Dark apotheosis, new arena spec?

90 Undead Warlock
6670
Hey guys

Just wanted to hear your thoughts about Glyph of Demon Hunting in arenas now that chaos wave has been nerfed. It does quite a lot of damage, has great mobility and amazing survivability.

Burst as tankdemo comes mostly from the imps and your wrathguard (that's the one I'm using) together with your trinket/dark soul.

I'm trying it right now on 1.7-1.8k rating with a ret paladin (he's combat healer glyphed) and we've won 6 matches in a row so far.

So, what do you guys think ;)? Tried it out yet?
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90 Worgen Warlock
14760
06/12/2012 17:50Posted by Ravous
and we've won 6 matches in a row so far.

Erm. Congratulations?
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90 Undead Warlock
6670
Just trying to share options here mate, we went 12 to 1 after I went for dark apotheosis so it might be viable for others as well who are now struggling as demo after the 33% nerf.
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88 Night Elf Priest
4160
So you essentially don't bother with demon form?
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90 Undead Warlock
6670
Yeah I stay in dark apotheosis throughout the match so I don't lose the demonic fury I build up. Advantages over normal form would be:

Demonic leap, instant pet summon, aura and carrion swarm available without wasting demonic fury and another global to switch back after (normally you'd have to go from humanoid form to meta just to use these skills)
60k absorb on 12 sec cooldown, 2 stacks and also absorbs melee damage.
Aura is much easier to maintain because you will usually have enough demo fury ready.

Also, carrion swarm is much easier to use because you can now use it every time it's up as you don't have to switch forms for it.
Demonic leap being available faster and being much more user friendly also makes you able to leap towards a healer to CC while you'd normally have to run after him if the first fear brought him out of range, giving you much more control.

On top of that, while in dark apotheosis you have around 50% damage reduction from your armor increase on top of a passive 18% physical damage reduction and 15% spelldamage reduction. Combine that with the 120k damage absorb from Fury Ward, knockback and demonic leap and you're pretty much unkillable while still doing great damage.
Edited by Ravous on 06/12/2012 20:03 GMT
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88 Night Elf Priest
4160
Do you not feel as if you build fury too slowly and lose it too fast? I just tried it in a couple of BGs, and it is rather fun I admit.
Edited by Ilyandra on 06/12/2012 23:40 GMT
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90 Troll Warlock
4790
nice idea, but are you sure you aren't just alot mroe durable now? your damage shouldn't be as good as caster form..
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90 Undead Warlock
6670
@hyandra, I don't think it builds too slowly or goes away too fast. If you don't stack hand of gul' dan buff you will have a nice dot building your fury that's up 75% of your time + it's aoe, also you'd keep corruption on your targets, slashes are instant demo fury and fall within your "rotation" perfectly. On top of that you also have your imps, wild imps and pet to build fury with you so no, I never really lack the fury when I need it.

@Devio, litterally the only thing that's different between caster form and when in dark apotheosis is that instead of spamming fel flame you now spam demonic slash (which for me in fully geared targets still goes for 25k ish). On top of that you're less squishy so you have more uptime in combat + your wild imp procs no longer require a cast spell (slash also procs the imp, meaning you have more imp uptime as well).
Apart from that, where you'd normally save your on use trinket + dark soul for that double chaos wave you can now use it with grimoire: service + imps which together do crazy burst (I can kill a person from 100% to 0 with only my pets + cooldowns within let's say, 15 secs? All while I can litterally just run on top of the healer cc spamming him around the map. If you have a dps partner like I do the person will die even faster).

I've solo'ed several healer/dps teams after my partner died purely because of the damage the pets do while I chain cc the healer. Burst rotation here for me is: Wild imps > Trinket+soul+service macro > fear healer > hand of gul'dan/demo slash x3 on dps > coil healer > hand of gul'dan > fear healer > slash x3 > stun healer (fel guard) > hopefully get the kill by now.
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100 Undead Warlock
14145
That really can give one ideas. It is bit unsure if it really would work at higher ranks but the mid level could be quite fun indeed. Will have to try it out now the next time I go to arena eventhough sadly most of the time the enemy team goes against my healer friend. But I can add somethin from my own exp to the pool of reasons why DA is so good - at one match we had to face against double frost mage and DA was the ONLY thing that kept me alive through the mad burst of double frost bombs.
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100 Human Warlock
19995
Well I v been using DA and soul link/sacrifice spec for about half a month now and even though i don`t really do competitive pvp anymore , i do a lot of normal bgs . So the points i have so far .
This could probably work if you are paired whit a class with a good burst that can continue bursting under pressure .
This spec wont work against healers very well .
It works worse against classes with massive absorbs ( priest- mage)
It works averagely against classes with self heals ( say warriors or bm hunter )
Basically in this spec you will be filling the role of an extra cc . Use your deathcoil ,fear someone , while being almost immune to damage and hope that your teammate will be able to burst the enemy down fast . I would say this works very well with a balance druid .
Pretty good against teams without healer.
PVP weapon is absolutely necessary , so you can at-least suppress self healing of enemy team.
Your a walking decoy that can`t die fast .
This spec can probably work well with a teammate , but on its own is utter crap .

Frankly i would appreciate a buff where at-least 50 % of the demonic fury generated is not lost when switching stance.
Edited by Aprix on 08/12/2012 06:48 GMT
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100 Human Warlock
19995
ps just tried the spec suggested above, (servitude/imp swarm ,lets call it pet cleave ) , it does work out pretty well in bgs , but it has trouble with classes that can root many mobs at once and know how to go behind pillar and wait out your demon soul to go off .
Edited by Aprix on 08/12/2012 06:28 GMT
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90 Worgen Warlock
8935
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I thought Dark Soul doesn't affect your dps whilst in Dark Apo, as mastery behaves differently. Mastery becomes a defensive attribute whilst in dark apo? So I'm not sure why you are lining up your DS for offensive moments?

Maybe I'm missing something..
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90 Human Death Knight
8730
07/12/2012 15:45Posted by Ravous
Wild imps > Trinket+soul


Dark Soul in Dark Apotheosis form is only a damage reduction CD. I wasn't 100% sure but I just checked, and yes, mastery in DA form does not increase damage, and that's why your damage is lower than in caster form.

But it still does increase damage done by pets and minions right?
Edit: sure it does, checked that too. Let's try the tanking PVP lock before Blizz realizes it's fun and they nerf it :)
Edited by Grêy on 10/12/2012 11:45 GMT
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90 Undead Warlock
6670
Hmm yeah didn't realize the additional defensive way you can use dark soul, thanks for pointing that out. So on top of having really strong pets with soul+trink you also get loads of damage reduction <3
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100 Worgen Warlock
6935
Quick bump. I rather enjoy this in BGs, but I'm a noob so...

More discussion would be nice.
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90 Goblin Warlock
4315
The problem of DA pvp is the lack of a good offensive ability
You do built up DF, you can use it for defence, but the only DF cost ability to nuke is Soul Fire which drains 80DF per cast (assuming procs of course).

On the other hand using Demonic slash+immolation aura seems do about the same dps and also generate DF instead of losing it, means you can use a later shield or nuke again.

Someone would add that using immolation+Soul Fire would be the best dmg,but in pvp none one is going to sit next to me with immolation and let me cast soul fire on top of it too...they would run away or interrupt...

Plus void ray is a joke for DA and we lost our Melee dmg (about 10% of our dmg)
Fact is that the only cast we use is soul fire which isnt really worth it and except that everything is instant...so why did they also remove Melee from us...
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100 Worgen Warlock
6935
Yeah, I admit it's offensive stuff which is the real issue. Basically, you're right!
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90 Undead Warlock
11805
2v2 spec really, you can bring quite the utility with it.
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
9545
I've been enjoying a semi simular version of this approach as well.

It's very enjoyable.
Which means it'll take a few weeks before blizzard wrecks it :P
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