Resilience and duration of Crowd Control mechanics

90 Tauren Druid
12450
Hello community!

I was thinking about what a lot of people complain recently and that is the duration of Crowd Control in pvp. Then an interesting idea came to my mind. Why not make Resilience reduce the time a player spends CC'd?

For example: You have 50% resilience rating and get hit by an 8-second fear. That would mean that the duration of fear is cut in half, resulting in 4 seconds of fear.

Some would say that this way CC would be almost useless, since resilience will reach over 70% in the future. Then I can propose that pvp power also increases the time of CC by the same amount, until the cap of 8 seconds.

This way a if a player with 60% resilience gets feared by a player with 35% pvp power, he will receive a 60-35= 25% reduced fear, that is 6 seconds.

What do you think of this idea?
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90 Undead Monk
8475
I like it. It has been suggested in the past. Blizzard chose to ignore it back then as well.
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90 Human Warrior
7000
they really need to do something about CC but I'm not sure this is it

because

23/11/2012 09:13Posted by Izelor
Some would say that this way CC would be almost useless, since resilience will reach over 70% in the future.


they will probably only change a few cc's but to properly do something about them they would have to scrap half of them and start over
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I think it will become impossible, or, at least, much much harder for undergeared players' arena teams to actually land a kill on enemy, because not only they will deal reduced damage, but also they will have weaker CC chains compared to the better geared enemy team.
It doesn't look good for me.
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90 Pandaren Priest
9345
No.
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90 Human Paladin
0
I think it will become impossible, or, at least, much much harder for undergeared players' arena teams to actually land a kill on enemy, because not only they will deal reduced damage, but also they will have weaker CC chains compared to the better geared enemy team.
It doesn't look good for me.


Reduce the duration overall. No need for resi or anything. Let the player have a better control of what he is playing. It is never was a good game design to lose the control for like 80%.
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90 Tauren Druid
12450
Concerning the "undergeared" factor, do you honestly believe that it will make that much of a difference if you get 8 instead of 6 seconds of fear, poly, etc, when you are dealing crappy damage and are hit by trucks of 150k +? Undergeared teams have minimal chances of succeeding anyway, so this is more of a matchmaking issue.

Why not implement an ilvl check when you enter the arena or rbg? Besides, since the game allows players to improve their gear, advanced players should at least have the privilege of an easier kill on those who are just starting. It's not unfair, it's how the game works right now.

Actually this whole concept of less gear goes out of the window after the end of the first season, since when season 2 begins everyone will have access to the epics of the previous season. There goes the difference in gear.
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90 Human Warrior
9795
I would never trinket anything .p
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Community
That is quite an interesting concept, but it appears to take something that is and should be quite simple, then makes it incredibly complex. It would be quite difficult to know how long you will be CC'd or CC'ing for in a match because it would vary from player to player.

There would be other issues with such a system too, what if a player had more PvP power than the other person had Resilience? Say a Human Warrior (purely theoretical) that stacks PvP power and is using Titan's Grip, they can get approximately 53% PvP power and they face someone just getting into PvP having only 40% resilience. They will be stunned by any of the Warriors CC for 13% longer :(

You could change the "8 second cap" to be "capped at skills base PvP duration", but other issues could possibly arise too. Maybe there would be technical limitations on such a system or Resilience may out scale PvP power making CC almost useless and vice versa.

We have said previously that we are content with the current state of crowd control, but it is really cool to see more on how you would all like to see CC function in PvP. Just because we are okay with how CC works right now doesn't mean we are not open to feedback from the community on the subject, so feel free to add your thoughts in this topic. :)
Edited by Nakatoir on 23/11/2012 15:58 GMT
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90 Pandaren Monk
9275
23/11/2012 12:41Posted by Nakatoir
We have said previously that we are content with the current state of crowd control,


Yeah, prepare to get flamed. The current state of crowd control is making people quit left and right. It's really sucked the fun right out of this game.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
7885
Remove diminishing returns and introduce SWTOR's resolv system; every time you get CC'ed your resolve bar fills up x% depending on how anoying the CC is for you class/spec.

IE; root a mage - tiny increase in resolve, root a mele with no ranged - huge increase in resolve.

Once you hit 100% you go immune to all forms of CC for 8 seconds.

All classes would in addition get a spell 'unhindered wrath' (off GCD) that will consume up to 20% resolve and increase you the damage/heal of you next ability by equal ammount ( consumed once the ability is actually used )

every 1 seconds not CC'ed your resolve declines by X%

CC'ing somebody now becomes more of choice of when to CC, rather than just turn of you brain and CC till diminishing returns occurs and then switch to a different CC.

The person being CC'ed also has to make a tough choice - wait for the immunity or get off a bigger heal/damage.
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Community
23/11/2012 12:44Posted by Pathos
We have said previously that we are content with the current state of crowd control,


Yeah, prepare to get flamed. The current state of crowd control is making people quit left and right. It's really sucked the fun right out of this game.
I will say something that was said last time we mentioned that we are content with the current state of CC to try and prevent this. It is something I already touched on in the last post.

23/11/2012 12:41Posted by Nakatoir
Just because we are okay with how CC works right now doesn't mean we are not open to feedback from the community on the subject, so feel free to add your thoughts in this topic. :)
So we are not against making changes to how CC works in PvP right now, we are simply content with how it works at the moment. We fully understand that there are some players that are frustrated by CC right now and if you have thoughts or feedback on the topic, feel free to discuss it here.
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81 Orc Hunter
1195
23/11/2012 12:54Posted by Nakatoir


Yeah, prepare to get flamed. The current state of crowd control is making people quit left and right. It's really sucked the fun right out of this game.
I will say something that was said last time we mentioned that we are content with the current state of CC to try and prevent this. It is something I already touched on in the last post.

23/11/2012 12:41Posted by Nakatoir
Just because we are okay with how CC works right now doesn't mean we are not open to feedback from the community on the subject, so feel free to add your thoughts in this topic. :)
So we are not against making changes to how CC works in PvP right now, we are simply content with how it works at the moment. We fully understand that there are some players that are frustrated by CC right now and if you have thoughts or feedback on the topic, feel free to discuss it here.


How can you be okay with stuff like bloodfear, or psyfiend negating trinket/dispel? CC is out of control.

Read this.

http://windlashed.wordpress.com/2012/11/12/crowd-control-in-pvp/

Best read you'll ever have.
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No the resolve system in swtor sucked, but worked for some part in swtor. I don't like the idea of making cc any shorter then it already is. Maybe change some of the shared diminishing returns for some of the cc, but nothing else.
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81 Orc Hunter
1195
This is taken from the Blog I just linked.

There are some very good examples here of crowd control done right, though, and I’ll go over them.

Polymorph – had a 1.5 second cast time (1.7 now, but there were no haste effects back then) and heals the target. A cast time allows you to defend against it with an interrupt or line of sight. The fact that it heals the player affected also gives it a cost for using it. It was a little ahead of its time, having no cooldown, but certainly doesn’t feel overpowered in today’s game.

Gouge – has a very high energy cost at 45, and breaks on damage. Its cost made it an interesting decision to use. Rogue players will obviously disagree, but I am of the belief that crowd control effects should nearly always have a significant and immediate cost attached to them. The fact that you don’t want to Gouge unless you have to is why it’s such a well designed ability, and crowd control should follow this model much more often.

Some examples of how I might change existing abilities (please keep in mind this is not a “nerf Paladins” or “nerf Death Knights” post, and similar changes would need to be made for all classes):
-Blinding Light – Also costs 3 Holy Power/given a cast time
-Strangulate – Costs 2 runes based on spec – Frost or Death for Frost, Blood or Death for Blood, Unholy or Death for Unholy.
-Predatory Strikes – Now causes 5 combo points to reduce the cast time of affected spells by 100%. Casting a spell consumes the combo points, and puts you out in caster form.

I recommend you read it Nakatoir, please do. It's the best blog I've ever read, it's a casuals PoV on CC in PvP.
Edited by Tublat on 23/11/2012 13:08 GMT
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90 Pandaren Monk
9275
[quote="59662604278"] We fully understand that there are some players that are frustrated by CC right now and if you have thoughts or feedback on the topic, feel free to discuss it here.


"Some players", yeah. There's 50 threads about how borked CC is atm on this forum every day, and people on Arena Junkies (read: top range PvP players) are saying how they're unsubbing due to CC constantly. I think you're confusing the definition of the word "some" with the word "most".

No PR-type response without essence will change that. I made a two-post thread of my own on how the Fear type of CC should be changed in particular, but as long as you guys keep saying that you're "content" with things like Blood Fear, Psyfiend, Ring of Frost etc in this game, people will always think you don't give a rat's !@#.
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14 Human Warrior
6040
I think the problem is instant CCs from specific classes. Just give them all a small cast time and its fine.

- No more feral instant cyclones.
- No more pom ring/sheep
- No more bloodfear.

Watching Veev last night i saw how he complained about the CCs aswell vs Venruki playing a godcomp. They still won really easily despite the fact that he got spamsheeped.

Without the CCs they would literally steamroll that multirank 1 wizzcleave team with so much ease. I dont think we want it like that either.

So nerfing CCs in general wouldnt be smart. It would lead to even more of a just rush the healer and pop all cds to global before our healer gets globalled.
Edited by Gödmodex on 23/11/2012 13:15 GMT
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19 Undead Rogue
0
Hello community!

I was thinking about what a lot of people complain recently and that is the duration of Crowd Control in pvp. Then an interesting idea came to my mind. Why not make Resilience reduce the time a player spends CC'd?

Sounds nice.
Sounds like a death for Shadow Priests who have only 1 reliable control - silence. I can't account fear as warriors and shamans effectively ignore it. PF getting a huge nerf and with 35k may be killed before even first cast (2s in 5.1)

So this change while sounds very interesting will require a deep rework of shadow priest and maybe other classes.
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90 Human Hunter
10170
The math here is wrong. If you have 35% PvP power and CC a player at 60% resi in this system you would let's say fear them for 8*1,35*0,4=4,32 seconds, not 6 seconds. Meaning anyone who doesn't stack PvP power (say a druid healer with 30%) will have terrible CC.

Take a druid at 35% vs 60% resi. 6*1,35*0,4=3,24. That's just over 3 seconds on the first non-DR cyclone which has a 1.5 second cast time.
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81 Orc Hunter
1195
I also believe the crit reduction part of resilience needs to be brought back.

The 40% base resilience feels like it doesn't help for !@#$. I'm at 60% resilience and getting holyshocked for 60k, 116k frostbombs etc..

inb4 "it would hurt specs relying on crit" It hurts everyone how it is atm, the cd stacking/burst is too high and sometimes it feels like resilience doesn't really help. And I did fine as a fire mage in wotlk, I managed fine.
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