Low lvl instances are way to easy

So all these lower lvl instances are way too easy right now. It doesn't matter if its either Deadmines, Ramparts, or Nexus they got no challenge at all. As a disc priest I dont even have to heal in them, I can just go full dps and the party still wouldn't wipe.
They just feel so dull and boring at the moment, no fun factor or challenge at all.

I gotta say some of the reworked instances are nicely done, but if those ''boss'' battles are done in 10-15 seconds whats the point in having a boss battle?

And then you have these people you group up with, they dont TALK. They rush as fast as possible through the instance, like there is no tommorow or something. In these 7/8 instances i have done on this char, only 1 party communicated.

Maybe its a possibility to make heroic versions of those instances for lower lvl's who want a challenge, and get better gear from them. I understand that blizzard's mainly focus is at the lvl 90's but they could atleast do something to make it more challeging. Cause right now the game has no challenge in either world quests, instances, or the unbalanced PVP.

Maybe I sound a bit whiney, but the game has so much more potential then the current state of the game by just adding some little changes.
Whats ur opinion about it?
Edited by Maxmus on 14/12/2012 13:22 GMT
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90 Human Warlock
5605
They are designed to be easy, but they are made even easier by Heirlooms.

Edit: the difficulty level has changed in some instances recently, I don't remember Ramparts being as easy as it is now.
Edited by Dottie on 14/12/2012 12:55 GMT
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90 Orc Warlock
11675
And if you don't use heirlooms people will !@#$ on you for doing lower dps, healing or being not quite as good at tanking.
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- World of Warcraft
90 Worgen Druid
6570
I was in a party yesterday with my lifemate, and not a single person had heirlooms. This was both Scholomance and one of the Scarlet instances (with the one who says "you are like piece of iron".... how'd he even get that accent in so little time?). Now this was all fine and dandy, and it actually felt how I did on my first Druid. But then it was too easy. The Tanks were great, the heals were fantastic (my lifemate had to temp. heal as Shadow and did an amazing job), and the DPS was pretty much the same as an heirloomed party.

Not a good sign.

There is so little difficulty that even dungeons are offputting. I'm not saying they should require HC strategy, but make people think instead of the odd "when he turns into tiny adds, AoE!". Make people go around the room to a safe spot, or interact with objects in the environment to debuff / dispel the boss' positive buffs. I get that Blizzard don't have the time to put into renovating every single dungeon, plus they'd have to balance loom users with non-loom users, and that's a toughie. So I'll give them some slack. I just don't know what the original ideas with these dungeons were except "nuke it. I don't care how you do it, just nuke it".

They're undesirable, but when with a good party they're often a barrel of laughs. And as for that point you made, it's wholly up to the players, not the developers, to make themselves talk.
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90 Pandaren Priest
12790
Sometimes though you do meet nice people in them. But if its all rush as if you had to finish it before you started, then there's no time for being social. And some people dont' want to socialize with strangers. They just want to get leveled.

Dungeons being this easy promotes rush, as there's no need to communicate.

But then the game is made around top level characters, so I guess they are made as requested. Still a bit sad though. You can never have too many friends :-)
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90 Tauren Druid
13100
Hmm, well it's still possible to fail low level dungeons, but only if one or more of your group (purposely) sabotages your run. From a levelling loomed Disc priest's PoV, I've seen anything from a druid tank in a grey quality cloth dress prancing around in cat form, to the entire group LoS-ing me on opposite ends of the room, to the tank pulling two bosses and three rooms worth of mobs at the same time.

People like that can still make things, well ... shall we say, interesting. Only the first joker managed to wipe us, but it got pretty close on the others.

Other than that, yeah low level runs are usually a breeze. But on the runs I had without any jokers, I've had pretty friendly and communicative people. Maybe I was lucky?
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90 Human Mage
8390
They should be easy...
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Community
The problem with lower level dungeons is that they are used by many players as an alternative to questing for levelling up.
So they need to be somewhat similar in terms of xp/time, otherwise players would probably skip dungeons altogether and simply quest, only a very small minority would probably be joining dungeons for the sake of curiosity, and some loot.

There’s also the trick about making dungeons easy enough for the less experienced players (new players levelling up for the first time). This becomes particularly important and we need to pay more attention to it whenever we release a new expansion since we usually tend to reduce the amount of xp needed to level up on lower levels or we usually adapt it in a way so that levelling becomes faster on previous expansions’ content.
This has the inconvenient of making players less prepared since they have less time to get to know their characters and their new abilities that constantly unlock while levelling up.

Still, I agree, some do seem a bit too easy, but I don’t know if I would feel exactly the same way if I had just started playing WoW and ran dungeons while levelling up my very first character.

14/12/2012 12:42Posted by Maxmus
Maybe its a possibility to make heroic versions of those instances for lower lvl's who want a challenge, and get better gear from them. I understand that blizzard's mainly focus is at the lvl 90's but they could atleast do something to make it more challeging.

That’s one possible solution; it’s all a matter of priorities and the amount of resources that we have at our disposal.

Still, while we always strive to make the game appealing and have something for every kind of player to do and enjoy in-game, it seems to me that the amount of players that would actually be running such dungeons would be very small, I suspect most players, even those that would enjoy a more challenging version of the dungeons, would probably still take the easy route simply because it’s there, it’s available and it will make them level up faster. Also, the queues would probably be long and players would tend to cancel them and re-queue for the normal version.

Actually even right now, depending on the level of your character, you should be able to queue for the heroic versions of certain instances, for example, if you’re level 80 you should be able to queue for Cataclysm heroic and normal dungeons, it’s up to you if you want to queue for the heroic version, but I suspect the system only allows you to queue them at very specific levels. Some improvements have also been made regarding allowing more players into older heroics. BC heroics for example, used to require specific reputation levels to queue for the heroic versions, those restrictions have all been removed. (there are no more keys) This change actually happened during Cataclysm.
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90 Human Priest
10265
You could still increase the damage mobs do in instances without increasing their health (which would mean it would take similar amounts of time).

I did all of the TBC normal dungeons (queued as a healer) with disc spamming smite/penance and the atonement heals were enough to keep the entire party up, even on bosses. This was nice in a way, because it ment I could level quickly, but took away the point of being a healer.
Edited by Æíì on 14/12/2012 16:27 GMT
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
13990


Still, I agree, some do seem a bit too easy, but I don’t know if I would feel exactly the same way if I had just started playing WoW and ran dungeons while levelling up my very first character.



I disagree, when I first started playing 6 years ago on my warrior, leveling, exploring and doing dungeons was challenging and exciting, I loved it.
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90 Troll Druid
13520
The problem with lower level dungeons is that they are used by many players as an alternative to questing for levelling up.
So they need to be somewhat similar in terms of xp/time, otherwise players would probably skip dungeons altogether and simply quest, only a very small minority would probably be joining dungeons for the sake of curiosity, and some loot.

There’s also the trick about making dungeons easy enough for the less experienced players (new players levelling up for the first time). This becomes particularly important and we need to pay more attention to it whenever we release a new expansion since we usually tend to reduce the amount of xp needed to level up on lower levels or we usually adapt it in a way so that levelling becomes faster on previous expansions’ content.
This has the inconvenient of making players less prepared since they have less time to get to know their characters and their new abilities that constantly unlock while levelling up.

Still, I agree, some do seem a bit too easy, but I don’t know if I would feel exactly the same way if I had just started playing WoW and ran dungeons while levelling up my very first character.


You said it yourself, the difference between "back then" and now, is that now everything right from entry into the game, til you hit you're first normal raid is designed in difficulty to be completed by a child still learning his / her ABC.., "back then" it wasn't and players communicated to overcome "obstacles" and learn where they might have gone wrong, these past few years there's been no need to communicate ever.., and when these types of players eventually hit the end-game it's "to late".

"Back then" there was two benefits to the curve as you went up the ladder, one being you were "experienced" with your character, and the community in general was a great deal more supportive.., with everything being so easy as it's been the past years, seasoned players will often not take time out to help new players, and I for one can't say I'm surprised as I'm one of those.., to me with everything being as easy as it is per default, it constitutes lazyness a'la extreme when I hear players ask about basic things concerning a character they've leveled from 1-90.

The next side effect all this "we will hold your hand til the end" design had, was / is the amount of complaints, and more often then not.., stupid complaints which is more demands are escalating into the extreme, not one day have gone by since MoP where a new thread about how unfair everything is haven't been created.
While you had that "back then" also, it was miniscule compared to today.., partly because you always had the community working together.

I'm extremely curious to know where you got the idea from, that new players were having such a hard time to warrent the scale being pushed firmly through the buttom of the difficulty scale.
Particularly because this shift of the ages came right after TBC which was the "highlight" of the game, and since it was growing rapidly I'd dare say the person who made the call to dump the overall quality should have been fired years ago. (Maybe an analyst with no degree)
Edited by Banzhe on 14/12/2012 16:59 GMT
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90 Pandaren Monk
10120
Well, ye they are suppost to be easy... but standing in fire does like 10 damage in the Deadmines first boss, it's laughable...
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60 Gnome Warlock
11185
Low level instances are easy enough so bots can play through them...
and this is just plain wrong.
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MVP
90 Gnome Priest
18540
I think it's fine that low level dungeons are super easy, and super fast to get through.
I sort of love using low level elixirs, a ton of heirloom items, crafted stuff with enchants, and anything else, and then just queue up and annihilate the Deadmines like there was no tomorrow. It's fun.

I do miss a slight increase in the difficulty curve as you progress from instance to instance.
It's very difficult to see a difference between the difficulty (and the things you're being "taught") in the early dungeons like the Deadmines and Shadowfang Keep, and then later dungeons like Maraudon and Zul'Farrak. It's more or less possible to just tank&spank your way through all of them, without much care for boss abilities or whatever. And that's a bit sad. I don't mind the fact that you can stand in the fire in the Deadmines without dying. That's cool. It would be unforgiving on newcomers if it was any different. However, when you get to the Sunken Temple, Eranikus' Acid Breath should be something you should try to avoid, and not something you can completely ignore. That doesn't mean you have to die to it, but it should at least be so impactful that the boss feels like an actual boss with different interesting abilities, and not a trash mob that you tank&spank.

What I would love though, sort of from a leveling perspective, is to get normal mode versions of dungeons like The Magister's Terrace, Forge of Souls, Halls of Reflection, End Time, The Well of Eternity, and so on. They're the really cool instances that would actually be interesting to play through whilst leveling up, because there's more depth to them. But because they're all max-level, heroic mode instance, you never get to do them anymore (because you just move on to the next expansion's content whenever you get max level).
So I would love if Blizzard would make normal mode versions of them, and perhaps lower their level down to 65, 75, and 83, respectively, so you could run them whilst leveling. Because they do provide that slightly more engaging dungeon experience than Hellfire Ramparts, Utgarde Keep, or The Stonecore — or the Wailing Caverns.
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59 Troll Hunter
3860
The problem with lower level dungeons is that they are used by many players as an alternative to questing for levelling up.
So they need to be somewhat similar in terms of xp/time, otherwise players would probably skip dungeons altogether and simply quest, only a very small minority would probably be joining dungeons for the sake of curiosity, and some loot.

There’s also the trick about making dungeons easy enough for the less experienced players (new players levelling up for the first time). This becomes particularly important and we need to pay more attention to it whenever we release a new expansion since we usually tend to reduce the amount of xp needed to level up on lower levels or we usually adapt it in a way so that levelling becomes faster on previous expansions’ content.
This has the inconvenient of making players less prepared since they have less time to get to know their characters and their new abilities that constantly unlock while levelling up.

Still, I agree, some do seem a bit too easy, but I don’t know if I would feel exactly the same way if I had just started playing WoW and ran dungeons while levelling up my very first character.

Maybe its a possibility to make heroic versions of those instances for lower lvl's who want a challenge, and get better gear from them. I understand that blizzard's mainly focus is at the lvl 90's but they could atleast do something to make it more challeging.

That’s one possible solution; it’s all a matter of priorities and the amount of resources that we have at our disposal.

Still, while we always strive to make the game appealing and have something for every kind of player to do and enjoy in-game, it seems to me that the amount of players that would actually be running such dungeons would be very small, I suspect most players, even those that would enjoy a more challenging version of the dungeons, would probably still take the easy route simply because it’s there, it’s available and it will make them level up faster. Also, the queues would probably be long and players would tend to cancel them and re-queue for the normal version.

Actually even right now, depending on the level of your character, you should be able to queue for the heroic versions of certain instances, for example, if you’re level 80 you should be able to queue for Cataclysm heroic and normal dungeons, it’s up to you if you want to queue for the heroic version, but I suspect the system only allows you to queue them at very specific levels. Some improvements have also been made regarding allowing more players into older heroics. BC heroics for example, used to require specific reputation levels to queue for the heroic versions, those restrictions have all been removed. (there are no more keys) This change actually happened during Cataclysm.


No need for "heroic" low level dungeons :E

Up damage done, health, and XP reward by ~30% or more for every Elite mob under lvl 80.
I can solo dungeons my level as a tank, feels very stupid.
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90 Goblin Hunter
0
Of course they should be easy, it's the first set of dungeons you would hit at level 15 and you don't have that many spells available to you at that time.

Heirlooms just make them even easier and for a challenge, try it with just quest gear. Tried that once and it is a bit more of a challenge really as sometimes you don't get gear for your class so your ilvl is a bit low to begin with.
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90 Worgen Rogue
5785
14/12/2012 16:16Posted by Taepsilum
Actually even right now, depending on the level of your character, you should be able to queue for the heroic versions of certain instances, for example, if you’re level 80 you should be able to queue for Cataclysm heroic and normal dungeons, it’s up to you if you want to queue for the heroic version, but I suspect the system only allows you to queue them at very specific levels. Some improvements have also been made regarding allowing more players into older heroics. BC heroics for example, used to require specific reputation levels to queue for the heroic versions, those restrictions have all been removed. (there are no more keys) This change actually happened during Cataclysm


Ummmm, I hate to break it to you but heroics aren't hard..... at all lol
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90 Troll Mage
14275

No need for "heroic" low level dungeons :E

Up damage done, health, and XP reward by ~30% or more for every Elite mob under lvl 80.
I can solo dungeons my level as a tank, feels very stupid.


This SO much. Maybe you could even do something like 100% more dmg and health, and 120% more XP to make up for wipes / increased drinking time (Right now healers don't have to drink). This way dungeons wouldn't be total faceroll while still being a good source of XP.
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90 Undead Priest
8135
14/12/2012 16:16Posted by Taepsilum
There’s also the trick about making dungeons easy enough for the less experienced players (new players levelling up for the first time).


That's a load of crap, low level dungeons were relatively challenging but still perfectly manageable until everything was nerfed at the end of TBC and I don't think I had ever seen anyone, new or not, complaining about the low level dungeons.
Now they're nothing more than free loot corridors and the same philosophy is applied to "end game" 5 men content.
At the moment dungeons are not fun, challenging or even well designed, give me a Shattered Halls, BRD or a WC over any of the post TBC junk gear centrals any time of the day.
I'd understand if the design decision was to make heroic dungeons way harder than regulars, like release Cata, but with your not so recent policy of "everyone must have access to everything or their feelings will be hurt" you ended up with bad content no one is interrested in.

TL;DR

Make interresting and challenging content for small groups and even the people you think are not able to handle challenge will be happy and no I do not care for challenge modes because they keep the terrible general design of MoP.
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