Let's get rid of the 10 minute stat debuff on ress

90 Blood Elf Paladin
11005
it’s because either your character died in a very weird place (and you should be more careful), or you just don’t want to corpse run.


What do you mean by "weird" and "more careful"? Dying in almost every slightly elevated place (to more than one quest/rare mob) in pandaria means you need to spirit res. Or have you just decided to randomly insult your players and their intelligence?
Edited by Bublik on 27/11/2012 07:12 GMT
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90 Human Warrior
14165
I am too stupid to stay on my flying mount.
I always die because I use some sort of stupid keybind like shadowstep that mounts me up for no reason. I can press all the other buttons just fine, only ss dismounting me.
That's why I rolled engi in the long run. Just to stay alive.


There is a setting under interface that prevents you from being dismounted in flight by casting spells.
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90 Goblin Hunter
7260
How about when you die you get a choice.

No rez sickness 2000 gold for PVE deaths no damage to gear

No rez sickness 800 gold for PVP deaths no damage to gear

No rez sickness but forced to run naked, no mounts allowed back to where you died to get your gear back from a spawned chest that only you can open and if you die on the way you get rez sickness
Edited by Grusum on 27/11/2012 08:36 GMT
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90 Orc Warrior
5650
Lol wow punishment for death is fine. I remember in Final Fantasy Online where you lose experience upon death, you can even level DOWN.
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30 Troll Druid
7365
[quote](actually, do people even still manage to die to mobs?)


Only if your raiding or you lag out.

The 10 min debuff on mass res is kind of a non issue though most of the time.

Theres not much point to having the debuff and theres not much point to not having it either way.

Mass ress=mainly a raid tool. Most encounters take about 5-10 mins before you wipe usally, plus maybe 1-2 mins prior prep time, ready check/food/etc. On most wipes I find mass res is ready every other wipe and when its not ready it takes and extra 5 mins on most bosses to run to it. Not a big deal either way but itd be a bit more convenient not to have the debuff
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30 Troll Druid
7365
it’s because either your character died in a very weird place (and you should be more careful), or you just don’t want to corpse run.


What do you mean by "weird" and "more careful"? Dying in almost every slightly elevated place (to more than one quest/rare mob) in pandaria means you need to spirit res. Or have you just decided to randomly insult your players and their intelligence?


He is right about this, the best place to farm wild foul breasts is inaccessible via the grave yard run for example. There are a lot of places in pandaria where there are mobs that are worth killing that you cant get to via the grave yard. I think ive only died to them twice in the entire game but its still a bit annoying having to res sickness and wait ten mins of afking before I can continue farming mats.
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1 Undead Rogue
0
26/11/2012 15:47Posted by Taepsilum
We’re always open to good and new ideas of what that might be; as long as it’s not “removal of the death penalty”, feel free to chip in ;)


I am totally fine with death penalties such as dura loss and corpse running. But the increasing resurrection timer does get in the way occasionally, not while doing PvE but in PvP.

Usually open world PvP (just running into someone of the other faction and having genuine fun cleaving or melting eachother's face) ends for me when me or the other guy is looking at a 2 minute resurrection timer. And it doesn't take long to get there, especially in Guru'bashi Arena or at the Darkmoon Fair. The timer serves no purpose in PvP gameplay, someone is bound to die quick and sooner then later cant resurrect anymore, ending the game.

Suggestion, remove timer penalty, replace it with a stacking player debuff to avoid exploiting:

PvP, if honorable kill farm on graveyard is a problem without timer penalty, given the dying player a stacking debuff when killed by enemy player. If it reaches 5 stacks or so they become a honorless kill target, drops off after 2 minutes but keep the default respawn timer after death 20-30 seconds or whatever it is now.

PvE, if death > run > resurrection gets exploited in PvE give a similar debuff. Die 5 times in quick succession by a PvE source, 2 minutes resurrection sickness or something like that. Keep 10 minutes for ressing at the Spirit Healer.
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90 Night Elf Druid
5085
look at all those terrible people ITT who demand the freedom of sucking so much that dying to mobs like absolute noobs in inaccessible areas shouldn't penalize them

jfc just don't die problem solved
if you can't avoid dying uninstall the game and get a subscription to hello kitty online instead tia


Oh wow, someone bright seems to be joining the discussion.

Eitherway, maybe it wasn't completely clear from my starting post. But the thing that really has to go is the 10 minutes ress sickness. It's old game design and imo something else should come in place...what, lets discuss about that! :D

"it's old" is not a useful argument. In fact it's not even an argument at all. Game design doesn't rot or otherwise degrade over time. If a particular design point being being "old" is ground for removal, then they should also remove: HP, weapons, every class, your character being subjected to gravity, etc.

You still haven't explained why res sickness is a problem. Situations where you can die in an unreachable places are seldom and dying on a pve realm (like the one you're playing on) is a rare occurrence, and those are the only situations where you need to take res sickness. In fact it's the only situation where the game dares inflict you a vaguely meaningful penalty for losing.

Losing, in whatever form, is supposed to have a cost. Saying res sickness is a problem is like saying that dying is a problem. After all, dying is bloody inconvenient, it makes you waste some precious grinding time! Plus it's old design. It should be replaced with something else.
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30 Troll Druid
7365

You still haven't explained why res sickness is a problem. Situations where you can die in an unreachable places are seldom and dying on a pve realm (like the one you're playing on) is a rare occurrence, and those are the only situations where you need to take res sickness. In fact it's the only situation where the game dares inflict you a vaguely meaningful penalty for losing.



Its was rare its become more common with the lay out of pandaria. There are a lot of places where mobs are that are unreachable via grave yard runs. Ive been lucky enough to only die in them twice, again lag etc :D, most likely wouldn't die normally but theres always the chance im going to have to wait 10 mins of not playing a game I want to play in order to go there.

A simple solution would be if we could fly in pandaria as ghosts, like we can in other areas of the game. It is a very minor issue though but there is always room for improvement to avoid these situations.
-----------
Out of curiosity that what is the justification for the res sickness buff? Why do we get penalized for resing at the graveyard as opposed to resing next to our corpse? Im most circumstances resing at the grave yard, even ignoring the res sickness is much more inconvient that resing at corpse because then we have to run back to the questing location, through mobs etc etc and that will take much longer than the corpse run as a ghost. Resing at the gy would be an inconvenience compared to corpse running even if we didnt have res sickness.
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90 Night Elf Warrior
7785
27/11/2012 11:07Posted by Zulshi
Out of curiosity that what is the justification for the res sickness buff? Why do we get penalized for resing at the graveyard as opposed to resing next to our corpse? Im most circumstances resing at the grave yard, even ignoring the res sickness is much more inconvient that resing at corpse because then we have to run back to the questing location, through mobs etc etc and that will take much longer than the corpse run as a ghost. Resing at the gy would be an inconvenience compared to corpse running even if we didnt have res sickness.


No, rez at a graveyard without penalty is under no circumstance a penalty over the corpse run as you claim. Even if you have to go back were you dyed anyway, it would be faster with mount or flying mount. So yea you have to rethink your claim there.
To combensate for the convenience for rezzing on the spot asap you get the sickness. And the 10 minutes is always longer than the corpse run to make you chose the later. Obviously in pvp realms you will suffer from being ganked over and over by corpse running to the spot you dyed if you dyed from world pvp. Thus you can opt to get the spirit healer, and spare yourself the trouble with the debuff being the cost for the benefit you get.
In general the death penalty is to discourage players from being reckless.
It has a very specific purpose and it should stay.
There is no excuse around this, as there is no excuse for people to suggest the old system for reputation grinds through dungeons, since clearly they re doing those dungeons both for direct gear benefits (through bosses), or indirect ones (from items related to valor points gained).
Thus although i understand the frustration for rep grinding through daylies, the solution offered is purely motivated from the sheer lazyness of a player to actually play the game.
The same goes with Rez sickness. People are basically bored to corpse run, and want to work around it by asking unreasonable things.
The point that this game, outside raids have become boringly easy, should be more than enough for the people that still, manage to die in the open world. And if you PvP, you knew what you were chosing and now you simply have to live with it (appart from the CRZ issues that recently occured and need adressing ofc).
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90 Human Warrior
10890
26/11/2012 15:47Posted by Taepsilum
If you decide to resurrect at the spirit healer, it’s because either your character died in a very weird place (and you should be more careful), or you just don’t want to corpse run.


In that case. I think the rare mob Major Nanners is in a very "weird" place.

No offence, but if you're gonna make a mob that hits hard... atleast make it possible to run back!
Edited by Evïra on 27/11/2012 11:52 GMT
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90 Human Rogue
6590
26/11/2012 15:47Posted by Taepsilum
The death of a character should be something important, the death penalty is there to make sure players don’t disregard it, in my opinion it’s actually already too easy and too fast to resurrect.


Since CRZ come out its too easy to die. I leveled a caracter in the past few weeks and i wasnt able to make a group to kill an elite or make a group do the arena quests in nagrand, zul drak or even in twilight highlands but i was farmed down by a level 90 horde player countles times. And i had to ress myself a few times at the spirit healer as i wasnt able to run back to my corpse.While questing its nearly impossible to die as the NPC-s are stupid and weak. Yeah you can die but my experience is that 99% of my deaths while questing comes from a horde player who is higher leveled than me. I dont see why i should be punished for this...And they dont kill you only once. They kill you 4-5 times or even more. You have to log otherwise they will just farm you all day. Yeasterday there was a dk who only damaged me when i pulled a mob. As long as players who farm low level players wont get any restrictions it will continue and with this resurrecting thing you only punish those who try to level their caracter.
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90 Night Elf Druid
5085
27/11/2012 11:07Posted by Zulshi
There are a lot of places where mobs are that are unreachable via grave yard runs. Ive been lucky enough to only die in them twice, again lag etc :D

Ah yeah "lag", the universal excuse for absolutely everything.

Out of curiosity that what is the justification for the res sickness buff? Why do we get penalized for resing at the graveyard as opposed to resing next to our corpse?

Otherwise people would suicide all the time as a way to fast travel to the nearest gy.
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90 Worgen Death Knight
9410
Please, no increased ghost movement speed! Example: You're killing Galleon on PvE player, opposite faction turns on PvP and runs into the mass, they getting that PvP if they AoE them and die, quickly getting back to the place... It would be really silly. [Still, in death flying mount would be needed in Kun-Lai Summit, because of huge hills.]
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90 Human Warrior
7405
Posted by Taepsilum
no experience loss as death penalty

Woah that would be cool.


I remember them having this system in the early betas.
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90 Pandaren Monk
8530
If the ress sickness is the problem...why not use it as a 10 min break, get food, get drinks, go to toilet...and there 10 min further and sickness is gone.
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90 Troll Mage
9960
Only thing I agree with is being able to fly to spots you can't reach. There should be a death penalty, it just shouldn't FORCE you into taking the debuff because where you died is unreachable.

Increase repair costs or something but allow people to reach their corpse.
Edited by Dutchmagoz on 27/11/2012 14:41 GMT
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90 Human Paladin
11560
8 years... 8 YEARS! and no one ever had a problem with that...

What is wrong with you people? Are u too lazy to run to a corpse???... too lazy to prevent yourself from dying???

Keep it like it is and pls stop changing everything for people which seem to be too *** to handle things...

HEAD --> WALL
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90 Gnome Rogue
10990
Have you not heard the subliminal messages from the spirit ress! It's needed to brainwash us lol.

But seriously there should be a penalty for dying. How easy do you guys need this game?
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90 Night Elf Hunter
13060
I can see res sickness having a purpose on a PVP server. There someone might try to use the spirit healer to escape a PVP situation and I can see that some tangible penalty makes sense.

On a PVE server it's just daft. Typical situations for res sickness are bugs or accidents where you end up with an unreachable corpse. I wish I could see my statistics, but subjectively the vast majority of my rare spirit healer uses are indeed from stupid accidents that lead to an unreachable corpse. In combat with others one doesn't tend to be in unreachable locations. The repair cost (could be increased too) is just fine a penalty for that.

In PVE the res sickness "punishment" has literally nothing to do with gameplay or some useful mechanism, but rather has an infantilizing feel to it like "sit in the corner for 10 minutes and think hard how you should not have ended up with an unreachable corpse (even though you may not have known before it happened)".

I'd say turn res sickness into a penalty vs players only (e.g. quadruple damage from players and decrease healing taken to 25%). That way it doesn't interfer with the PVE playing experience as much yet still serves the purpose that a PVP escape through the spirit healer comes at a cost.

Or just get rid of res sickness. I think at least on a PVE server it's just improve the experience, without a downside.
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