Charms and repetition of content

90 Blood Elf Paladin
8385
27/12/2012 04:56Posted by Matarack
someone who refuses to use a duel talent option for dps to speed things up in solo content


I do know the Blue Poster say I am Holy / Holy and unreasonable to have this.

I am in fact Holy / Prot - the Blue Poster did not bother to check this.

I carry Holy PVE armor - Holy PVP armor - Prot PVE armor.

You are a priest - your healing armor is *absolute fine* for Shadow Priest to quest with. You have one armor set only to maintain. I have 3 already and the Blue Poster solution shall require a 4th and constant respeccing (and to play a class I do not enjoy).

It is a game breaker for me for sure xD
Edited by Amrissa on 27/12/2012 12:48 GMT
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90 Goblin Priest
13465
Actually it's not Amrissa, you can easily do daily quest content in prot spec while wearing holy outfit.., if you still feel that isn't an option (Not sure why you'd think it isn't, but hey), then there's the option to team up with some one.
You'd probably get it done even faster in that scenario due to vengeance ramping up quite fast, heck.., you could even spend 300g to buy some green items from the vendor in Dread Wastes with Str on them, and use that in prot spec, that fore sure would simply destroy anything you come across while doing dailies!

Simply saying that X isn't fun, or that you refuse grouping with a friend to go through content can't be taken as serious, or even valid argument, as you could in theory apply that to any kind of content then.., and in that case, every single piece of content could be regarded as a block;-)
Edited by Matarack on 27/12/2012 17:15 GMT
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1) What link has daily questing got to raiding? In special as only source for charms?
The factions represent the inhabitants of Pandaria, who are fighting the Mogu presence and trying to rid themselves of the overall looming threat of the Sha.


And thats the argument why daily quests could give raid advantages? And not only charms, but also recipes and vp gear? A little bit overpowered, or dont you think so?


Pet battles have no representation in that scenario anywhere, and since you already get rewards for doing dungeons, there's really not a lot more to say to it.., unless you want to double dip, or even triple as is the case!


Pet battles are no pve component, they are a minigame in wow. A funny one, but still a minigame. Even daily quests are more logical, because they are part of the pve progression.. while pet battles are completely standalone and a mix of both pve and pvp. Should it also offer honor if you manage to beat another pet battle player? Would you feel that would be correct?


2) And do you generally like dull work as like daily questing and grinding?
I'm confused as to who you think you represent.., what's dull to you, isn't dull to me, and I know for a fact that there are others who aren't thinking in the same lines as you are.


About your confusion: I just represent myself. I am an alt player, and play around 10 characters simultaneously. I always liked to play multiple chars with multiple roles, because it's my personal definition of fun.

In mop i only play three chars actively, as my time doesnt allow me to play more. I play this druid, a priest and a shaman. All mainly as healers.

Unfortunately blizzard forgot about players like me on designing mop. I have to repeat every daily questing chain again if i would like to equip my chars and not only be dependend on luck in the lfr. The buff for patch 5.1 isnt enough.. it's just extremenly tedious to do the same daily quests over and over and over again.. and it's just no fun.

And as i said, the "is not requiried"-Argument already had been invalidated.


3) Is it really yours to do the same dumb quests every day again? And do you love to kill npcs for the wrathion quest chain?
I don't understand your first question there, sorry!


Sorry for my english, i am german. And try to improve my english all the time :)

I meant: Do you really have fun doing the same dumb quests over and over again? And do you really like pure grinding for the wrathion quest?


Do I love to kill npc's for the Wrathion quest.., I can honestly say yes to that, just as much as I'd love for every daily to be gatherings, or healing dailies like there is in Golden Lotus or Serpents, and the reason for it, is quite simple..


So you love grinding? Really? Cant imagine why. What skill do you need to permanently kill the same mobs over and over again? I dont think this is fun at all. It's a brainless activity, as if you would work at a construction line.

And as i said, i am not interested in doing a 2nd job in this game, i rather would quit.


I understand the need for a little gating in content, otherwise you'd burn through content instantly as was the case of Cataclysm, that left 3 million players trailing, and honestly I was considering quitting also for good, as did a lot of the players I know, because everything was being handed to everyone no matter what they did.., or even if they did things absolutely horrible.


First of all, cataclysm did fail because the heroic dungeon difficulty at start was a pain for most pugs, so was the first raid tier. It was catered to a player group that infact was a minority. The number of players stabilized when blizzard reimplemented the wotlk model of heroics and accessible raids.

Second, gating gear is ok, as long you get multiple ways to get thru those gates. In Mop you just got one. One single method. Questing. A thing people wont like to do that much anymore after they went 90. Tell me, how much is it worth to become 90 in mop?

For me nothing. Because i know: Hey, there is this real big brick wall of 5.0 daily questing if i would like to be able to gain gear not only by rng..


4) Or do you just like it because it's a brick wall for casual gamers?
The "brand" casual is abused and completely wrong in this context, what represents a casual to you could be someone who refuses to use a duel talent option for dps to speed things up in solo content, it could be someone refusing to make / join a party for specific content such as dailies.


Just lets use the traditional definition of the word "casual", wont we? Playing some hours a week.


The block as you describe it, only exist in your mind because you're expecting to breeze through everything in a week.., and preferably on multiple characters I'd imagine.
(Basing that on your replies)-


Then you just didnt read my replies. I asked to add alternatives to daily questing.

Ignoring that over and over wont help you really much. Try to find arguments, yes?

I try to get that to your attention by quoting what i would like in all different font styles:

I ask to add alternatives to daily questing for reputation, charms and recipes.
I ask to add alternatives to daily questing for reputation, charms and recipes.
I ask to add alternatives to daily questing for reputation, charms and recipes.

And finally a mix that your surely wont skip it by error:
I ask to add alternatives to daily questing for reputation, charms and recipes.

Hope you got that now.


but since you're on the subject.., what is it exactly that's blocking you in current content, and in what way?


Imagine you like alts. Imagine you would have to do all those quests multiple times. I currently only do them on my Druid, because i burned out after i started them on my priest and my shaman. 500 bug brains just were a little bit too much. So were shared quest items with other chars..

I think you probably get my problem. And hey, dont try the "not required"-argument anymore, wont you?


Something not being fun isn't an argument, fun is a relative term.


I think it's the best argument you could find for a game. And yes, this is a game. And no second life. And no job. I come home every day after 9-10 hours of work just to find a grind or dull daily quests? Nah, then i rather would do something else than playing this 2nd job.

Edit: Oh, and before i forget that one: Zarhym did answer the question, if there will be new 5 man dungeons with 5.2 with the answer "No". Not that i said that.
Edited by Nessaya on 27/12/2012 19:28 GMT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8385
27/12/2012 17:10Posted by Matarack
Actually it's not Amrissa, you can easily do daily quest content in prot spec while wearing holy outfit


You have mis read. I already do possess Prot Armor. I carry :

Holy PVE armor. Holy PVP armor. Prot PVE armor. The suggestion to collect and maintain a fourth armor set (for ret) is not practical, not fun (for I dislike either role - prot or ret), and not supported in game (we can have dual talent trees - I am Holy / Prot - I can not take Ret also)

27/12/2012 18:55Posted by Nessaya
I think it's the best argument you could find for a game.


It is the only argument - if it is not fun there is no reason to play.
Edited by Amrissa on 27/12/2012 20:32 GMT
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90 Goblin Priest
13465
Nessaya;

In my eyes it seems you want everything to be mini games which was the case of Cataclysm, in order to facilitate easy and extremely easy purple pixelation of your 10 characters.
Blizzard didn't forget about "your kind" of players in MoP, they just decided that not everything should be about "your kind".
Could also be that I'm looking at it wrong, and that you just expect a brand spanking new game every time you decide to play a different character?- I can't tell which it is looking through your replies thus far.

While you no doubt had fun with Cataclysm since you could get everything you wanted over a short period of time, it also left a huge part of the total player base with absolutely nothing to do, but continously roll alt upon alt, which isn't fun to everyone. (including me)

Do you think blizzard lost 3 million players because Cataclysm was great and fun?

Dailies are a specific type of content that casual players can invest in over time (since they have no progression path that requires as fast as possible run down), they do have character progression yes, but complaining about not having time to do daily content while having 10 characters albeit "only" playing 3 of them active now, is for the lack of a better word.., silly!

Raid content was and have always been designed for players with a focused agenda, but because of the twist that was made to WoW after TBC and opening up everything for the true casual players, you're now trying to turn the table so everything should be designed to fit your type of fun. (read entry)
That will eventually lead straight back to Cataclysm, or worse.., meaning blizzard will lose more then 3 million players.

Questing, dailies, scenario's, pet battles, LFR > eventually pugs I guess, are all types of content designed for casual players.., the issue with your type of casual player, is that they can't seem to accept that character building shouldn't happen over night, or when to stop demanding changes should be made.

I'm not saying raiders are different, but looking at cold hard facts these days, raiders have two types of content now, which is Challenge modes & raids, since clearing the daily content was and always will be brute forced to get to what matters..., and I haven't seen any threads in MoP where a proper raider demands that the game be changed so there's less content for casuals, or changed so the whole of Azeroth & Pandaria can go back to city dweling while waiting on their prices from some automated process.

Amrissa;

I don't know what to say honestly, I'm stunned and quite literally shocked, so I'll leave it at that..
Edited by Matarack on 27/12/2012 21:12 GMT
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In my eyes it seems you want everything to be mini games which was the case of Cataclysm, in order to facilitate easy and extremely easy purple pixelation of your 10 characters.


I ask to add alternatives to daily questing for reputation, charms and recipes.
I ask to add alternatives to daily questing for reputation, charms and recipes.
I ask to add alternatives to daily questing for reputation, charms and recipes.

Seems i have to quote that again. In your complete absence of arguments, you even repeat your dumb stereotype. I would like to ask you to stop trolling, and at least try to counter some of the arguments instead repeating "u only wunt free epix, wunt u?".

Learn to discuss, would you?
Edited by Nessaya on 27/12/2012 21:48 GMT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8385
27/12/2012 21:41Posted by Nessaya
I would like to ask you to stop trolling, and at least try to counter some of the arguments instead repeating "u only wunt free epix, wunt u?


+1
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8385
Amrissa;

I don't know what to say honestly, I'm stunned and quite literally shocked, so I'll leave it at that..


Yes, please do =)
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90 Night Elf Druid
11700
19/12/2012 16:52Posted by Ríkku
You're not at all forced in the slightest. In fact, all the charms do is give you a bonus roll. It's not mandatory for loot, or for raiding.


It's a mandatory if you want to be a top notch raider,and you know it.


If you want to be a top notch raider, it's mandatory to work for it. This includes doing things you don't like, and you know it. You knew it before you decided to be a top notch raider aswell. So stop the bloody complaints.
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It's a mandatory if you want to be a top notch raider,and you know it.


If you want to be a top notch raider, it's mandatory to work for it. This includes doing things you don't like, and you know it. You knew it before you decided to be a top notch raider aswell. So stop the bloody complaints.


Yes! Stop complaining! Or do you even dare to want to be able to do anything else than tedious daily quests? You want to make the game more fun? How could your dare?
[/sarcasm]

And no, its not just top raiders. It's also alt players like me, or healers and tank speccers.. it's a lot of people, and some even just dont have fun in dailies.
Edited by Nessaya on 27/12/2012 22:37 GMT
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90 Goblin Priest
13465

In my eyes it seems you want everything to be mini games which was the case of Cataclysm, in order to facilitate easy and extremely easy purple pixelation of your 10 characters.


I ask to add alternatives to daily questing for reputation, charms and recipes.
I ask to add alternatives to daily questing for reputation, charms and recipes.
I ask to add alternatives to daily questing for reputation, charms and recipes.

Seems i have to quote that again. In your complete absence of arguments, you even repeat your dumb stereotype. I would like to ask you to stop trolling, and at least try to counter some of the arguments instead repeating "u only wunt free epix, wunt u?".

Learn to discuss, would you?


26/12/2012 09:44Posted by Nessaya
Can we please get another way to farm these charms.. Anything! Ill run laps throug stormwind.. Just dont "force" me to do more dailys!


They plan to add pet battles as a way to gain charms.

Seems they mix up mini games with pve-progression.. a little bit scary.

I would like to add charms to the following activities:

1.) Dungeon Runs (1 Charm per run, capped)
2.) Daily Quests (.. as usual)
3.) Scenario (1 Charm per Scenario, capped)
3.) Raids (1 Charm per boss, capped) for all difficulties

I would like to add reputation to the following activities:

1.) Dungeon bosses which fit to the faction (Shado Pan Monastry = Shado Pan, Temple of Niazuaho = Klaxxi, Mogushan Palace = Golden Lotus and others), capped as well
2.) Raid bosses which fit (We kill the empress.. what about reputation for the klaxxi?, we kill Feng in Mogu'Shan Vaults.. what about reputation for the Golden Lotus?), capped, available for lfr, normal and heroic. As more difficult, as bigger the gain.
3.) Scenarios (a fixed rate per scenario for the faction that fits best to the scenario content)
4.) Daily Quests (as usual)

I would like to cap the reputation and charms to the half of the maximum available thru daily questing for the other way, so you would have at least do two the options (as like: Scenarios and dungeons, or Dungeons and Raids).. You could avoid daily questing, if you like (thats what i mean by "option").

I would like to add recipe drops to dungeons, to raids and as a guaranteed gain from daily questing.

And to support alt players i would like to make reputation grinds account wide. I would like to be able to play my alts again.. and not have to play one single class because the devs forgot us in their concept.. ("gc only plays his gnome warrior, nothing else! so why alts?")

On a large scale i would replace daily quests by epic quest chains.

That would help to make the progression path way more diversified.


No, what you're asking for is a return of Cataclysm 100% with more on top, as in path of least resistance, with some guaranteed extra's!
As for learning to debate?

You must be joking! Several times have I offered arguments as to why you present complete nonsense n' invalid points, but I'll also stop with you before you have a complete meltdown.
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86 Draenei Shaman
8535
If you are arguing that it's bad design that you're expected to do damage to defeat your foes (which is what you do on daily quests and scenarios) then I have the feeling we're just disagreeing on a fundamental level: what makes this game an (MMO)RPG.

You can't heal your foes to death (at least not yet), so if you don't want to DPS but want to do dailies, nothing short of divine intervention will help you solve your case.


Would it not be possible to have *some* dailies based on the spec someone is in, eg: some of -cloud serpents are based on secondary professions, couldn't some of the quests be healing or tanking quests? ie: you go to quest giver and get quest according to spec you are in - no double dipping by switching specs.

You have two talent specializations. Why not have one for DPS? Even if it's a different healing spec, do you really need it at every single moment of the day? It's your choice to go with two healing specs, and that obviously comes with a downside (just as a tank that decides to go with two different tanking specs and argues his DPS is low on that content)

Proceeding to argue that because you run with a dual healing spec there's no content you can do is not going to get you very far because the answer is simple: use a DPS spec for that content.


However for some classes, thinking specifically monk here, in order to go dps and not have it grind as much as it does in healing spec you need an entirely different set of gear ie: agility vs intellect. Switching "stances" doesn't sufficiently help improve the dps to the point it would be for other classes. eg: druid, priest, shaman can switch spec and do very good dps without having to change gear as its intellect gear for both healing and dps specs. (never played pally so not sure about them).
Edited by Levva on 28/12/2012 01:26 GMT
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You must be joking! Several times have I offered arguments as to why you present complete nonsense n' invalid points, but I'll also stop with you before you have a complete meltdown.


So you think a full quote followed by a completely different summary to what i wrote in that posting will help you in this discussion?

And you even repeat your stereotype, which seems to be your only invalid argument thruout the whole discussion?

Well.. i think its really pretty useless to discuss with you on that topic.

I would have liked something like arguments, why daily questing should be the only source for four different pve rewards (recipes, charms, valor points, reputation as gate for valor gear), while other components only offer two. As like dungeons and lfr, giving only items on rng and points, as like scenarios, which only offer one single end reward and some vp as daily reward.. as if blizzard did not like people to do them. I think scenarios should be buffed and offer a guaranteed item at its end.

Cataclysm failed, because blizzard did do it wrong at the end and at the start. They made 5 man dungeons and first tier raids in catyclysm way too difficult for the majority of gamers , in special pugs. At the end it failed because blizzard just delivered no content at all.. for 7 months people had to run the same raid over and over again..

What would i expect from blizzard to solve that?

To add tons of quests because it's easy to implement content? Or to add more content thruout the line?

Could i expect that they add more dungeons, more raids, more quests.. or just that they build meter high brickwalls built onto daily quests only a minority of players really likes thruout one full expansion?

Could i expect that they double the content for all gaming styles, or that they just halve the benefit from dungeons and raids to force people to invest more time into playing it?

I want to ask blizzard to do their work. I want to ask them to make a funny game. And fun does not mean one single gaming style called daily questing which is easy to implement and even mandatory by gating the complete vp gear thru it, if you want to earn gear..

Blizzard took the easy way, as if the developers looked for the most easy content to add as much time consuming content as possible.. "Just add 10 daily quests, this will keep people playing for one month".

But hey, this wont work on a large scale, sorry. No new 5 mans for 5.2? Replacing it by daily quests and Scenarios which are easy to implement? And then trying to tell the people you do that all "because you dont want people to catch up that fast"?

What kind of fairy tale is that?
Edited by Nessaya on 28/12/2012 15:41 GMT
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100 Night Elf Druid
9690
27/12/2012 19:48Posted by Amrissa
Actually it's not Amrissa, you can easily do daily quest content in prot spec while wearing holy outfit


You have mis read. I already do possess Prot Armor. I carry :

Holy PVE armor. Holy PVP armor. Prot PVE armor. The suggestion to collect and maintain a fourth armor set (for ret) is not practical, not fun (for I dislike either role - prot or ret), and not supported in game (we can have dual talent trees - I am Holy / Prot - I can not take Ret also)

I think it's the best argument you could find for a game.


It is the only argument - if it is not fun there is no reason to play.


The dailies are doable as a Protection paladin, you don't have to switch to Ret fot them... so actually you just have to switch to your Prot spec and go. Yes, I understand that you don't like it, but you have to do damage and that's not a Holy paladin's job (and you still refuse to group with someone).
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