's a huge feature and simply a matter of being able to getting around to creating it. So hopefully at some point in the future we may do this, but right now we do not have any plans to create a spectator mode.


Why not do a poll then on the front page of battle.net/wow/en

MORE daily quests &Scenarios or Spectator Modes for Dungeons, Raids, Arenas and BGs.

Think we all know which is going to win.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
11060
A spectator mode is something that we think would be a really cool feature and we would like to implement one. The main problem is that it's a huge feature and simply a matter of being able to getting around to creating it. So hopefully at some point in the future we may do this, but right now we do not have any plans to create a spectator mode.
Erm, you already have a Spectator Client?

Or is the one that we've been seeing im MLG and BlizzCon just not really been there? Your wording hints that one doesn't exist.

I'm believing what you're trying to say is that you're just not ready to give it to us. You have tools, but those tools require access levels to be used. Teleports, target's vision etc. and to see current arena matches being played.

Question is, why not?
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90 Worgen Druid
9745
I think the biggest concern Blizzard are looking at with regards to this is somehow allowing public games watchable by all people, which requires a fundamental change to the codebase so that the players spectating do not send each other and the people playing info about their location, which causes the amount of data sent to be exponential. It would really suck an arena match at high rating suddenly started lagging like you were outside Stormwind.

I completely understand this concern and I think it's absolutely legitimate - however there is a smaller thing you can do which doesn't require these fundamental structural changes and which I do believe can tide people over for a good while...

Spectators in Wargames!

This, I feel, is extremely important to the e-sports scene (the little of it that's left anyway) where they want to be able to host arena matches and pre-define spectators who can watch and comment the game without having to be killed off before the gate opens.

Now, this isn't too important for 3v3, because you can just "hack" your way out of it with various utilities, addons and requirements but ultimately it's quite cumbersome - not unlike what the professional scene was doing with SC1 back in 1999.

This stuff just doesn't fly in 2012 though, and it gets even worse, because you can't do this for 5v5 games or 10v10 battleground games because the upper limit of RBG's simply won't let you. At some point people were holding an 8v8 RBG tournament which was kindda cool but this isn't really something players can practice for so it falls pretty flat pretty fast.

When starting a wargame, allow players to invite a group leader of a spectator team - a 3rd team if you will. Turn them into extremely quickly moving ghosts right at the start of the game and allow them to see the action.

With this design, the lag issue is not a problem. Down the line you may be looking at spectator features in rated arenas but until then this will do just fine. You've never allowed that in any other game ever anyway, I don't think anybody really cares.

Oh, and, on a more flaming side: There's a private server out there who has a bigger PvP playerbase than any live battlegroup, perhaps even several combined, who actually have a rated game spectator mode and it works just fine. I mean really, I think you could do it relatively quickly if you tried. And you should try, it's important.
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81 Orc Hunter
1225
16/11/2012 15:27Posted by Nakatoir
This would take a great deal of time to create and implement, it would also take away from other key projects. When it comes down to it, we need to prioritize in the development process; sadly right now there are other things that have a higher priority.


What's these key projects you're talking about?

Skirmish arenas? Finally? No...? :(
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Community
16/11/2012 15:51Posted by Recycle
A spectator mode is something that we think would be a really cool feature and we would like to implement one. The main problem is that it's a huge feature and simply a matter of being able to getting around to creating it. So hopefully at some point in the future we may do this, but right now we do not have any plans to create a spectator mode.
Erm, you already have a Spectator Client?

Or is the one that we've been seeing im MLG and BlizzCon just not really been there? Your wording hints that one doesn't exist.

I'm believing what you're trying to say is that you're just not ready to give it to us. You have tools, but those tools require access levels to be used. Teleports, target's vision etc. and to see current arena matches being played.

Question is, why not?
Actually, those are special accounts created only for use at these events specifically so that the casters can perform their roles optimally and provide the best viewing experience for everyone. It's not something that we can simply add into the game client and is not really an actual spectator mode, simply a workaround to allow for spectating that is little more than a mobile camera in the game.

Spectator mode would need to be fully built from the ground up in order to give regular player accounts spectating abilities. :(
Edited by Nakatoir on 16/11/2012 16:06 GMT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11450
So it boils down to the very core of the games code which is over a decade old now?

Ugh.... nvm then :(.
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90 Tauren Paladin
8535
16/11/2012 15:27Posted by Nakatoir
Do remember as well that the technology for spectating, the mechanics that allow you to access it and all the surrounding parts to creating this type of system would need to be designed as well as being made for use in mass. This would take a great deal of time to create and implement, it would also take away from other key projects. When it comes down to it, we need to prioritize in the development process; sadly right now there are other things that have a higher priority.

The answer has been the same since WotlK, you've never seemed to have time. Two expansion packs have been released since WotlK and the answer is still the same. I would've thought that the time for new things and testing out new technology was a perfect thing to do in the Beta stage of an expansion, but looks like I've been wrong. So if beta is ruled out, there really isn't any other time you could create and try out this 'new spectator technology'.

Don't forget though, this is something that is on our radar and we never said it was a system we will not implement. To quote Tom Chilton on the subject; "It's just a question of being able to get around to doing it, so someday...Hopefully."

It doesn't matter if we forget it or not. It's not going to happen, because the developers have had a long time to develop this and they have obviously not listened to Tom Chilton because nothing has been done.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
10670
[quote]but right now we do not have any plans to create a spectator mode.

You also have to remember that while there are players that want a spectator client, the number that would actually use it regularly or even continue to use after its initial release is quite low. .

Why do I always see this excuse constantly used whenever a suggestion for a new feature involving arena or RBGs is brought up? Fix your act seriously... There are god damned private servers doing more than you except the difference is you are sucking up the customers money and giving them a terrible product... I am still to this day unclear on how you allowed so many faults in classes to be allowed to enter the retail patch
Edited by Spardz on 16/11/2012 16:48 GMT
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90 Goblin Shaman
10635
the number that would actually use it regularly or even continue to use after its initial release is quite low


That's just not true.

The whole pvp community would use it for as long as this game lasts.


Now, I would love to see a spectator mode, and I do hope that we will see one - sooner rather than later - however, realistically, what Nakatoir is writing here is absolutely true.

Why is it we are so hungry after a spectator mode in PvP?
Because we want to see WoW as an e-Sport, and have a community outside of just battle.net.
We want to be able to host tournaments and have leaderboards to be topped, and titles to be won, just like we have in the StarCraft community.
- Now, how many SC2 players actually use the spectator (observer) mode for custom games? A very small part of the playerbase, I tell you. Even fewer - vastly fewer, in fact - participate in tournaments, which are the main "conusmers" of the observer option.
The spectator mode actually impacts the "outside world" much more than it does the "inside world", as we watch all of these tournaments on streams, not in the game itself.

So, back to your statement. Yes, the "whole" PvP community would use it for as long as the game lasts (whole might be a strong word, here, however).
But the thing is, that they wouldn't be using it actively in-game, if you get my drift..!?
The in-game feature, "spectator mode", would only be used by a tiny fraction of (even the more hardcore than casual) playerbase.
The rest of the WoW PvP Enthusiasts (whether they play themselves or not), will be enjoying this feature passively through streams and VoDs.
Edited by Titoista on 16/11/2012 16:52 GMT
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90 Night Elf Rogue
11060

Erm, you already have a Spectator Client?

Or is the one that we've been seeing im MLG and BlizzCon just not really been there? Your wording hints that one doesn't exist.

I'm believing what you're trying to say is that you're just not ready to give it to us. You have tools, but those tools require access levels to be used. Teleports, target's vision etc. and to see current arena matches being played.

Question is, why not?
Actually, those are special accounts created only for use at these events specifically so that the casters can perform their roles optimally and provide the best viewing experience for everyone. It's not something that we can simply add into the game client and is not really an actual spectator mode, simply a workaround to allow for spectating that is little more than a mobile camera in the game.

Spectator mode would need to be fully built from the ground up in order to give regular player accounts spectating abilities. :(
But this still means the spectator client exists. The frames, the scoreboard, everything exists already. I'd like to ask a few questions about it from you if just possible. Reply tot he ones that you can answer, and tell me what you can't answer.

1. Is the client separate from the client we use to connect?

2. The basic structure could easily be implemented with the resources you have. Is the code simply just outdated?

3. The fact that you mention "special" accounts brings me just 1 simple reasoning, which enables commands that aren't available to players but are to, say, Game Masters. Wouldn't it be possible for you to have a new interface(such as void strage, bla bla, or something similar to auction house) to list all matches. Upon entering the match, you'll receive the custom unitframes and access to be able to change PoV(like Mind Vision) by targeting someone temporarily? I know it's not just a workaround when there's like.. camera coming from the sky to preview the map briefly.. :p

4. Even if the Spectator Client is a separate client from the ones we players have access to, surely it has to use same code or very similar code as what the WoW client is because it has to communicate with the world server and communicate with the players' actions such as trinkets(which I assume are being pulled off from the combat log) and the like, the models, the fact you can see them move.

5. Off-topic slightly, but because the fact that players have access to make War Games and host player-made tournaments, the only problem we "really" have is that we have no PoV following. There are tools out in the internet (third party, unfortunately) that allow us to do this. Why not implement something that when you're dead, whoever your target is will be followed like in the official tournaments? Just a suggestion, but that would make player-hosted tournaments at least a lot more enjoyable to watch.

16/11/2012 16:05Posted by Nakatoir
Spectator mode would need to be fully built from the ground up in order to give regular player accounts spectating abilities. :(
I'll tell you what. When you die in arena and release, it says "You are now in spectator mode." so don't try to fool me here, Nakatoir! ;)

There are so many things I'd like to know, but not the place for forums. Wink wink, nudge nudge.

;)
Edited by Recycle on 16/11/2012 17:18 GMT
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90 Night Elf Druid
15840
A spectator mode would have been a much, much better way of having people watch you in the Brawler's Guild than making people wait in line in the real world just so that everyone can watch. Even if PvP in itself is not a reason to implement a spectator mode, the BG would have been a great excuse to build it now... Instead you force an invitation system on people that means only the very rich will get in to start with.
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90 Undead Mage
10150
When you release something like a preview of this.. I will go like... "Gief that beta invite"! ;)
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87 Night Elf Druid
4715
16/11/2012 15:27Posted by Nakatoir
"It's just a question of being able to get around to doing it, so someday...Hopefully."


Oh, so the same approach that applies to balancing PvP in general!
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
10670
16/11/2012 17:20Posted by Kerberusx
"It's just a question of being able to get around to doing it, so someday...Hopefully."


Oh, so the same approach that applies to balancing PvP in general!
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90 Goblin Shaman
8195
16/11/2012 17:23Posted by Spardz


Oh, so the same approach that applies to balancing PvP in general!

Btw you guys at blizzard might want to check out AT and learn, they've had a working spectator client for ages.
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11 Goblin Priest
16415
PVP is dead. Why would anyone watch something boring like WoW-Unbalanced-PVP that rarly happens thanks to it being able to be so easily exploited?

Id prefer Activision developers work on some more story and lore opposed to something as dead as wows pvp....
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