Isn't it about time for purchase orders on the AH!?

90 Gnome Priest
8105
OP

Great idea, I really like it. Nice to see people thinking creatively and putting forward ideas for discussion and development.

AH in MOP is a complete joke. Even commonly available items are prohibitively high. it just looks like an attempt to create a monopoly - with all the price consequences that brings. And as for the guys selling low / mid level green items for 200g you what??


The low lvl greens price got that high when transmog came, it's because a lot of those pieces are hard to farm and therefore "worth" it's price. 2-300 for a good looking transmog is nothing imo, it's when it comes up in 1-2000 it starts to look doubtful
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90 Gnome Warrior
11585
This is actually how the market on EVE Online works.
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24 Gnome Rogue
8430
What about a good ol'
/2 WTB Ghost Iron Ore
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90 Human Death Knight
10655
good idea for transmog items etc
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1 Night Elf Mage
0
Am I the only one who's thinking "Are they saying that WoW players are dumber than people who play other MMOs?" when reading the "it'll make the AH overly complicated" argument?
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90 Human Warrior
5990
the flaw i can see is that when i buy something on AH i want it then and there. I dont want to have to place a purchase order and wait for someone to see it and make their mind up whether they want to sell to me which could take seconds or could take weeks depending on who is looking at my order.

Also, can still control prices, lets say Player A Controls most of the copper ore sold. Players B, C, D, E & F all want to buy copper ore. I can either refuse to sell it to them making them increase there offer over time, or can play them off against each over for my goods

or am i missing something?
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100 Draenei Paladin
13245
the flaw i can see is that when i buy something on AH i want it then and there. I dont want to have to place a purchase order and wait for someone to see it and make their mind up whether they want to sell to me which could take seconds or could take weeks depending on who is looking at my order.


The orders idea won't replace the normal AH, is just an extra thing, so you can still sell and buy anything like you always did, so if you need something now and is available you can buy it right now like always. However, if what you're looking for is currently not available or at a ridiculous price, with this idea you can make an order and have more possibility to obtain what you want, without spamming the trade chat and constantly looking the AH.
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86 Draenei Hunter
2155
I would still have a few concerns though, this would probably bring excessive complexity to the AH, because for example, if you are a seller, you are probably going to end up doing some extra work, not only you will have to check the current AH prices from other sellers (competitors), but you would also check the buyers offers against one another and against the current sellers prices in order to find the option that would benefit you the most.

Buyers would see a similar competition to sellers when they face constant undercutting. This would probably create a certain frustration because when you are a buyer, chances are you need those items more urgently than when you are a seller, since sellers only get gold.
So the sense of urgency from buyers would probably work against the success of this implementation.

Still I think this is a good idea and I’m probably exaggerating a bit when I speculate about the possible consequences. We just need to make sure that ideas are sound before we spend resources on them, we need to be sure that not only they would work, but that enough players would actually benefit and experience better gameplay because of it.
I’ll share the suggestion with the devs, but I suspect this isn’t something new to them, we’ll see.

The list would show the highest buyer as well as the sellers. A single buyer at the top of the list in a different colour showing the best buying price. Then you would know what the current asking price is for both buyers and sellers.

Purchase orders should be set on a timer similar to sales orders. However, it is up to the buyer to watch the market and also determine how badly they want the item(s). Purchase orders can, over time, end up higher than the asking price from sellers if the buyer doesn't keep a check on it. If they want them urgently, they are going to buy at a far better price than the current selling price, presuming of course that they have already bought all the existing stock from the sellers.

This would be a great idea and would save a lot of people, a lot of time. There are a number of times I have gone to the AH to find that what I want isn't there and waited days before someone finally sells it. A lot of people, especially newer players, see an empty line as something nobody wants. A few buy orders would show them that it's in demand.
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94 Blood Elf Paladin
13585
the flaw i can see is that when i buy something on AH i want it then and there. I dont want to have to place a purchase order and wait for someone to see it and make their mind up whether they want to sell to me which could take seconds or could take weeks depending on who is looking at my order.

Also, can still control prices, lets say Player A Controls most of the copper ore sold. Players B, C, D, E & F all want to buy copper ore. I can either refuse to sell it to them making them increase there offer over time, or can play them off against each over for my goods

or am i missing something?

I believe so.

What happens if the AH is empty? You may want your instant items, you won't have. Or those items may be overpriced. Having this option I could put up an order, go to sleep and work, and see the results next day. I'm not losing anything. It would seem that sellers do, for prices could go down, but items don't tend to go for high prices today either.

I don't see how Player A can prevent Players G selling their own ore to B-F instead of listing them. Sure, G will notice that sell price is better, so he can list for a chance instead of a certain sell, yet Player A has to buy them all out to keep up the image of his working market. While B-F are still not interested in his prices. If B-F are hoping for really low prices (and there will be some), they will eventually learn. Just like the guy listing Light Leather for 1000g a stack does learn.

But, how does this argument differ from today? Not at all. There is just a plus option to prevent market domination. It can't be bad.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
8155
Also, can still control prices, lets say Player A Controls most of the copper ore sold. Players B, C, D, E & F all want to buy copper ore. I can either refuse to sell it to them making them increase there offer over time, or can play them off against each over for my goods

or am i missing something?


I think you are missing something here.

Everyone on the realm will be able to see the Purchase Orders! Players X, Y and Z may see those Purchase Orders and be quite happy to go out and farm some copper ore for 30 mins to fulfill all of player B,C,D,E & F's Purchase Orders at the price they are asking...

This diminishes Player A's ability to manipulate the market!
Edited by Daftmonk on 22/12/2012 13:20 GMT
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75 Worgen Hunter
3350
At the end of the day it would just make it easier for bots to shift their large quantities of farmed materials.

Player A: Wants 10 stacks of Ghost Iron Ore at 60g a stack

Player A: Submits a purchase order on the AH for 10 stacks of Ghost Iron Ore and pays 600g up-front.


And what happens if by pure miracle the cost of the item in the AH drops below their price while they are waiting? Is said player not going to be the first one here complaining he got "ripped off"?

What the AH does is represent the true value of any given item. All that would happen is that the AH would diminish to become nothing more than a series of purchase orders and take away any competitiveness in pricing. "Price fixing" comes to mind. If a player wants to buy something at a set price, then he has to wait until the price falls accordingly.

If people want to buy things cheaper than ah prices, then:
What about a good ol'
/2 WTB Ghost Iron Ore

It does exactly what you want.
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100 Draenei Paladin
13245

If people want to buy things cheaper than ah prices, then:
What about a good ol'
/2 WTB Ghost Iron Ore

It does exactly what you want.

Only if you are on a high population realm and you're not asking for too specific things. Yesterday I asked in trade chat all day for a Nightstone to complete my JW daily, nobody answered. With orders I could have put that I want a Nightstone for 50g (even if the value is only 8g) so whoever went on the AH and had a Nightstone would have probably sold it to me.
And what about rare pets and recipes? You can't just stand there an spam the trade chat with everything you want, maybe who has that pet is not even online, or he's not in a city, or he's not looking on the screen and the chat-box is already full. With orders you simply have much more chance to obtain what you want, and this is simply great.
Edited by Ichirei on 22/12/2012 14:19 GMT
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90 Blood Elf Monk
8155
22/12/2012 13:57Posted by Borderlîne
And what happens if by pure miracle the cost of the item in the AH drops below their price while they are waiting? Is said player not going to be the first one here complaining he got "ripped off"?


Well, there are two options:

Option 1:
As some people have mentioned about similar services on other games, the AH could automatically fulfill Purchase Orders when auctions are placed which fall below the amount requested via Purchase Orders. This could effectively curb manipulators from deliberately driving down prices to flip the AH.

Option 2:
Leave the AH so that auction prices can go lower than Purchase Orders, but this probably wouldn't happen that often as most players would prefer to fulfill orders to claim their instant gold. The only reason I can see to go with this option is so that AH manipulators could force down the prices of mats when a botter comes online to sell their stock.

EDIT: but hopefully botters will get more harshly tackled by Blizzard heading into the future!
Edited by Daftmonk on 22/12/2012 15:57 GMT
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90 Pandaren Priest
5050
Indeed, it would seem rather unlogical to me that players would want to sell their items lower, than the price that is offered by the best buy order...

It works incredibly well in GW2, and i'm a big fan of it. And that one is even global!
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94 Blood Elf Paladin
13585
22/12/2012 13:57Posted by Borderlîne
What the AH does is represent the true value of any given item.

Not exactly.
The AH shows those items that have not yet been bought.
Your sentence is a base assumption, that everyone has to follow entering a new market. But there is a huge chance for the following to occur:
- for a period of time, the supply and demand side changes a lot, so the apparent value changes
- you just enter the market of an item with low supply; you're going to find monopolized prices but no buyers at all, until the price drops significantly (and I mean significantly, even 50-90%).

"Sell orders" represent the expected selling price of the seller, incorporating the value of the item, and possibly some profit. (Most of us try to find the markets with the highest profit; we know the value of the item differs from the actual selling price either direction.)
"Buy orders" represent the buying price of the buyer, incorporating the value of the item and possibly some tip.

I believe, neither of these is The Value and neither of these is better than the other.

I agree that people tend to buy items that are around the value or below, and on a proper market it is going to work. Free market is not a proper market however, and WoW is also far from it. (Maybe I'm just misinterpreting the meaning of "free", though.)
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90 Human Paladin
10130
But to be honest I think we would see some sort of reversed undercutting between buyers.
Let’s imagine for example:

Player A: Wants to buy 10 Fight Club at 1337 gold each.
Player B: Sees Player A’s offer and decides he wants to buy 10 Fight Club at 1338 each.
Player C: See’s all the available options and sells to the “highest bidder” = Player B.


Buyers would see a similar competition to sellers when they face constant undercutting. This would probably create a certain frustration because when you are a buyer, chances are you need those items more urgently than when you are a seller, since sellers only get gold.
So the sense of urgency from buyers would probably work against the success of this implementation.


This could be true, but the Purchase Orders require you to put down the gold up-front. This would attract those players more in genuine need of the items/mats as it would not be a valid tactic for those who want to manipulate the market because it would simply tie-up too much of their gold and probably be too time consuming to try and manipulate the Purchase Order market too.

20/12/2012 13:41Posted by Taepsilum
I’ll share the suggestion with the devs, but I suspect this isn’t something new to them, we’ll see.


Thanks Taepsilum, appreciate it.

And please keep posting all your feedback guys appreciate it also, its your feedback that helps Blizz to think about suggestions like this.


this. i'm somewhat liking the idea. i'm on a high pop server and honestly our economy is up and down on a dailys basis due to a select few players using their bank chars to in short buy everything up at a certain price and then relist it. its not something i think is right and for that reason alone i'd personally like to see the AH have a limit of the numbers of items being posted to say 20 per an account with no "cancel and repost function" this system is used in diablo 3 and honestly i like it. its fair sellers get to list items and dont have to put up with 1other player constantly undercutting them.

Its no joke logging on to find you've been undercut on all scrolls by the same person who is lvl 1. but becuase they have 4 million odd gold them losing 50k doesn't effect them.

its make me chuckle when blizzard make the statement that they wish to get people out of the cities to do stuff hence why they removed perks like Have group will travel. and made repping via dailys only yet they utterly refuse to see the issue of a player standing at AH for 10 hours a day doing nothing but buying and selling. why cant /2 actually be used for what its supposed to be used for.

www.theunderminejournal.com

apologies if i cant post actual links, go take a look at your own realms most prolific sellers. currently mine at last update bank char 1703 auctions. whatas chance has anyone else to sell when its obvious this person is just standing their for hours on end.
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90 Undead Monk
8270
I am not sure if it's mentioned, but this also opens for scamming as well.

Say a "buyer" is putting up 200 iron ore up and will buy them for 500 gold, a seller sees that there is 200 iron ore up for sale on AH for only 300 gold. He then buys this and is about to sell them to the "buyer" for a 200 gold profit.

What the seller doesn't know is that the "buyer" is also the seller that had put up the 200 for sale as well. And as soon as he sees that his iron ore got sold, he will just cancel the purchase order and the guy who was looking for a profit, ends up with 200 iron ore that he may have to sell for a lower price than what he paid for it.

I know if such an feature would be implemented, you would need to use caution, but it's one concern that many (newer) players to the market might unknowingly face.
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90 Blood Elf Warrior
10715
I think this would be a great addition!

Especially for items that aren't 'hot' anymore; like older crafting mats. By requesting an item in such a public way, chances are someone has them lying around in the bank (an doesn't bother putting them on the AH anymore), and thus a win-win for both parties involved!
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12445
Just thought I'd add (though I don't know whether it's already been added or not), to those who have complained about the reversed undercutting - a new competition for buyers: In all my WoW years, I have never experienced that there aren't enough sellers to fulfill the needs of the buyers. In fact, most of the times, things get quite difficult to sell because there are way more sellers than buyers.

Hence, unless like 50% of the sellers are extremely greedy, and would stockpile their goods with the risk of the price going down further, I think everyone who puts up an order for a relatively common item will see it fulfilled rather quickly.
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90 Night Elf Warrior
7765
I like the idea that the OP posted. I hope Blizz spend some time looking further into this.
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