Wy are we forced to accept any half LFR?

90 Human Paladin
6850

As it is right now, if you enter an on-going run, you're pretty much guaranteed a fresh instance on your next visit. In addition, the developers are considering adding a buff that players in LFR might receive if they wipe on a boss that would boost their stats, which they also hope it might help those impatient players that will leave their current LFR run after a wipe.


Omg... you are joking.... Fix the real issues with the current system ! The real issues are that Qs are way to long because healers and tanks are forced to Q up as DPS to get Dps gear (for faster dailies, Brawler's guild ec). I waited 50 mins last night as dps - and then was forced to go healing spec when finally got in cause 3 "healers" had no healing gear.

You dont buff ppl when they suck. You simply let ppl that are good and geared to do the content in their role and allow them to get offspec gear. That makes the Qs shorter and runs more likely to get finished.

Every single player in WOW is now suffering in LFR - just because BLizzard can't admit how bad the current system is when it comes to offspec gearing... The loot system needs to change so that players can choose if they take main spec or offspec gear.
Edited by Anon on 10/12/2012 17:59 GMT
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81 Troll Shaman
21130
the new system is not in any way different than DS LFR when it comes to offspec gear tho. if anything it's easier to get offspec gear now as you get gear for spec and not role, while in DS you had to roll for your queud role.
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90 Human Paladin
6850
10/12/2012 18:01Posted by Yulanda
the new system is not in any way different than DS LFR when it comes to offspec gear tho. if anything it's easier to get offspec gear now as you get gear for spec and not role, while in DS you had to roll for your queud role.


The difference is that I could STILL roll greed on DPS gear and had a chance getting it later on when most DPS classes had got it already. Thats where this new system fails. It does not take into account that ppl will be gearing up over time.
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90 Night Elf Priest
18745
Doing that boss will give you valor without doing dailies and could use your elder charm for more loot.


only if you havent used a charm on your first run tho. so using the charm as an argument isnt really valid.


You sure it works that way in LFR?
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90 Night Elf Priest
18745
10/12/2012 18:07Posted by Anon
the new system is not in any way different than DS LFR when it comes to offspec gear tho. if anything it's easier to get offspec gear now as you get gear for spec and not role, while in DS you had to roll for your queud role.


The difference is that I could STILL roll greed on DPS gear and had a chance getting it later on when most DPS classes had got it already. Thats where this new system fails. It does not take into account that ppl will be gearing up over time.


It does. As soon as I got dps items I can queue up as healer for those parts - since the loot is not shared among almost all the bosses as in DS.

And it is clearly better designed for classes with multiple dps-specs like shamans, druids, warriors, dks. By being personal it is also better designed for classes whose healing and dps-specs share gear like druids, shamans, priests.

I highly doubt that you got much/any off-spec dps gear as holy paladin in DS. Off-spec tanking gear I could believe.
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90 Troll Druid
13520
"oh no someone decided they didn't want to chaperone the mouth-breathing astounding idiots, we better penalise them for valuing their own time."

Your logic, and apparently Blizzard's too.


One of the reasons why the counter was removed was to reduce the amount of players fishing for a fresh instance. It was something that was becoming an issue for all the players that were stuck in on-going groups waiting for new players to join.

When those groups were waiting at, say 2/3, the queue would start looking for new replacements, those replacements would see the queue and decided to skip it in favor of a fresh instance, creating and endless loop for the guys inside the instance where more people would leave as they grew impatient, making it harder to complete the run.

As it is right now, if you enter an on-going run, you're pretty much guaranteed a fresh instance on your next visit. In addition, the developers are considering adding a buff that players in LFR might receive if they wipe on a boss that would boost their stats, which they also hope it might help those impatient players that will leave their current LFR run after a wipe.


The reason people are / were fishing Draztal, is due to the very nature of the encounter difficulty in lfr.
For a normal raider there's little to no skill involved to take down any boss in lfr, yet because it's so easy, you also have an overwhelming amount of players who for all intents and purposes seem to either not care how it goes, can't understand what's going on or simply refuse to listen, and that's even when a friendly soul tries to act as raid leader explaining very calmly what the boss is about.

While I can understand your reasoning to speed up the process in terms of having groups actually finishing the tiers, I don't see how it can be laid to the players as they're fault for this change.., after all, people have been saying for years now, that the game in overall terms are getting so easy that the curve that once exited to teach new players they're character etc is gone, and that's the fundamental issue when it comes to lfr encounters / players, it not really that lfr is overly simpel, it's the fact that the wast majority don't know how to counter simple mechanics as there's been no "training" on the way up, and that flows into everything once you reach "end-game".
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90 Worgen Hunter
6740
". In addition, the developers are considering adding a buff that players in LFR might receive if they wipe on a boss that would boost their stats, which they also hope it might help those impatient players that will leave their current LFR run after a wipe.


So basically u are saying ... we are gonna put LFR even more easy so that u all can put your 2 year baby brother clicking a button while u drink a cofee. And then give more cookies to impatient players so that they don't leave.
You should leave LFR was it is or make it even harder and fix loot.
And for the impatient players if they leave before 3 wipes they should get a 1 day desertion i guarantee you that everyone would wanted to finish :).
Edited by Lances on 10/12/2012 18:40 GMT
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90 Troll Hunter
17285
10/12/2012 16:22Posted by Draztal
the developers are considering adding a buff that players in LFR might receive if they wipe on a boss that would boost their stats, which they also hope it might help those impatient players that will leave their current LFR run after a wipe.


Yaay! Dumb it down even more...
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90 Human Paladin
6850


The difference is that I could STILL roll greed on DPS gear and had a chance getting it later on when most DPS classes had got it already. Thats where this new system fails. It does not take into account that ppl will be gearing up over time.


It does. As soon as I got dps items I can queue up as healer for those parts - since the loot is not shared among almost all the bosses as in DS.

And it is clearly better designed for classes with multiple dps-specs like shamans, druids, warriors, dks. By being personal it is also better designed for classes whose healing and dps-specs share gear like druids, shamans, priests.

I highly doubt that you got much/any off-spec dps gear as holy paladin in DS. Off-spec tanking gear I could believe.


You dont get the real issue here. Last night I had 3 healers that had ZERO healing gear. They just Qed as healers... Thats again ... where this system fails. It just looks at your ilvl of 1 spec and then allows you to go into whatever. It causes more issues than it fixes.

90-100% of players lvl as dps - meaning that they have not got their healing or tank offspec gear cause quest reward system was changed so you only get your spec gear.

Secondly. Not every dps player that plays hybrid will bother with healing or tanking. But EVERY single healer and tank is now aiming to get DPS gear for Brawlers guild and finishing dailies faster. And this leads to Qs becoming longer and everyone is waiting longer than if ppl could just Q up as their prefered role and then get the option of taking offspec gear.

This would still actually mean that BLizzard will have to go back to the drawing board and admit they failed.

Here is how they should do it.

I am a healer - I dont need a healing gear in LFR atm but will still do it to get dps gear. Instead of me Qing as DPS and making the Qs longer - I just Q as healer.

When I win a roll. It says I win. Then I see a list of 1 item for each spec my class can play that is dropping for that particular boss. Thats 3-4 items at most. I click one item and click the OK button. Thats how easy it would be.

Shorter Qs for everyone - faster finishing of LFR runs because ppl that have good gear for that spec could continue to play that spec. Everyone wins!
Edited by Anon on 10/12/2012 19:08 GMT
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90 Undead Warlock
20385
10/12/2012 16:22Posted by Draztal
One of the reasons why the counter was removed was to reduce the amount of players fishing for a fresh instance.


It stopped me fishing for half finished instances too!

Ended up wow-erroring before the last boss in HOF, I haven't the heart to run the rest of the instance again on an alt, I'd usually just fish for a 2/3 run while doing something else like pet battles, but that's not really an option anymore.

Not that I think I'm entitled to that option - I can appreciate that it was a change for the better even if it's inconvenienced me a bit.
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90 Pandaren Monk
14510
10/12/2012 19:00Posted by Anon
Secondly. Not every dps player that plays hybrid will bother with healing or tanking. But EVERY single healer and tank is now aiming to get DPS gear for Brawlers guild and finishing dailies faster.

By every you mean you and some others that you may know. Brawler may have some impact but doubt it's big.

Here is how they should do it.

I am a healer - I dont need a healing gear in LFR atm but will still do it to get dps gear. Instead of me Qing as DPS and making the Qs longer - I just Q as healer.

When I win a roll. It says I win. Then I see a list of 1 item for each spec my class can play that is dropping for that particular boss. Thats 3-4 items at most. I click one item and click the OK button. Thats how easy it would be.

Shorter Qs for everyone - faster finishing of LFR runs because ppl that have good gear for that spec could continue to play that spec. Everyone wins!

Rofl. Yeah, picking gear from the boss loot table, that's something they'll implement just like that.
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90 Human Paladin
6850


Shorter Qs for everyone - faster finishing of LFR runs because ppl that have good gear for that spec could continue to play that spec. Everyone wins!

Rofl. Yeah, picking gear from the boss loot table, that's something they'll implement just like that.


No - It will take time to implement that system - Longer than implementing a nerf system if you wipe ? lol ? Seriously? Cause thats what they say they are doing rather then REALLY fix the issues of ppl beeing forced to play offspec roles.

Right now most of the player base has done the raid content for first tier in some form (LFR, Normal or heroic). That content now needs staying power and 50 mins Q does not bring that.

Whats the priority here ?
a)Shortening the Qs and finishing more LFR raids without constantly having ppl leaving
b) giving gear to offspecs

Cause there is absolutly zero other things that this is about. Number of players Qing up in 1 of 3 roles. Nothing else affects Qs in LFR. Nothing.

When I go to the supermarket - I do not accept 50 mins waiting in Qs. And I will SURELY not go to a supermarket that lets me wait 50 mins in 1 Q and then another 50 in another Q when I have done 2/3rd of my shopping. You can say this is not the supermarket. True... but neither is this the only computer game in the world. And just like in the supermarket... ppl will not be returning to do more Qs the week after.

This is a simple question of priorities now. Is Blizzard gonna let ppl wait in Qs all MOP or are they gonna let ppl enjoy the game - EVEN if that means ppl can get offspec items in LFR...

Right now WOW needs STAYING power - not 50 mins long Qs. And what does Blizzard do? Bring longer Qs and NEW ones with Brawler's Guild! Obviously Blizzard dev's dont go to the supermarket very often....
Edited by Anon on 10/12/2012 20:51 GMT
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90 Night Elf Priest
18745
The reason you will not be allowed to choose from the loot-table is that they don't want such a large increase in gearing up; and they can't lower the drop-rate to compensate.

Basically LFR is fine now; there is no major issue to fix.

I have not seen any 50 minute dps queues lately - and after 5.1 I haven't seen the 50 minute queues at bosses either (with slight interruptions for ninja-pulls - the common pre-5.1 issue).
And if you want shorter queues there is always the simple option of bringing a healer friend.

I'm not even sure if queue time is even increasing; perhaps we are sufficiently many that respec TO healer.
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I never had fresh runs, and was against this idea thinking it would make it worse (somehow).

Had only one not fresh run since it was implemented. It certainly won me over.
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90 Human Paladin
6850
The reason you will not be allowed to choose from the loot-table is that they don't want such a large increase in gearing up; and they can't lower the drop-rate to compensate.

Basically LFR is fine now; there is no major issue to fix.

I have not seen any 50 minute dps queues lately - and after 5.1 I haven't seen the 50 minute queues at bosses either (with slight interruptions for ninja-pulls - the common pre-5.1 issue).
And if you want shorter queues there is always the simple option of bringing a healer friend.

I'm not even sure if queue time is even increasing; perhaps we are sufficiently many that respec TO healer.


It has been increasing. One reason is because ppl are now starting to leave on the bosses they dont get any upgrades on for that particular role and that on its own makes more half finished raids popping up for ppl. Thats 2 Qs per person for every 3 bosses.

This would automaticly get fixed with offspec rolls cause ppl would not need to leave. And having ppl that actually have gear for the roles makes it almost certain that there will be no wipes.

There are many ways to improve the current system. Making it easier if ppl wipe is NOT one of it. Thats total disgrace.

They could implement a system where roles that are lacking can roll for offspec items. That would bring in tanks and healers faster. But the Qs are getting longer. And they will continue to grow because of the current systems in the game.
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90 Night Elf Warrior
7785
10/12/2012 16:22Posted by Draztal
the developers are considering adding a buff that players in LFR might receive if they wipe on a boss that would boost their stats, which they also hope it might help those impatient players that will leave their current LFR run after a wipe.


Buff if you wipe?
Hmm, keep making wipes look like a sin.
Keep trying to create "all happy" situation.
People are not happy in lfr, there is hardly anything else but loot.
By bringing it even closer to the ground people will just decide to just jump out of this thing.

Fantasy game is smt that miracles are happening. This is turning more into 100% win investement. Thats not related to dreams, and that makes it boring. Soz, my personal opinion? Sure, it is my personal opinion. Just keep asking myself when i saw something fascinating, thrilling if you may, since LK or at best Nefarian+Onyxia remake. In 25 ppl version ofcourse...
3 weeks without any LFR. And i dont miss it one tiny little bit.

Never mnd the rumble...but buff for wipping eh?
And in LFR that everything is so redicoulously easy that encounters starts first and people are realizing they started after, and still one shot the boss 99% of the times!

How about handing over the loot after a try as well, no matter if the boss dies or not. Why the extra hassle?
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90 Human Priest
11915
10/12/2012 16:22Posted by Draztal
In addition, the developers are considering adding a buff that players in LFR might receive if they wipe on a boss that would boost their stats, which they also hope it might help those impatient players that will leave their current LFR run after a wipe.


I don't think that is necessary. Or that it would even make that big a difference.
Main reason for people leaving so lightly is just simply because joining a new one is so easy with little to no penalty leaving the old one.
Rewarding wipe with a buff would just cause abuse of this system: wipe on purpose, vanish, mass ress, kill with buff.
Making LFR even more convenient will just teach new players impatience and not appreciating the whole big deal a 25man raid should be.

LFR is plenty easy as it is. I hadn't raid since ICC, and when i joined new LFR i just winged em, without ever reading tacts or looking videos and without having any kind of RL. And on my second run I helped to organize and distributed in tacts. And I don't think I'm that exceptional player, it just IS that easy.
Edited by Deified on 11/12/2012 08:44 GMT
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90 Pandaren Priest
9470
10/12/2012 18:51Posted by Monkylord
the developers are considering adding a buff that players in LFR might receive if they wipe on a boss that would boost their stats, which they also hope it might help those impatient players that will leave their current LFR run after a wipe.


Yaay! Dumb it down even more...


Rofl are you kidding me? Make it more boring so more people go afk.

Just remove kick restrictions and let people actually kick slackers so we can finish the freaking raid without problems. !@#$%^-s are going to abuse it either way.
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90 Troll Priest
6860
^ Possibly an auto kick based on activity could work.

IMO as LFR queues have to wait most often for healers tune the encounters to need one less. Also when a boss dies flash up a 'roll for' box that shows each specs icon. Should help with queue times and people playing the wrong roles.

Started a LFR last week where we had 4 healers and people didnt want to wait so pulled, problem was the 4 healers were 3 dps and a tank. After that wipe it took 50 mins to get the group full in which time i couldn't even do dailies.
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90 Human Paladin
6850
^ Possibly an auto kick based on activity could work.

IMO as LFR queues have to wait most often for healers tune the encounters to need one less. Also when a boss dies flash up a 'roll for' box that shows each specs icon. Should help with queue times and people playing the wrong roles.

Started a LFR last week where we had 4 healers and people didnt want to wait so pulled, problem was the 4 healers were 3 dps and a tank. After that wipe it took 50 mins to get the group full in which time i couldn't even do dailies.


Thats fantastic idea m8. It would solve alot of the current LFR issues.

But ye..... More and more ppl are just changing specs now even tho they dont have the gear to do them. Thats a very serious issue and will lead to wipes and less enjoyable runs for others.

Things are just gonna get worse the furher we get into this tier. Blizzard is not reacting and doing things to improve the role imbalance and preventing ppl to play roles that they have no gear for. We are at a new low in PVE content in WOW. And bad design and horrible understanding from the developers about very basic concept of roles is just making this worse every week.
Edited by Anon on 11/12/2012 10:26 GMT
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