Updatede Suggestion to Gold Coin Chance

90 Tauren Druid
11520
no

duplicate gear has always been in the game..

the more gear you allready have, the more likely you're gonna get a duplicate
it's the same in dungeons, in normal raids and heroic..

live with it!

stop wanting to gear up so fast


I know. but now they made the coin systems for us. and we can therefor come with suggestion or complains. this is more a suggestion that a complain.. so that the players with other specs that 2 can have a 2ed chance to get gear for OFF Spec there in the end can benefint a raid
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MVP
100 Gnome Priest
20055
I don't think there's anything wrong in being able to get duplicate items. It ensures that acquiring the loot still feels very much like a lottery, and not something you can easily predict, ala: "Last time I got the boots, and the only other item the boss drops for me is a belt, so I'll get that next time."

As far as the gold from the bonus roll goes, then it should just be substantially increased in my opinion. Instead of being in the tens, it should be in the hundreds.
I mean, getting gold should feel great. Perhaps not as great as getting an epic item, but great none the less. It is gold after all. It's something we generally like getting.
So I think the issue is more that the current 28g50s feel terrible because it's such a small amount – not because it's gold. So if you simply got a lot more gold, I think the reaction would be: "Aww, I didn't win an epic item, but it's okay, because I got a ton of gold!".

I think the coolest would be if the gold from the bonus roll was slightly randomised, so you could either get a big amount of gold, a bigger amount of gold, or a huge amount of gold. That way it would always feel okay to not win an epic item, because you'd still get some gold. But in the case you were really lucky, you might even get so much gold that it felt more awesome than the epic item you had initially hoped to get.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12565
10/12/2012 15:02Posted by Jito
I think the coolest would be if the gold from the bonus roll was slightly randomised, so you could either get a big amount of gold, a bigger amount of gold, or a huge amount of gold. That way it would always feel okay to not win an epic item, because you'd still get some gold. But in the case you were really lucky, you might even get so much gold that it felt more awesome than the epic item you had initially hoped to get.


Honestly, this is an excellent idea.
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90 Tauren Druid
11520
I don't think there's anything wrong in being able to get duplicate items. It ensures that acquiring the loot still feels very much like a lottery, and not something you can easily predict, ala: "Last time I got the boots, and the only other item the boss drops for me is a belt, so I'll get that next time."

As far as the gold from the bonus roll goes, then it should just be substantially increased in my opinion. Instead of being in the tens, it should be in the hundreds.
I mean, getting gold should feel great. Perhaps not as great as getting an epic item, but great none the less. It is gold after all. It's something we generally like getting.
So I think the issue is more that the current 28g50s feel terrible because it's such a small amount – not because it's gold. So if you simply got a lot more gold, I think the reaction would be: "Aww, I didn't win an epic item, but it's okay, because I got a ton of gold!".

I think the coolest would be if the gold from the bonus roll was slightly randomised, so you could either get a big amount of gold, a bigger amount of gold, or a huge amount of gold. That way it would always feel okay to not win an epic item, because you'd still get some gold. But in the case you were really lucky, you might even get so much gold that it felt more awesome than the epic item you had initially hoped to get.


Notice this

The "2ed Bonus Roll" can give Gear for any Spec not just MS. so you might get Boomking/Resto Gear as a Gurdian.

that so say I got Boots last time = only 1 item I need dont work.. unless you are one of the Pure Dps Classes. with 1 or 2 specs. might need some chances to my suggestion so stuff like that wont happen.
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Community
While I understand that getting an item that you already have can be somewhat frustrating, this is actually nothing new, since the very beginning of WoW that players have been killing bosses and getting completely randomized loot.

The Elder Charms of Good Fortune are supposed to be an extra chance at getting loot, if anything, having this option the way it currently is, might be already too loot “friendly” in my opinion.
This option was added because we understand that sometimes players can be after a specific item (remember those Dragonspine Trophy hunting days…), this way they get to decide which bosses are the most important for their characters and have a higher chance of grabbing a specific item that they’re so anxious to get their hands on.
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10/12/2012 15:46Posted by Taepsilum
While I understand that getting an item that you already have can be somewhat frustrating, this is actually nothing new, since the very beginning of WoW that players have been killing bosses and getting completely randomized loot.

This is true. But previously you could make other people happy with the loot. Currently, the loot just sits in your inventory being about a useful as a spare tire in the back of a car you never use.

10/12/2012 15:46Posted by Taepsilum
The Elder Charms of Good Fortune are supposed to be an extra chance at getting loot, if anything, having this option the way it currently is, might be already too loot “friendly” in my opinion.

I personally prefer the old system. but this one is raher neat. The only problem I see with this is the randomized 'getting another item you already have'. Some bosses simply drop quite a few items that you need, and getting a copy of one you already have is a bit tedious. At those times I prefer seeing some extra gold drop.
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MVP
100 Gnome Priest
20055
10/12/2012 15:31Posted by Xecetoz
The "2ed Bonus Roll" can give Gear for any Spec not just MS. so you might get Boomking/Resto Gear as a Gurdian.

No it rewards gear based on your current spec. The charm just gives you another roll for loot on the boss, and you always get loot according to your current spec.

There were some bugs early in Mists of Pandaria with some specs being awarded wrong items, but I think that has been sorted out. At least you shouldn't be getting Restoration items if you're a Guardian Druid. At least not to my awareness.
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95 Draenei Paladin
3985
The Elder Charms of Good Fortune are supposed to be an extra chance at getting loot, if anything, having this option the way it currently is, might be already too loot “friendly” in my opinion.


I disagree.

As a player who cannot always find time to raid, LFR and the bonus has opened up a new facet of WoW for me. At least I have a chance now to see the content and to get some rewards - albeit not Heroic quality.

I had a VERY lucky run on MSV a few days ago. On the bonus roll I got The King's Guard Chest Plate, Starshatter and then Final Orders (no coin).

I confess I "woohooo"'d. Three times.

This has inspired me to stick with WoW despite having limited play time. Had I spent months running dungeons and raids and came up empty-handed, I'd likely drop WoW.
Edited by Valkrys on 10/12/2012 16:17 GMT
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90 Human Hunter
10120
10/12/2012 15:46Posted by Taepsilum
While I understand that getting an item that you already have can be somewhat frustrating, this is actually nothing new, since the very beginning of WoW that players have been killing bosses and getting completely randomized loot.


Before current LFR loot system people didn't obtain items they already had, unless they activly needed on it (ninja). True that an item that I already had equipped could drop from a boss, but if it did it would simply go to another player who didn't have it. I have gotten the same item up to 3 times, and even though I have queue'd with another hunter friend who didn't have the item I got for the 3rd time, I can't give it to her. I end up vendoring something that is a total waste for me, but that could be a helpful upgrade for my friend.
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90 Tauren Druid
11520
The "2ed Bonus Roll" can give Gear for any Spec not just MS. so you might get Boomking/Resto Gear as a Gurdian.

No it rewards gear based on your current spec. The charm just gives you another roll for loot on the boss, and you always get loot according to your current spec.

There were some bugs early in Mists of Pandaria with some specs being awarded wrong items, but I think that has been sorted out. At least you shouldn't be getting Restoration items if you're a Guardian Druid. At least not to my awareness.


I know that its based on your current spec but what I try to say is that the First Bonus Roll give MS gear if you get an item that you allready got once in LFR/Normal/HC from coins "Not Boss drops" you would get a option to take the item. get coin back or do a Reroll "Bonus" and its the Bonus there can give stuff from all specs so I as MS Gurdian might get OS Resto gear or useless Feral/Balance. just like 4 Mastery/dodge Trinkets are useless for me and others there might get the same item agian and again.
Edited by Xecetoz on 10/12/2012 16:29 GMT
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1 Troll Priest
0
10/12/2012 15:46Posted by Taepsilum
This option was added because we understand that sometimes players can be after a specific item (remember those Dragonspine Trophy hunting days…), this way they get to decide which bosses are the most important for their characters and have a higher chance of grabbing a specific item that they’re so anxious to get their hands on.


Which is great but it does encourage people to repeat 1/2 bosses and then immediately drop group. Obviously it's anecdotal but MSV part 2 seems to be full of casters who go for Elegon and disappear before the raid has even got to Will.

I don't pretend to have a wizzy solution to that btw.
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90 Undead Rogue
15705
10/12/2012 15:46Posted by Taepsilum
(remember those Dragonspine Trophy hunting days…)


The wounds are still healing.
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MVP
100 Gnome Priest
20055
10/12/2012 16:25Posted by Xecetoz
I know that its based on your current spec but what I try to say is that the First Bonus Roll give MS gear if you get an item that you allready got once in LFR/Normal/HC from coins "Not Boss drops" you would get a option to take the item. get coin back or do a Reroll "Bonus" and its the Bonus there can give stuff from all specs so I as MS Gurdian might get OS Resto gear or useless Feral/Balance.

Ah okay, so a way to acquire some offspec gear if you so choose?
I personally wouldn't mind a way to obtain offspec gear. I sometimes see tanks who have queued as dps, but then they get kicked because they don't have sufficient dps gear, which makes you wonder how they're ever going to get it. You're sort of pigeon-holded into your main spec in a way.
At the same time I do like the fact that the charms are very simplistic in their nature. You kill a boss, you get prompted to use a charm, and then that's it. I'm not sure it's good design if you were able to "reroll" whatever you won with the charm initially. That just makes the whole process longer and more complicated, which isn't desirable I think. And then there's the fact that your reroll may result in something worse than what you got from your initial roll, resulting in the fact that you end up with a dissapointing feeling. And that definitely shouldn't be the case. Begins to seem more like gambling at that point rather than a perk or a bonus, so to speak.
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Please keep the System as it is, it's good.

First things first, loot should be random getting items excluded takes the random chance away. While sometimes it might be frustrating that you don't get an item without RNG you would end up with all you items in two weeks and one of the major factors which keep the content interesting after you cleared it several times would disappear. Short RNG is part of the game and should stay part of the game, even if you may deny it, it is clearly shown that items are one of the main long term motivations of games.

Secondly, why can't you give other players the bonus items? Well YOU did the extra work to get the coins so you should get the bonus and not someone else. While I might like to give my items to other players in case I don't need it. It's just the principle of the bonus loot system a person putting in the little extra effort should get a bonus, a person who doesn't shouldn't.

And don't forget that when you raid normal or hc, you still can share the drops. While I agree that it sucks that you can't trade the LFR dropped items (and only the non-bonus dropped items!). The new loot system there is the consequence of all the greedy guys who needed stuff for other people or who simply didn't need them. And while (like I already said) would like to share the drops, I still prefer the new LFR loot system 100% more than the old when, because I can accept not getting items or double items, but I can't stand people who roll on items they don't need or just for a friend.

Finally there is (at least I assume there is) also logical reason behind the non share policy. First of all in LFR, if you could share items, they had to reduce the dropchance because otherwise, you would get items FAR faster than before. Everyone has +- the old chance for an item add it up with alle the players who share loot table with you and you receive far more loot. Thus comparing with the old system there had to be only around 4 players in the entire raid which get items. This would be horribly frustrating, especially if people weren't so nice to share their loot with you.

As for the bonus roll, it's already a great advantage if you compare it to the old system.
Let's assume you raid 10man with a 12 bosses tier. Say every boss drops as usual 2 items, so you would recieve 24 items.
Now lets see the new system, lets assume everyone in the raids did dailies and has 3 coins (as it is usually). Now you have 24 items + bonus rolls. Let's just assume it's the same chance to win a bonus roll, than a lfr roll. And since in lfr the chances nearly didn't change we should have a 4/25 chance (4 Items for 25 people). I realise this isn't correct but lets just assume it. Then you would get 10(players)*3(coins)*4/25(chance) = 4.8 bonus items. Let's round it up to 5 and you would get 29 items instead of 24. Which would be 20% more items than before which is huge.
And this just average you also might get up to 30 bonus items (which is of course nearly impossible, but possible)

So as you can see it would dramatically increase the loot, which would have:
a) a reduced drop chance in raids as result or
b) a very very low dropchance for bonus roll loot.

Finally I would like to say the only change, which I is the addition of vanity and other bonus items in the bonus roll, which they have been talking about. Something like in the satchel you get from Dungeon Call to arms. (For those who don't know: chance for gems/pots/flask and very low chances for pets&mounts)
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90 Tauren Druid
11520
10/12/2012 16:45Posted by Jito
I know that its based on your current spec but what I try to say is that the First Bonus Roll give MS gear if you get an item that you allready got once in LFR/Normal/HC from coins "Not Boss drops" you would get a option to take the item. get coin back or do a Reroll "Bonus" and its the Bonus there can give stuff from all specs so I as MS Gurdian might get OS Resto gear or useless Feral/Balance.

Ah okay, so a way to acquire some offspec gear if you so choose?
I personally wouldn't mind a way to obtain offspec gear. I sometimes see tanks who have queued as dps, but then they get kicked because they don't have sufficient dps gear, which makes you wonder how they're ever going to get it. You're sort of pigeon-holded into your main spec in a way.
At the same time I do like the fact that the charms are very simplistic in their nature. You kill a boss, you get prompted to use a charm, and then that's it. I'm not sure it's good design if you were able to "reroll" whatever you won with the charm initially. That just makes the whole process longer and more complicated, which isn't desirable I think. And then there's the fact that your reroll may result in something worse than what you got from your initial roll, resulting in the fact that you end up with a dissapointing feeling. And that definitely shouldn't be the case. Begins to seem more like gambling at that point rather than a perk or a bonus, so to speak.


Well its sort of a way to get off spec gear aswell.

Week 1

Boss Died drops items

you use Coin to get Bonus Loot

Wee Loot :D

Week 2

Boss Died drops items

you use coin to get Bonus Loot

Bah same as last week.. useless

Error Box pops up and gives 3 Options

1 Keep loot "Dublicate"
2 Reclaime 50% of coin = 45 Silver or a full coin = less of the anoying dailys. :D
3 Reroll but this time OS gear can be droped aswell. so 1 Boss gives 2 items to MS now give 7 items "MS/OS"

Roll the "Reroll" and get Gold Bah.. -.-
or Lucky
Roll the "Reroll" and get that 1 item you needed for MS an OS.

do it happen that the Reroll lands on the same items once agian its just bad luck. its the end you get it. "Dublicate"

this wont apply to Tier items! or mounts!
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90 Gnome Rogue
11035
1. go to Blingtron

2. Put in 3 Gold Coins

3. Choose any Item you want out of your current progress loot table (You only went LFR up until now, only LFR loot to choose from. You only cleared MSV Normal? Only MSV Normal loot and LFR to choose from.. etc)
4. ????????

5. HELL NO
Edited by Roothy on 10/12/2012 17:24 GMT
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90 Tauren Druid
11710
you roll with Gold coin and Win an Item.


hahaha good one

33 coins and not a single item :<
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90 Troll Hunter
19140
While suggestion is good, but blizzard should tuning randomize of loot. I was after Madness Polearm 23 weeks, before drop once for our guild. This is 6 months almost to get specific loot, this is insane RNG. Now I am after BoW of MSV, 8 weeks I use gold coin there and bow didn't drop or win loot from coin. So, if blizzard want to wash his hands with rng of loot and put this gold coin mechanic, still don't fix insane rng that can have specially in 10man raid groups.
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MVP
100 Gnome Priest
20055
10/12/2012 17:56Posted by Lidocaine
Now I am after BoW of MSV, 8 weeks I use gold coin there and bow didn't drop or win loot from coin.

It's probably worth pointing out that you can spend multiple charms in LFR on the same boss – in the same reset, if you want to.
So instead of spending one charm each week on the same boss for 8 weeks, then you can also just do the same boss 8 times in one week, and spend a charm each time.
So it is possible to minimize the RNG over a longer period of time by doing that, and almost brute-force a certain item to drop. It does require some effort though.
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90 Troll Druid
13520
If anything I'd ask blizzard to remove the coin system completely, it seems people who run lfr isn't happy with having an extra chance (despite rng not being anything new)

The amount of moaning this system is producing these days is beyond reasoning honestly!
Edited by Banzhe on 10/12/2012 18:26 GMT
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