Why we need to see LFR boss status

90 Draenei Shaman
8975
Hello all,

I've taken this from the US forums http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7200302669#1

Now they have removed the number of bosses defeated when your LFR queue pops this can cause all sorts of nonsence.

The way I did it before, queue up get an in progress raid say 2/3 booses killed go in for the 3rd one, kill the boss and re queue, do 1 & 2 out of 3 leave and queue for next group of bosses.

I don't care if I get a fresh run first time, I'll go back in, now though I am going to have to wait 30 mins before i can queue for the next one as I'll have a deserter debuff. 5 LFR's now mean I'll need to add roughly 2 and a half hours onto some thing that barley took 2 hours originally.

I also don't care if you don't show me how many bosses are down as I can leave if i have already killed that boss and allow someone to take my spot who hasn't. But now I'll get a deserter debuff.

Maybe if they properly explained to people you do not need to always do a fresh run to get the full rewards for LFR, you can kill the bosses in any order and still get the full chance on loot and vp.

The CM's on the US forum are telling me I should complete the LFR for VP anyway, even if I have killed that boss, but why, if I do one heroic a day and 5 LFR's that VP caps me (unless the cap has risen which I have not seen anything on) so why would i want more vp from a boss I've already killed even if that is possible which I don't think you get extra VP for killing a boss twice in one LFR lock out.

I'm a healer,I go in to Queue, gets a 2/3 bosses down run on MGV, then queues for my 1st boss, kill it and then leaves gets deserter debuff and cannot queue for any LFR for 30 mins.

what if there is anothe raid in HOF waiting on 1 healer on the third boss, I cannot join them to kill that boss becuase I have a debuff.

I am going to need to go in and 2/3 kill that boss, re-queue and do the entire LFR so that I am not punished, why am I being punished becuase I took the hit and joined a 2/3 group?

I don't care too much about LFR gear (I know I am wearing some what is the alternative, haven't had a single drop from normals), I care more about the VP for proper gear, but if someone goes in there for one specific item and get it they are going to leave and not care about the debuff and it means people like me who do it for VP are going to have to kill the same boss twice in order not to get punished.

I have yet to think of a plus side for this change, maybe it will mean people stay in a raid even if they already killed a boss in order not to get a debuff. But that is not the answer, if I have to kill a boss I've already killed I won't put in as much effort because the only reason I am there is so not to get a debuff. Ths will ruin my experience and those stuck with me healing with one eye on the TV.

Before anyone points out I can get VP other ways, I raid 4 times a week and I work full time so this is the most efficent and enjoyable way for me to earn vp.

alternatives

No debuff if you have killed all bosses in that LFR.
No debuff if your raid has taken over a certain time, i.e the 30 minute debuff starts when you enter, so you have to stay in there for at least 30 minutes.
You get a 30 minute debuff upon quiting, reduced by the number of bosses you've killed with the final boss of the instance removing it.
You can queue up for a different LFR (MGV has it's on debuff, HOF has it's own debuff)
Loremaster Cho can remove the bebuff for 10 Lesser Charms or for 100 gold.
have the number of wipe's tarcked so if it is 3/5 on a single boss or 10 altogether you won't get the debuff upon quiting (sometimes groups don't work no matter how hard we try).

I am not for this change but at least I've put forward other ideas. Peace out.

Let the flames commence!
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90 Human Priest
9230
No flames from me, if they are insistant on not bringing the raid status back they should at least allow us the option of only queuing for a fresh run.
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46 Dwarf Hunter
10995
I always complete the run, why not take that suggestion? You do get VP for it, and its faster than a heroic. If you are doing all LFRs, then you got 470 ilvl anyway and need nothing from heroics, right?

The thread title about boss status is very misleading: At first, I thought what you are really saying is that you like hanging about in the queue till a fresh run comes up. That sort of thing hurts everybody because the queue gets a lot slower because incomplete runs dont get out of the queue, but rather accumulate in number so in the end no fresh runs are being made, and lots of players are queueing up without ever accepting. The whole queue could bog completely down this way.

It is much better now. The raids are replenished much faster than they used to so fresh runs come about more often and faster than they used to, and we all should be all smiles because Blizzard probably have som good technicians who understand their queue theory, operations research, and system equilibrium/steady state. Good for them, good for you, just smile and be happy there are people out there who know their stuff.

And just stay in the raid till it completes. Do your bit to make the system work smoothly.
Edited by Thalbard on 30/11/2012 00:22 GMT
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20 Tauren Warrior
8905
They want you not to decide if you join a running lfr.

Thats all.
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46 Dwarf Hunter
10995
They want you not to decide if you join a running lfr.

Thats all.


Exactly. And that happens to be better for all of us.

If you* do not understand that, there are courses out there in stochastic processes, queue theory, operations research, economics, etc that can help you understand it.

If you don't want to go to the bother of understanding something that complex, just be glad that Blizzard apparently do understand it and have improved the system for us, even if you do not understand that's what's been done.

*Talking to anyone, and no one in particular here ;)
Edited by Thalbard on 30/11/2012 00:25 GMT
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90 Worgen Druid
5045
30/11/2012 00:19Posted by Thalbard
If you are doing all LFRs, then you got 470 ilvl anyway and need nothing from heroics, right?


That doesnt have to be true. My ilv is 476 and one of my trinkets is 458 ilv still.

I still believe it's stupid not to show how many bosses are killed though. This game goes further and further away from people doing stuff because they want to, towards doing things in order to not get punished in one way or another. I'm not going to stay and kill bosses I don't need no matter how much of a punishment they give me for leaving though.
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46 Dwarf Hunter
10995
30/11/2012 00:41Posted by Ravinne
I still believe it's stupid not to show how many bosses are killed though. This game goes further and further away from people doing stuff because they want to, towards doing things in order to not get punished in one way or another. I'm not going to stay and kill bosses I don't need no matter how much of a punishment they give me for leaving though.


This is a case of you not understanding your own best interests. If you're not an expert on the stuff I mentioned before, you should have more respect for those that are. Blizzard are right about this one.

So a check list:

1) Would you like to wait a longer or shorter time for the LFR queue to pop?
- this change makes the wait shorter

2) Would you like to be able to get in new players when your group loses players, or do you prefer to wait for them for a long time or start over from the beginning?
-this change gets you new players in fast so you can finish

3) Do you want to get fresh runs pop more often, or do you like to always get incompete runs that take forever to get going again?
- this change gives you more fresh runs

And finally,

4) When discussing changes to the game, do you want to compare real alternatives, or do you like to waste time arguing about things that can never happen?
- if you like to waste time thinking about things that are impossible, keep up complaining. If you like the game to be designed in a way that actually works, appreciate the fact that in this particular instance, Blizzard has gotten the design exactly right.
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It's perfectly justified and works so that everyone is happy in the end. You join at the last boss, kill it, requeue and preferentially get put in a group so that you get to kill what you haven't. Only major difference is that you have to queue twice instead of once, which is a minor inconvinience (for me anyway).

I like it.
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90 Worgen Druid
5045
4) When discussing changes to the game, do you want to compare real alternatives, or do you like to waste time arguing about things that can never happen?
- if you like to waste time thinking about things that are impossible, keep up complaining. If you like the game to be designed in a way that actually works, appreciate the fact that in this particular instance, Blizzard has gotten the design exactly right.

Are you high? Where did I compare the game with anything in real life? And beeing condescending doesn't get you anywhere.

Talking about blizzard does what is best for me because I'm too stupid for my own good seems more as comparing the game with real life. For example governments prohibiting one thing or another because "it's whats best for you".

Latley blizzard have been doing everything they can to make us play the game we pay for in a way that they think is good. Not giving us much of a choice to play it in a way that we like ourselves. CRZ, gating content behind reputation and BMAH is just a few of those things. These are things that blizzard do because they think it's best, no matter how the players that pay for the game feels about it. All at the same time when they tell us how much more choices we will have. That everyone will be able to play this game in a way that fits the player the best.

One example, removing head enchants because they don't want people to feel forced to grind a certain reputation. Then gating pretty much all content in game behind golden lotus reputation.

While comparing with real life, communism have already been tested and failed many times in the past. So what makes you think it will be any better when blizzard tells you how to play your game because thats whats best for you? Tell you how to have fun? Tell you CRZ is there for your benefit so you can meet new friends and team up cross server for doing soloble quests? And tell you that even though you have killed the last 2 bosses in a RF, you will eventually end up in a group that just killed the first boss. Leaving you with the option to either stay for 2 bosses that gives you nothing at all, or take a 30 minute deserter buff and then hope that maybe the next raid hasn't killed the first boss yet.

How about giving me options to play the game the way I want?
Edited by Ravinne on 30/11/2012 04:54 GMT
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46 Dwarf Hunter
10995
Are you high? Where did I compare the game with anything in real life? And beeing condescending doesn't get you anywhere.

Talking about blizzard does what is best for me because I'm too stupid for my own good seems more as comparing the game with real life. For example governments prohibiting one thing or another because "it's whats best for you".

How about giving me options to play the game the way I want?


The real alternatives I referred to are things that actually might work in the game. You want things that don't work. You don't understand they don't work and you aren't listening to people who do understand. But yeah, Blizzard should design the game so it's best for you nonetheless.
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90 Troll Warlock
0
I think it's an incredibly lame move.

Getting a queue pop for the last boss only, then queing again for the first 2, only to get the !@#$%^- last boss again.

Leave?
Here's a *!@#ing 30 min debuff.
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90 Draenei Shaman
8975
I always complete the run, why not take that suggestion? You do get VP for it, and its faster than a heroic. If you are doing all LFRs, then you got 470 ilvl anyway and need nothing from heroics, right?

The thread title about boss status is very misleading: At first, I thought what you are really saying is that you like hanging about in the queue till a fresh run comes up. That sort of thing hurts everybody because the queue gets a lot slower because incomplete runs dont get out of the queue, but rather accumulate in number so in the end no fresh runs are being made, and lots of players are queueing up without ever accepting. The whole queue could bog completely down this way.

It is much better now. The raids are replenished much faster than they used to so fresh runs come about more often and faster than they used to, and we all should be all smiles because Blizzard probably have som good technicians who understand their queue theory, operations research, and system equilibrium/steady state. Good for them, good for you, just smile and be happy there are people out there who know their stuff.

And just stay in the raid till it completes. Do your bit to make the system work smoothly.


I was going to reply to you but your clearly a troll, I’ll tell you why you said “The thread title about boss status is very misleading: At first, I thought what you are really saying is that you like hanging about in the queue till a fresh run comes up”

If you read the my post you would not have thought this, so go fish somewhere else, thanks.
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Not really sure about this as I haven't done LFR for a few weks.

But this change; unable to see status...
Does it mean you might end up keep getting 2/3 bosses LFRs?
Or will you be sure to get a fresh run if you already killed the last one?

I can understand they want people to stick it out with their initial LFR group. Joining and leaving midraid like it's been is annoying. But then there also need to be some sort of a system making sure you don't have to keep killing the same boss/bosses all the time with no option to check you get the one you haven't yet. Fair enough you can use the extra loot rolls even on the kills after the first, but those are limited still. Also that doesn't fix issues with not getting to bosses you haven't killed yet.
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90 Draenei Shaman
8975
Basically what happens is they do not tell you how many bosses are defeated. So if you get accepted into a LFR that is on the last boss and you want to kill first 2 boss' that you missed, you will need to kill the 3rd boss again otherwise you will get a deserter debuff and not be able to queue for LFR for 30 minutes.

I have no problems with joining half finished LFR's, becuase they will always try and put you in a fresh run afterwards, my problem is not only do I need to kill the bosses in the wrong order, I now need to kill the same ones twice to avoid a 30 min wait to queue again.

I understand why they want people to stick out LFR as well, but punishing me becuase I queued for LFR and got a 2 out 3 run and had to go back is not fair. I never left the first raid I should not get a debuff.

I have mentioned some alternatives above and here are another couple.

The debuff only applies to those who join a fresh run and leave without completing it
It should not apply those who had to kill the boss in order of 3rd boss, 1st boss, 2nd boss.

Those who have already killed boss 2 and 3 the queue back to kill boss 1 and decide to stay it out and finish boss 2 and 3 again should get extra rewards.

Rewards system could be each boss you've already killed drops a chest Each chest has a random reward froma Green/Blue item to SoH/Iron Paw cooking award to Trash Epic's, but this would only be available once per week and only on the bosses you've already killed the first time around.

But to give zero reward for staying in a group with absolutley no benefit to yourself is idiotic especially since you already took a hit first time and joined a 2/3 raid and to even punish those people is even worse.
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Thanks a lot for responding to my question.

And yeah. I get it now :-)

We could get a goodie bag for sticking the whole raid out, specially if you entered it with "unlootable" bosses. At least if you were alive and kicking at the kill of those bosses. Bag could contain some gold and a random amount of JP or gem/flask. Didn't have to be much. Just a gesture to those who make things better for others.
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90 Human Priest
14395
Im just bothered by the fact that I keep getting 0/3 queues while im saved to 2/3. I need the last one not the two others. Please put me in the correct group.
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29/11/2012 23:22Posted by Drdraenei
The CM's on the US forum are telling me I should complete the LFR for VP anyway, even if I have killed that boss, but why, if I do one heroic a day and 5 LFR's that VP caps me (unless the cap has risen which I have not seen anything on) so why would i want more vp from a boss I've already killed even if that is possible which I don't think you get extra VP for killing a boss twice in one LFR lock out.


You get extra VP for finishing the LFR run you've been placed in, no matter if you've killed the final boss of that run yet or not (you just get 90 VP for the first completion and 45 for all the others).

30/11/2012 08:57Posted by Trylb
Getting a queue pop for the last boss only, then queing again for the first 2, only to get the !@#$%^- last boss again.


If you get into an ongoing run and finish it, next time you queue, the system will try to put you on a fresh run. It's not 100% guaranteed, but that's what the game will try to do, rather than have you going against the same last boss again.

Does it mean you might end up keep getting 2/3 bosses LFRs?
Or will you be sure to get a fresh run if you already killed the last one?

It might not be 100% sure, but that's what the Raid Finder will try to do.

30/11/2012 15:05Posted by Drdraenei
But to give zero reward for staying in a group with absolutley no benefit to yourself is idiotic especially since you already took a hit first time and joined a 2/3 raid and to even punish those people is even worse.

If you finish that second run, you'll get Valor Points for it.
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I don't mind not getting a fresh run... I just don't like getting 2/3 every blood queue! I'm probably just having really bad luck but there's no fun, or benefit, to doing the same 2 bosses over and over 5 times because you can't get one that hasn't downed the first boss already yet.

No idea how that could be solved or that but it can get rather frustrating.
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90 Orc Death Knight
12900
30/11/2012 15:31Posted by Draztal
If you finish that second run, you'll get Valor Points for it.


Oh boy !! 45 valor points !!! if only i could do some kind of quest in half the time it takes for a queue to pop (roughly 30min after 5.1) and the time it takes to clear the bosses !!!

And by the way, what if i need the 1st boss and only get 2/3 1/3 que pops. happends alot

Edit: ive found a way to get a 7m queue time instead of 30. ask a guildie (Healer) to queue up with me for then she can leave after im in!!! :D
Edited by Qutec on 30/11/2012 16:34 GMT
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90 Undead Mage
14270
30/11/2012 15:31Posted by Draztal
If you finish that second run, you'll get Valor Points for it.


45 valor points can hardly be called a reward for killing raid bosses you do not need.

It is just stupid imo that you downgrade the game by not showing how many of the bosses have died. I dont care that LFR tool will try to get me into a fresh run the next time i que, because that hardly ever happens that you que for a second time in a row.

It used to be so that when you are in a LFR that really sucks, it will just fall appart. Or you have to wait a bit longer for it to continu as people could chose to join or not.
And as for sticking it out just for the valor points, thnx but no thnx, its annoying enough that the loot tool doesnt look at what gear you already have. If you run somthing for a second time you get to see what you would have won. So if an item drops you really need its just another thing to get pissed off about.

It was perfect the way it was, why oh why mess with somthing that works? I'd rather have you guys look at the new portal seeds, you've upgraded all other plants so you could see well if the seed was growing or if there was somthing wrong with it. The new seeds are just as bad now as the runty mote seeds where.
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