Wy are we forced to accept any half LFR?

28 Undead Rogue
300

As it is right now, if you enter an on-going run, you're pretty much guaranteed a fresh instance on your next visit. In addition, the developers are considering adding a buff that players in LFR might receive if they wipe on a boss that would boost their stats, which they also hope it might help those impatient players that will leave their current LFR run after a wipe.


So.... LFR really IS a loot pinata.

Fail on the few remaining tactics? Don't worry, here's a buff so you can ignore those too.

Perhaps a better idea is to tell the player what to do after a wipe during the next attempt, so they get at least a little training. Messages during the fight like: "get behind the boss!". Perhaps those message will anoy people so much that they won't wipe anymore :p
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90 Pandaren Monk
14510
@ Anon: sorry I think I completely misread your suggestion. I'm a big favor of just selecting your spec to roll on for gear per boss too. I thought for some reason you wanted all loot for that specific spec to pop up and you got to chose it, my bad.
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90 Human Mage
11905
It has been increasing. One reason is because ppl are now starting to leave on the bosses they dont get any upgrades on for that particular role and that on its own makes more half finished raids popping up for ppl. Thats 2 Qs per person for every 3 bosses.


How do you come to more half finished raid when there seem to be plenty of players that have seen much less of these after the change then before it?

Before the change I was faced with pretty much 2 queus for every part, the 2 weeks since the change I was put in 1 half finished group for all 10 raids.
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90 Human Warlock
4620
And exactly what is the difference me waiting for a fresh group to show, or que get 1/3 do last 2 bosses reque and leave after first? it only moving the "problem"
All it does is make me que 2 times, and it not 99% you get a fresh run after i had to reque 3 times before i got a fresh to finish the first boss that 2 times deserter and a 20 min que.
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90 Human Paladin
6850
11/12/2012 12:05Posted by Sarni
It has been increasing. One reason is because ppl are now starting to leave on the bosses they dont get any upgrades on for that particular role and that on its own makes more half finished raids popping up for ppl. Thats 2 Qs per person for every 3 bosses.


How do you come to more half finished raid when there seem to be plenty of players that have seen much less of these after the change then before it?

Before the change I was faced with pretty much 2 queus for every part, the 2 weeks since the change I was put in 1 half finished group for all 10 raids.


The reason why you are now likely to get into half finished raids is because ppl are leaving on bosses to Q up for another role to get loot. That is ... the honest players do that - then there are those that just switch roles whenever they want - go from healer to dps and expect ppl to find that perfectly acceptable. This is happening more and more now - leading to more chance of raids wiping.

The current system is faulty cause it does not detect the ilvl for every role. Still ppl are beeing forced to change roles or specs to get different gear. This is just calling for problems and annoyance for the honest decent players that dont behave like this. And it also means that those players are Qing up longer - waiting up to hour for 1 raid ... and at the same time are unable to play their alts cause most of the time in the game goes to waiting. Thats how faulty the current system is and the first thing Blizzard needs to do is to fix the Q times - and to make sure that LFRs are finished in shortest time possible with as little fuss as possible. That is best done by allowing players to roll for offspec items so they Q up in their strongest spec and help the raid to get finished.
Edited by Anon on 11/12/2012 17:38 GMT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
15240
10/12/2012 17:12Posted by Yulanda
the developers are considering adding a buff that players in LFR might receive if they wipe on a boss that would boost their stats, which they also hope it might help those impatient players that will leave their current LFR run after a wipe.


this is pretty much the best thing you could have ever done to sort the issue. do this, and bring the counter back instead :)


You are kidding right?

I can see idiots running wiping raids on purpose now to get the buff so they can epeen about their numbers in the "special olympics" of raids.

Just no.
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90 Night Elf Priest
18745
11/12/2012 12:05Posted by Sarni
It has been increasing. One reason is because ppl are now starting to leave on the bosses they dont get any upgrades on for that particular role and that on its own makes more half finished raids popping up for ppl. Thats 2 Qs per person for every 3 bosses.


How do you come to more half finished raid when there seem to be plenty of players that have seen much less of these after the change then before it?

Before the change I was faced with pretty much 2 queus for every part, the 2 weeks since the change I was put in 1 half finished group for all 10 raids.


I believe there is a simple explanation for the fact that most of us get fresh raids with shorter queue times now - and the OP doesn't:

If you leave without clearing the instance you might be more likely to end up in a half-finished raid with a long queue-time.
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90 Human Paladin
19140
Omg... you are joking.... Fix the real issues with the current system ! The real issues are that Qs are way to long because healers and tanks are forced to Q up as DPS to get Dps gear (for faster dailies, Brawler's guild ec).


Ty Indeed to get rank 8 for brawler i need dps increase i simply can`t put out enough constant pressure of 80k atm to burst focussed sigh. But oke why do i ahve this like others said. My ms as tank simply doesn`t work for dilies or brawlers guild same with healers of hybrid classes. So 1st msv eays all 3 dps but second msv prob. i q as dps and need to switch to tank (bloody shield never drops...) in a corner, ye si`m cheating my fellow cheaters. But what choose do i have q as tank an dget 2/3 just to /leave instantly because i need the boss as dps?

And here is the worst part doing 4th boss as dp so after first 3 bosses i have to leave and instead of 3/4 q as dps i alway`s get tada 0/4 for leaving. Wodnerfull system huh. make an ofspec/ms button since this change just only benefits healer, dps or tank only players.

ps: only reason i switch to tank at spirit kings ohwell people won`t notice it afterall. Just kepe dps gear 1hand/shield still do enough dps. No complaint slets do that at sha tank > dps uhm..... re q......
Edited by Lightgoddes on 12/12/2012 17:08 GMT
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90 Night Elf Druid
11250
To Blizzard:

Your logic behind this move proves without doubt that you are working against player demand and that you are out of touch with your customer base. "We have done this because so many people want a fresh run as opposed to a run in progress"

Original Blizzard would have picked up on that and said "OK, what can we do to encourage more people to complete full runs 0/3 - 3/3? That is the way that we have designed the encounters - it is the logical progression."

Instead, this Corporation that runs the game now says: "OK, let's cater for the people who are disinterested in the gameplay, want to hop in and out spec changing, simply want valor points, etc."

Patch day I put in a ticket about this - is this a bug or intentional, can you let me know - 4 days I was interacting with support staff, got a lot of automated replies and no straight answer to my question - for some reason they seemed to have been gagged.

In the past people were analysing changes that were introduced to gauge the impact on the game and it's popularity amongst the player base, now it just feels like some detached bod in a suit has made the decision based on what feels right to them. It is as though Blizzard's priorities have changed, perhaps onto a new MMO project, and that this game is just treading water - bringing in a fraction of the subs that it used to, because Blizzard have given up on us.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
11000
Your logic behind this move proves without doubt that you are working against player demand and that you are out of touch with your customer base. "We have done this because so many people want a fresh run as opposed to a run in progress"

Original Blizzard would have picked up on that and said "OK, what can we do to encourage more people to complete full runs 0/3 - 3/3? That is the way that we have designed the encounters - it is the logical progression."

How do you encourage someone who doesn't want any more gear to stay for a full run?

With Valor? It's quicker and easier to get valor capped by other means, the people leaving before a raid is over has already indicated that a 90/45 Valor Point bribe is not enough?

With coins? Those merely give the opportunity for more rolls, which leaves players to join other runs so they can spend them on just one boss and then leave.

With gold? If they really wanted gold, the auctionhouse or farming already give you more gold than needed.

There are two issues here, people leaving the raid and people joining the raid. Blizzard has very effectively dealt with the issue of people not joining the raid, and the general consensus seems to be that it has meant that more fresh runs start.

I just don't see any way you can make a person stay in a raid group. Lock them to a raid ID perhaps, since then they will only get that one raid instance to clear and if they leave then they miss out on loot. But that would likely also give a raid that loses people the kiss of death, because who wants to get save for a 2/3 raid group?

12/12/2012 18:40Posted by Dornstorker
n the past people were analysing changes that were introduced to gauge the impact on the game and it's popularity amongst the player base

How do you assess the popularity of a change to a system, when the player base doesn't even know how the system works in the first place? All you would get out of that would be some emotional response, but besides that you would get no useful information. On those issues you just have to make a decision, implement it and be ready to revert back if things go horribly wrong.
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90 Gnome Rogue
15635
10/12/2012 16:22Posted by Draztal
When those groups were waiting at, say 2/3, the queue would start looking for new replacements, those replacements would see the queue and decided to skip it in favor of a fresh instance, creating and endless loop for the guys inside the instance where more people would leave as they grew impatient, making it harder to complete the run.


... SO MAKE THE LFR EASIER SINCE IT WAS OBVIOUSLY TOO HARD?

My god, this logic.
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Being a healer, it is nearly impossible to get a fresh run. I want to decide for myself if I want to join a half finished raid or not, I don't want it shoved down my throat. I don't mind if it means declining countless 2/6 offers, I want a fresh run!
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90 Night Elf Druid
11250
You are missing my point entirely, Elathin. Without getting into the specifics of how to solve the problem, I am questioning their identification of the problem in the first place. If more of us were happier with the old system, how did they come to the decision that this is the problem that needed fixing?

And yes, when you have a client-centred product, such as this game, you assess the success or failure of your changes by gauging your customers' response to the change
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90 Blood Elf Priest
14550
10/12/2012 16:22Posted by Draztal
In addition, the developers are considering adding a buff that players in LFR might receive if they wipe on a boss that would boost their stats, which they also hope it might help those impatient players that will leave their current LFR run after a wipe.


This sounds dangerous.
Someone may cause a wipe on purpose to get the buff.
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90 Night Elf Priest
18745
You are missing my point entirely, Elathin. Without getting into the specifics of how to solve the problem, I am questioning their identification of the problem in the first place. If more of us were happier with the old system, how did they come to the decision that this is the problem that needed fixing?

And yes, when you have a client-centred product, such as this game, you assess the success or failure of your changes by gauging your customers' response to the change


Yes, they did - and the simple fact is that more of us are happier with the result of the new system.

The results are: More fresh runs; not standing still waiting for group to fill for 30+ minutes (and I hope I never see the cata-issue of leaving a failed group and madness and requeuing 2 hours later to join the same one).
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
11000
12/12/2012 19:53Posted by Dornstorker
If more of us were happier with the old system, how did they come to the decision that this is the problem that needed fixing?

Because a lot of people were sitting around clicking Cancel all the time until a 0/3 showed up? Because a lot of people were sitting around waiting for the group to fill up?

The question is, did you get to your goal quicker with the progress meter or without it? What made the old system feel better, was that you were making an active choice in the process.

The problem was though, that a lot of people didn't know what finishing a run in progress so of course they were happy with the old system. They basically thought the question was:
"Do you want to spend 30 min killing stuff you don't need, or do you want to wait 20 min to see if there is a fresh run?"

When in reality it is more like:
"Do you want to spend 30 min killing stuff you don't need and get a fresh run after that, or do you want to wait 20 min to see if there is a fresh run?"

Ignorance is bliss, which is my reason to think that a lot of people were happy with the x/3 progress meter.
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90 Night Elf Druid
11250
Not at all.

What is the purpose of developing the raid if you want us to just join for the last boss? Just give us a button to press that will reward us VP and Loot if this is the scope of your intentions. Ridiculous!

I am a healer (Always getting dumped on from a great height by Blizz) I set out to run each LFR once a week, as it's the closest i can do to working on rotations, trying out reforges etc. Heroic dungeons are even more face roll than LFR and pointless for that. Hopefully that will help you to see my point of view on this. Please remember that I am also paying to play this game. The big difference now is that Blizz tricked us all into taking out the 12 month subscription, and they don't seem to give 2 hoots anymore.

They seem to feel that they don't need to - because by the time the subscriptions run out they want us all to move over to whatever their new project is. They seem to be winding this down, testing out cross-realm zones so it doesn't feel empty, ready for the day when there will be half as many WoW servers. You see how on release day for the past few expansions there hasn't been enough server capacity to host everyone who wanted to play? That wouldn't happen if they were planning for growth. They have a limited vision for the future, and I don't believe WoW will be much of a part in it

When they wanted to encourage more tanks into LFG the enticed them with extra loot sacks, for us they poke out our eyes and force us to do what they want.
Edited by Dornstorker on 13/12/2012 00:01 GMT
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
11000
12/12/2012 23:45Posted by Dornstorker
What is the purpose of developing the raid if you want us to just join for the last boss?

They don't want us to join us for the last boss, but they do want us to reach the last boss. People leave a LFR group for whatever reason and they have to be replaced for the group to progress. And again, since 5.1 people seem to get into fewer x/3 groups, so that would be counter productive if Blizzard just wanted us to kill the last boss.

12/12/2012 23:45Posted by Dornstorker
When they wanted to encourage more tanks into LFG the enticed them with extra loot sacks, for us they poke out our eyes and force us to do what they want.

The issue there is incentive. I'm doing LFD for the Valor, I'm doing LFR for the loot. So I stick to the end of the LFD. Sure the bag is nice, but the flasks are so easy to get that it's not really an issue if there aren't any flask reward.

EDIT: The instant queue for tanks is the main reason why I join LFD as tanks, the value of that outweighs any gift bag by far.

But since I'm there for the loot in LFR, why stick around after I have killed what I need to? Especially if I have more coins, or another spec that needs gear? I could be mean and just respec, meaning I would stay in group and under perform since I'm not doing the role I'm supposed to, but still help out.
As for coins, sure you could change it so I could spend all my coins on a single LFR boss without killing him multiple times. But after I have done that, I still have no incentive to stay.

So I really don't see how a gift bag helping out on this issue, because those who wanted a quick reward after a LFR had a good opportunity in last patch to join a 2/3 do a quick kill and get some valor. And still Blizzard deemed that there were too many unfinished LFR.
Edited by Elathin on 13/12/2012 09:06 GMT
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90 Night Elf Druid
11250
That isn't what I am saying :)

There are positive ways that they could achieve their objectives, but instead they choose to press-gang us into doing what they want, instead of allowing us to enjoy the game experience as we used to.

When I began playing this game 5 or 6 years ago, it was billed as a social interactive game. The game mechanics were geared towards co-operation. If you saw someone questing nearby you would throw out a buff, if you saw someone overwhelmed in combat, you would chuck out a heal or jump in to help them. I know that WoW has moved on from those days, but there is something to be said for joining a group of people and working your way through an instance to clear it from start to finish.

Perhaps Blizzard ought to be encouraging more of that attitude and discouraging the more modern, mercenary and entirely selfish approach of so many people in the game now. I see it in the dailies where we are sent out time and again to gather limited resources in CRZs. When crowds of people are camping the single spawn of a rare mob, a collectable pet, Galleon, The Darkmoon Rabbit. It's a whole attitude change that's in the game now that is defiantly for the worst
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90 Human Paladin
19140
That isn't what I am saying :)

There are positive ways that they could achieve their objectives, but instead they choose to press-gang us into doing what they want, instead of allowing us to enjoy the game experience as we used to.

When I began playing this game 5 or 6 years ago, it was billed as a social interactive game. The game mechanics were geared towards co-operation. If you saw someone questing nearby you would throw out a buff, if you saw someone overwhelmed in combat, you would chuck out a heal or jump in to help them. I know that WoW has moved on from those days, but there is something to be said for joining a group of people and working your way through an instance to clear it from start to finish.

Perhaps Blizzard ought to be encouraging more of that attitude and discouraging the more modern, mercenary and entirely selfish approach of so many people in the game now. I see it in the dailies where we are sent out time and again to gather limited resources in CRZs. When crowds of people are camping the single spawn of a rare mob, a collectable pet, Galleon, The Darkmoon Rabbit. It's a whole attitude change that's in the game now that is defiantly for the worst


You forgot this you killing all adds near a rare 9the wandering fish rogue guy in dread wastes......) and once you killed the semeingly afk comes to life and snatch the rare kill! Got my second galleon kill (check chest) just de sheer luck of flying and the campers of our servers had 1 person not being able to log and they had to act before horde did so yeah. Its sad to see alway`s a few names on every galleon kill...... When next tier hits suddenly almost nobody but mount collectors will bother for him sigh.
Edited by Lightgoddes on 13/12/2012 15:49 GMT
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